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Chick Webb Mosaic Set announced


miles65

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Well, you insinuated that Mosaic intentionally don't mix recordings from more than one major label, as if it was their choice. I guess there's plenty of difficulties in there and I know others have complained here about the fact that most of the time it seems to be impossible to gather recordings from more than one major under one roof - but I really wouldn't want to hold that against Mosaic (which again, is how I understood your post).

As I am a huge supporter of Mosaic, I was NOT holding it against them. I've had this discussion many times with Scott. The legal difficulties involved in a such a scenario make doing this almost impossible, especially in this day and age. This could change (or become even more difficult) if UMG (owner of Decca) becomes the owner of EMI (owner of Blue Note, which as I understand it, is part owner of Mosaic itself). It's a shame really that Mosaic does not have at its disposal the legal team necessary to resolve such issues for the good of the music. But then again, it's rarely about the music with large record companies these days.

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Hep has a series of 6 cds that cover most of the Teddy Wilson small group sides including those on which Billie Holiday appears as vocalist. From memory, I think there are some sides from 1941 or 1942 that they didn't get to. Hep also has a seventh Teddy Wilson cd that covers his big band. All highly recommended.

Are there enough Teddy Wilson band dates (minus those with Lady Day since they're readily available) to justify a Mosaic set? I remember that Columbia Canada once did a 2Lp set, though it included a few of the Billie Holiday cuts. I was just listening to his sextet (IIRC) on an old AFRC Jubilee broadcast and they were great.

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Well, you insinuated that Mosaic intentionally don't mix recordings from more than one major label, as if it was their choice. I guess there's plenty of difficulties in there and I know others have complained here about the fact that most of the time it seems to be impossible to gather recordings from more than one major under one roof - but I really wouldn't want to hold that against Mosaic (which again, is how I understood your post).

As I am a huge supporter of Mosaic, I was NOT holding it against them. I've had this discussion many times with Scott. The legal difficulties involved in a such a scenario make doing this almost impossible, especially in this day and age. This could change (or become even more difficult) if UMG (owner of Decca) becomes the owner of EMI (owner of Blue Note, which as I understand it, is part owner of Mosaic itself). It's a shame really that Mosaic does not have at its disposal the legal team necessary to resolve such issues for the good of the music. But then again, it's rarely about the music with large record companies these days.

Okay, we're on the same page then ... as for UMG swallowing EMI (which, as far as I know, owns 50% of Mosaic), that might be the very end, as UMG has it's own boutique outlet with Hip-O-Select. If their jazz arm would be merged with Mosaic, that might indeed turn out fine. I assume Hip-O getting more active in jazz was the reason why Mosaic couldn't/wouldn't do any more Universal/Verve boxes (remember that the Granz Jam Sessions set was once planned to be a Mosaic?).

Anyway, rather than buying Mosaic, UMG should bring out a fifties JATP box set! :party:

Edited by king ubu
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Are there enough Teddy Wilson band dates (minus those with Lady Day since they're readily available) to justify a Mosaic set? I remember that Columbia Canada once did a 2Lp set, though it included a few of the Billie Holiday cuts. I was just listening to his sextet (IIRC) on an old AFRC Jubilee broadcast and they were great.

As others have noted, there are 7 Hep CDs covering Wilson's recordings for Brunswick and Columbia. They're all available, I think, and more cheaply than Mosaic would charge for a box - my set cost about fifty quid.

To me, leaving out the Holiday material would have made the CDs less interesting - rather like the Basie/Prez box left out loads of not very good Basie material. To get the full flavour of these old bands, one really needs to have all the poor stuff as well as all the good stuff. This is not a collector/completist issue; it's an understanding issue. The twenties and thirties are so far from our own experiences that the era is almost as foreign to us (certainly to an Englishman) as is present day Senegal.

MG

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Are there enough Teddy Wilson band dates (minus those with Lady Day since they're readily available) to justify a Mosaic set? I remember that Columbia Canada once did a 2Lp set, though it included a few of the Billie Holiday cuts. I was just listening to his sextet (IIRC) on an old AFRC Jubilee broadcast and they were great.

As others have noted, there are 7 Hep CDs covering Wilson's recordings for Brunswick and Columbia. They're all available, I think, and more cheaply than Mosaic would charge for a box - my set cost about fifty quid.

To me, leaving out the Holiday material would have made the CDs less interesting - rather like the Basie/Prez box left out loads of not very good Basie material. To get the full flavour of these old bands, one really needs to have all the poor stuff as well as all the good stuff. This is not a collector/completist issue; it's an understanding issue. The twenties and thirties are so far from our own experiences that the era is almost as foreign to us (certainly to an Englishman) as is present day Senegal.

MG

I may be wrong - I have only four of the seven Teddy Wilson Heps - but I believe that the Hep issues include very few of the solo sides. The French Columbia LP box included it all, including unissued alternates, which are often very enlightening. I believe that the Heps run from 1935-1940. The solo sides begin in 1934 and end in 1941.

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UMG has it's own boutique outlet with Hip-O-Select. If their jazz arm would be merged with Mosaic, that might indeed turn out fine. I assume Hip-O getting more active in jazz was the reason why Mosaic couldn't/wouldn't do any more Universal/Verve boxes (remember that the Granz Jam Sessions set was once planned to be a Mosaic?).

I don't think that adds up, Ubu. Hip-o Select hasn't released a jazz boxed set since the Wes Montgomery one, almost a year ago, so it's getting less active if anything. The Chick Webb set under discussion is Universal material, which suggests Mosaic is still getting that material. And the Granz Jam Sessions set came out years before Hip-o Select was conceived.

But a Hip-o/Mosaic merger could indeed be fine. With Cuscuna in control, the mastering would probably be more Mosaic-inclined, while we would get more compact/attractive packaging.

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French CBS issued a 3 LP set of Teddy Wilson piano solos recorded between 1934 and 1942. Some very fine playing. Don't know if there's enough there for a 3 CD Mosaic Select but, if there is, that would be a good Teddy Wilson project.

This one

073867.jpg

Wonderful box. As good as a Mosaic!

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UMG has it's own boutique outlet with Hip-O-Select. If their jazz arm would be merged with Mosaic, that might indeed turn out fine. I assume Hip-O getting more active in jazz was the reason why Mosaic couldn't/wouldn't do any more Universal/Verve boxes (remember that the Granz Jam Sessions set was once planned to be a Mosaic?).

I don't think that adds up, Ubu. Hip-o Select hasn't released a jazz boxed set since the Wes Montgomery one, almost a year ago, so it's getting less active if anything. The Chick Webb set under discussion is Universal material, which suggests Mosaic is still getting that material. And the Granz Jam Sessions set came out years before Hip-o Select was conceived.

But a Hip-o/Mosaic merger could indeed be fine. With Cuscuna in control, the mastering would probably be more Mosaic-inclined, while we would get more compact/attractive packaging.

I don't ever think we'll see Cuscuna supervising Hip-O Select products.

Hip-O Select plugs along. Don't forget the final Coltrane box set. Coming soon is a two cd Symphony Hall Concert set. And I bet more are planned.

Edited by jazzbo
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Are there enough Teddy Wilson band dates (minus those with Lady Day since they're readily available) to justify a Mosaic set? I remember that Columbia Canada once did a 2Lp set, though it included a few of the Billie Holiday cuts. I was just listening to his sextet (IIRC) on an old AFRC Jubilee broadcast and they were great.

As others have noted, there are 7 Hep CDs covering Wilson's recordings for Brunswick and Columbia. They're all available, I think, and more cheaply than Mosaic would charge for a box - my set cost about fifty quid.

To me, leaving out the Holiday material would have made the CDs less interesting - rather like the Basie/Prez box left out loads of not very good Basie material. To get the full flavour of these old bands, one really needs to have all the poor stuff as well as all the good stuff. This is not a collector/completist issue; it's an understanding issue. The twenties and thirties are so far from our own experiences that the era is almost as foreign to us (certainly to an Englishman) as is present day Senegal.

MG

I may be wrong - I have only four of the seven Teddy Wilson Heps - but I believe that the Hep issues include very few of the solo sides. The French Columbia LP box included it all, including unissued alternates, which are often very enlightening. I believe that the Heps run from 1935-1940. The solo sides begin in 1934 and end in 1941.

You're right, the Heps start in '35. Let's see what solos are on them.

1 4 cuts from 7 Oct '35

2 2 cuts from 22 Nov '35

3 nothing

4 nothing

5 2 cuts from 12 Nov '37

6 nothing

7 all big band

Well, only eight solos in all. I was under the impression that the Heps had the complete material he recorded in the timeframe. So...

MG

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UMG has it's own boutique outlet with Hip-O-Select. If their jazz arm would be merged with Mosaic, that might indeed turn out fine. I assume Hip-O getting more active in jazz was the reason why Mosaic couldn't/wouldn't do any more Universal/Verve boxes (remember that the Granz Jam Sessions set was once planned to be a Mosaic?).

I don't think that adds up, Ubu. Hip-o Select hasn't released a jazz boxed set since the Wes Montgomery one, almost a year ago, so it's getting less active if anything. The Chick Webb set under discussion is Universal material, which suggests Mosaic is still getting that material. And the Granz Jam Sessions set came out years before Hip-o Select was conceived.

But a Hip-o/Mosaic merger could indeed be fine. With Cuscuna in control, the mastering would probably be more Mosaic-inclined, while we would get more compact/attractive packaging.

I don't ever think we'll see Cuscuna supervising Hip-O Select products.

Hip-O Select plugs along. Don't forget the final Coltrane box set. Coming soon is a two cd Symphony Hall Concert set. And I bet more are planned.

Well, Cuscuna does have some history producing the Impulse 20 bit digipak cd's mastered by Labson, so he does have a connection. But I think you're right. He and Hip-O probably will never merge.

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Maybe this should be in a seperate thread.

I have gone through Lord this evening counting Teddy Wilson recordings:

I don't have the Hep CD's but I do have Classics, Neatwork and Masters Of Jazz.

There are 12 piano sessions (10 solo, 2 trio) from 1934 till 1942. In total 62 takes. To have them all you need: Classics 508,511,548,556,571,620 and 908 plus Neatwork RP 2021, 2032 and 2040.

Group recordings without Billie 27 sessions from 1935 till 1942. In total 86 takes. Most of these recordings are on Masters Of Jazz: Teddy and the girls vol. 1, 2 and 3 and The Legendary Small Groups vol. 1 and 2. To be complete you would also need: Classics 620 and 908 plus Mosaic Select 30.

The Big Band 1939-1940 7 sessions with in total 23 takes: 2 are on Teddy and the girls vol. 3. Classics 571 and 620 and Neatwork RP2021 cover the complete studio output.

Grand total: 171 takes (if I counted correctly) ^_^

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I just got the OK from Scott Wenzel to post here that the Earl Hines box is scheduled for release in December 2012. It will include Sony owned material (OKeh, Columbia, Bluebird, Victor, Signature, Vocalion) from 1928-1945. I've posted a separate thread for this box here.

Edited by J.A.W.
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I just got the OK from Scott Wenzel to post here that the Earl Hines box is scheduled for release in December 2012. It will include Sony owned material (OKeh, Columbia, Bluebird, Victor, Signature, Vocalion) from 1928-1945.

I want box number 57 :lol: :lol:

Well, if you don't get it, the whole set will have lots of Varieties... :rolleyes:

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On the topic of split boxes, the Berigan was Sony and EMI (Brunswick, Parlophone, Vocalion). So it can be done but the economics there likely did not work out.

The Jacquet was EMI (Aladdin/Philo), RCA, Savoy (who was the owner then?), Apollo (Delmark?) and there's an ARA session there, too, not sure where that belongs. But that was the exception to the rule ... and from what I've heard, while such negotiations were sometimes possible back then (1996), it got harder and harder to acquire licenses and reach agreements in general, for any label. Too many lawyers around, I guess ...

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