Hot Stove Thread 2011-2012

[Brad]

Don't know if I mentioned this on the other thread on Gary but on Friday Strawberry said he wished he had lived his life like Carter's. Gooden also said that the last time he and Gary talked a couple of months, Carter told him to keep fighting.

On the airwaves, fans told stories about how they met Carter at this or that occasion and how Gary spent time at length talking to them. It was obvious, as some one said, that he not only had a hall of fame career but that he lived a hall of fame live.

The impact that he had on ordinary fans' lives was quite remarkeable.

[Tim McG]

Great news for us Giants fans:

Buster Posey is back and taking pitches during Spring Training

[Brad]

Great news for us Giants fans:

Buster Posey is back and taking pitches during Spring Training

Good news for baseball fans

[Dave James]

Apparently, the A's have signed Manny Ramirez. They must be thinking he'll be a great role model for Yeonis Cespedes.

Best reaction I've seen so far is from Mike Purdy of the San Joe Mercury News: That's how I feel right now about the people who are excited about this Manny Ramirez deal with the A's. They are rubberneckers. And he is the car crash. Or he will be, soon enough.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Dave James

[paul secor]

Hard to believe that he would want to come back - and that any team would want him.

[Brad]

Assuming he's clean, I doubt he has anything left, including his self respect.

[Chalupa]

ESPN is reporting that Braun's PED suspension has been overturned on a technicality. If, and I stress IF, that is true then he's a cheater and a weasel.

[paul secor]

Even if he got cleared on a technicality, he'll still have the stigma hanging over him. But that doesn't mean much to today's athletes. Self respect is a thing of the past.

Edited February 24, 2012 by paul secor

[JSngry]

The possibility still exists of a false positive due to the failure to get the recommended double sample (if I'm remembering it right). But that would mean that MLB would have to admit to even more incompetence than they're admitting to now, and Braun would still not be completely cleared.

There's really no winning scenario here...

[Tim McG]

The possibility still exists of a false positive due to the failure to get the recommended double sample (if I'm remembering it right). But that would mean that MLB would have to admit to even more incompetence than they're admitting to now, and Braun would still not be completely cleared.

There's really no winning scenario here...

There never is with this stuff.

[Chalupa]

The possibility still exists of a false positive due to the failure to get the recommended double sample (if I'm remembering it right). But that would mean that MLB would have to admit to even more incompetence than they're admitting to now, and Braun would still not be completely cleared.

There's really no winning scenario here...

Point of clarification - The sample in question wasn't from the first test - it was from Braun's 2nd test. The first test had a result of 20-1 testosterone level which triggered a need for the 2nd test. According to ESPN the 2nd sample was tested and it too came back positive for testosterone.

Although MLB officials would not comment on the record, sources say they are still convinced that the sample tested came from Braun, and that the positive test result was correct. They emphasize that the FedEx package that arrived in the Montreal laboratory was sealed three times with tamper-proof seals: one on the box, one on a plastic bag inside the box and again on the vial that contained the urine. The lab chief, an MLB source told ESPN.com, testified that the urine was not tainted, that it was appropriate for testing and that it tested positive for testosterone.

http://espn.go.com/e...lb-drug-testing

What's also interesting is that in his appeal to the arbitrator Braun's lawyers didn't argue that the sample had been contaminated or that the test result was a false positive. They just argued that protocol hadn't been strictly followed.

Edited February 24, 2012 by J.H. Deeley

[JSngry]

ESPN is reporting that National League MVP Ryan Braun, who last season led the Milwaukee Brewers to their first division title in nearly three decades, has tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug and faces a 50-game suspension if the initial finding is upheld.

Wow.

What an asshole.

So should the baseball writers take away Braun's 2011 MVP award?? My gut says yes, but I wonder if doing so that it would create more of a problem then already exists.

I'm also hearing that the testing process mandates splitting a sample in two and then take testing each half separately to protect against a false positive, and that Braun's other half came back negative.

If this is true, ESPN reported prematurely and extremely irresponsibly.

The possibility still exists of a false positive due to the failure to get the recommended double sample (if I'm remembering it right). But that would mean that MLB would have to admit to even more incompetence than they're admitting to now, and Braun would still not be completely cleared.

There's really no winning scenario here...

Point of clarification - The sample in question wasn't from the first test - it was from Braun's 2nd test. The first test had a result of 20-1 testosterone level which triggered a need for the 2nd test. According to ESPN the 2nd sample was tested and it too came back positive for testosterone.

Although MLB officials would not comment on the record, sources say they are still convinced that the sample tested came from Braun, and that the positive test result was correct. They emphasize that the FedEx package that arrived in the Montreal laboratory was sealed three times with tamper-proof seals: one on the box, one on a plastic bag inside the box and again on the vial that contained the urine. The lab chief, an MLB source told ESPN.com, testified that the urine was not tainted, that it was appropriate for testing and that it tested positive for testosterone.

http://espn.go.com/e...lb-drug-testing

What's also interesting is that in his appeal to the arbitrator Braun's lawyers didn't argue that the sample had been contaminated or that the test result was a false positive. They just argued that protocol hadn't been strictly followed.

Not sure if splitting one sample in half and taking two separate samples are the same thing, but it does look bad for Braun that both came back positive, assuming that the second one was split.

Still, rules is rules, and if the enforcers of the rules cannot follow their own rules, they too must face consequences.

[Dan Gould]

Still, rules is rules, and if the enforcers of the rules cannot follow their own rules, they too must face consequences.

From this article, I don't see how you determine the rules weren't followed.

After a thorough review of the joint drug agreement between Major League Baseball and its Players Association — a document that is conveniently available in PDF form on MLB.com — I’m not so sure that Das came to the right conclusion.

Braun’s argument during his January appeal in New York City was that the courier who collected his urine made a number of against-protocol moves after leaving the testing area. But were mistakes really made?

This article, to me at least, makes it clear that there was no violation whatsoever of the "rules". But it does remind me that the player's union has a long history of "winning" when they get in front of an "arbitrator". It seems this is another example.

[JSngry]

Maybe the info was bad, but the earlier bit about the samples being split to protect against false positives was reported by whoever it was who was "on top" of this story while it was hot. If that wasn't followed, then that's a problem for MLB. If it was followed for the second sample, then that's a problem for Braun. And if there's any ambiguity at all in the process, or even in this one case, then that's bad for everybody. Even worse is if there actually is no ambiguity, but everybody agreed to ahem their way out of it.

Honestly, I don't think MLB is going to push too hard on this one, having finally escaped the Steroid Stigma. I think they're more than willing to let this one go for now - popular player, small market team, etc. What will go on behind the scenes, I don't know, and neither will most of us. But woe be him who gets caught at the wrong time being the wrong player on the wrong team. Cumulative wrath will definitely be hurled, I'm sure.

Just...come up with a tight process and enforce it absolutely. Take it to court if you have to. But until then, if there's wiggle room, wiggling will be done, bet on it.

[Dave James]

Characterizing a chain of custody screw-up as absolution tells you all you need to know about MLB under the tutelage of Bud Selig. He's done his very best impression of an ostrich for years and this isn't any different. I'll tell you one thing. It would be interesting to find out what, in a 2-1 vote, the 1 was thinking.

[Dan Gould]

I don't what you are referring to, MLB has protested loudly against this ridiculous result. No one but Braun and his immediate family think this is "absolution".

[Dave James]

I don't what you are referring to, MLB has protested loudly against this ridiculous result. No one but Braun and his immediate family think this is "absolution".

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." If MLB is so distraught over the verdict, why don't they do something about it? Instead, they just gnash their teeth and wring their hands. Wink, wink. Nod, nod.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/video/mlb/2012/02/24/verducci_braun.SportsIllustrated/

Edited February 25, 2012 by Dave James

[Dan Gould]

What does the PA and drug testing agreements provide as a recourse against an adverse decision by a "mediator"?

ESPN is reporting that Major League Baseball is considering appealing the arbitrator’s decision in the Ryan Braun case to federal court:

"Sources said MLB is livid and is evaluating the possibility of suing in federal court to have Das’ decision overturned, but that they did not expect a decision to be made until after Das issues his written report within the next week or so and MLB lawyers have a chance to review it. There are very limited grounds by which either party could sue, but sources said MLB officials believe Das’ ruling was based on a faulty reading of the policy."

This would be a foolish waste of time.

Arbitration is chosen by parties for the express purpose of avoiding litigation. Courts are well aware of this. And in order to not undermine the integrity of arbitration awards, they very, very rarely overturn them.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/24/mlb-to-appeal-braun-ruling-to-federal-court-good-luck-with-that/

Where you come up with this "oh well, we tried, what can you do" response by MLB is completely beyond me.

[Dave James]

What does the PA and drug testing agreements provide as a recourse against an adverse decision by a "mediator"?

ESPN is reporting that Major League Baseball is considering appealing the arbitrator’s decision in the Ryan Braun case to federal court:

"Sources said MLB is livid and is evaluating the possibility of suing in federal court to have Das’ decision overturned, but that they did not expect a decision to be made until after Das issues his written report within the next week or so and MLB lawyers have a chance to review it. There are very limited grounds by which either party could sue, but sources said MLB officials believe Das’ ruling was based on a faulty reading of the policy."

This would be a foolish waste of time.

Arbitration is chosen by parties for the express purpose of avoiding litigation. Courts are well aware of this. And in order to not undermine the integrity of arbitration awards, they very, very rarely overturn them.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/24/mlb-to-appeal-braun-ruling-to-federal-court-good-luck-with-that/

Where you come up with this "oh well, we tried, what can you do" response by MLB is completely beyond me.

if they really cared about this, they would have done something at some point during the last ten years to close these loopholes. Ultimately, the Ryan Braun situation is the result of MLB trying to maintain plausible deniability both now and throughout the history of steroid use in the game. All, I might add, on Bud Selig's watch.

[Dan Gould]

What does the PA and drug testing agreements provide as a recourse against an adverse decision by a "mediator"?

ESPN is reporting that Major League Baseball is considering appealing the arbitrator’s decision in the Ryan Braun case to federal court:

"Sources said MLB is livid and is evaluating the possibility of suing in federal court to have Das’ decision overturned, but that they did not expect a decision to be made until after Das issues his written report within the next week or so and MLB lawyers have a chance to review it. There are very limited grounds by which either party could sue, but sources said MLB officials believe Das’ ruling was based on a faulty reading of the policy."

This would be a foolish waste of time.

Arbitration is chosen by parties for the express purpose of avoiding litigation. Courts are well aware of this. And in order to not undermine the integrity of arbitration awards, they very, very rarely overturn them.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/24/mlb-to-appeal-braun-ruling-to-federal-court-good-luck-with-that/

Where you come up with this "oh well, we tried, what can you do" response by MLB is completely beyond me.

if they really cared about this, they would have done something at some point during the last ten years to close these loopholes. Ultimately, the Ryan Braun situation is the result of MLB trying to maintain plausible deniability both now and throughout the history of steroid use in the game. All, I might add, on Bud Selig's watch.

Now this is the most ridiculous thing you've said in a long time. Say whatever you want about the pre-testing era or the fact that Congress had to exert pressure on both the league and the players to make the testing/penalty regime serious. But seriously when it comes to the modern system, what the fuck are you talking about?

50 game, 100 game and lifetime bans are the penalties. Names big and small have been caught and paid the price.

They've now added a blood test for HGH, ahead of any other organized league.

They had to negotiate with the player's union the terms of the testing program, the protocol, and the method (arbitration) of disputes about test results.

All the league cares about is plausible deniability? You are completely out of touch with reality.

The facts are:

Both of Braun's samples tested positive for synthetic testosterone.

Braun's defense was "the rules weren't followed" - a false claim based on the article I posted earlier, but one that the arbitrator accepted.

There's no appeal system, yet MLB still wants to penalize this cheater. And they are only paying lip service?

If they wanted to sweep this under the rug, they'd say "Oh well, rules are rules, the arbitrator ruled and that's that. Hey everybody, its spring and you know what that means!"

[Dave James]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? Not a chance. Looks like the Red Sox starting rotation is going to have to find someplace else to drink before, during and after the ball game. No word as yet on the fate of that other Fenway favorite, Popeye's Fried Chicken.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7614717/bobby-valentine-bans-beer-boston-red-sox-clubhouse

Edited February 26, 2012 by Dave James

[JSngry]

Bengie Molina have retired. Officially.

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2012/2/26/2826697/bengie-molina-retires

His stay with the Rangers was brief, but memorable. All the best to him!

[Neal Pomea]

Ryan Zimmerman signs with Washington through 2019!

Might make his whole career in DC.

[Brad]

Marlins and Nats are spending money like 2012 is really it for Planet Earth. Do they really have the money or this is just a big gamble?

[Neal Pomea]

I don't know how the Marlins do it! Their attendance is not good.

The Nationals have some incredibly wealthy owners. On the area discussion boards a lot of fans over the years have been saying they're cheap. I guess that kind of talk is going to be a thing of the past now that they have two big contracts (Werth and Zimmerman).

I am cautiously optimistic for 2012. Hope Harper works out for later in the season. We need some hitters.