Chick Webb Mosaic Set announced

[J.A.W.]

Mosaic's Scott Wenzel just told me the Webb/Fitzgerald set is due out in October 2013.

Oh, I do hope it doesn't just include Ella's work with the band. Or does it include the material after Chick died and Ella took over for a while?

MG

Apparently you haven't read the descripton on the Mosaic site the first post linked to. Here it is again: http://www.mosaicrecords.com/genres.asp?dept=50 (scroll down)

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Mosaic's Scott Wenzel just told me the Webb/Fitzgerald set is due out in October 2013.

Oh, I do hope it doesn't just include Ella's work with the band. Or does it include the material after Chick died and Ella took over for a while?

MG

Apparently you haven't read the descripton on the Mosaic site the first post linked to. Here it is again: http://www.mosaicrecords.com/genres.asp?dept=50 (scroll down)

Oh, good. I wouldn't get the Prez with Basie box, or the Chu Berry. I want boxes with the crappy stuff in them, not just what authorities think is good.

Thanks Hans.

MG

[Clunky]

Mosaic's Scott Wenzel just told me the Webb/Fitzgerald set is due out in October 2013.

Oh, I do hope it doesn't just include Ella's work with the band. Or does it include the material after Chick died and Ella took over for a while?

MG

Apparently you haven't read the descripton on the Mosaic site the first post linked to. Here it is again: http://www.mosaicrecords.com/genres.asp?dept=50 (scroll down)

Oh, good. I wouldn't get the Prez with Basie box, or the Chu Berry. I want boxes with the crappy stuff in them, not just what authorities think is good.

Thanks Hans.

MG

I think you're missing out , especially in regards to the Chu set. How else can the listener get a handle on Chu but on a set where the focus is on him. He lead so few dates of his own that compromise is needed to make the set a manangable size and meet its original aim to focus on Berry.

[SwingItTrev]

Oh, good. I wouldn't get the Prez with Basie box, or the Chu Berry. I want boxes with the crappy stuff in them, not just what authorities think is good.

Thanks Hans.

MG

The Chu Berry set is (was?) my favourite set so far. Unfortunately you'll be waiting a long time to get these tracks as part of a complete Fletcher Henderson or Cab Calloway set out of Mosaic.

Anyway, bring on the Chick Webb! (and the others Mosaic, so I can give you all my money)

[thirdtry]

Info is up:

http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.asp?number=252-MD-CD

[Clunky]

Hmmm...... If I've understood it correctly quite a number of the titles ( 30+) have been transferred from CD sources. I hope I'm wrong

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Oh, good. I wouldn't get the Prez with Basie box, or the Chu Berry. I want boxes with the crappy stuff in them, not just what authorities think is good.

Thanks Hans.

MG

The Chu Berry set is (was?) my favourite set so far. Unfortunately you'll be waiting a long time to get these tracks as part of a complete Fletcher Henderson or Cab Calloway set out of Mosaic.

Anyway, bring on the Chick Webb! (and the others Mosaic, so I can give you all my money)

Well, I've got lots of Fletcher Henderson (but not complete) and a complete Cab Calloway 1930-40 on JSP. I'd like a forties box of Cab.

MG

Hmmm...... If I've understood it correctly quite a number of the titles ( 30+) have been transferred from CD sources. I hope I'm wrong

I've got a cheapo CD of Webb. I don't think the sound's bad, but I am a very long way from being even an UNreliable authority on sound

I doubt if Mosaic would use existing CDs unless they were as good as can be.

MG

[J.A.W.]

Hmmm...... If I've understood it correctly quite a number of the titles ( 30+) have been transferred from CD sources. I hope I'm wrong

Quote from the Mosaic site:

The CDs in this package include a variety of sources. Since the metal parts were not made available to us (they have yet to be unpacked and catalogued at their new home in the Library of Congress) we have transferred mint 78s, vinyl test pressings from the John R.T. Davies Collection and Decca CDs from the 1990s that utilized metal mothers transferred by Steven Lasker and restored by Erick Labson. Other sources for this set include some tracks from a recently released French Universal (referred to as Uni) boxed set of Ella Fitzgerald.

Especially the part about the Decca CDs from the 1990s doesn't sound good to me. I don't have it anymore, but if I remember correctly they suffered from a considerable amount of noise reduction, and I'm not a fan of Mr Labson's restoration/mastering work. I wish they had waited until the metal parts became available.

[edited to correct an error]

Edited September 22, 2013 by J.A.W.

[medjuck]

Hmmm...... If I've understood it correctly quite a number of the titles ( 30+) have been transferred from CD sources. I hope I'm wrong

Quote from the Mosaic site:

The CDs in this package include a variety of sources. Since the metal parts were not made available to us (they have yet to be unpacked and catalogued at their new home in the Library of Congress) we have transferred mint 78s, vinyl test pressings from the John R.T. Davies Collection and Decca CDs from the 1990s that utilized metal mothers transferred by Steven Lasker and restored by Erick Labson. Other sources for this set include some tracks from a recently released French Universal (referred to as Uni) boxed set of Ella Fitzgerald.

If the cds they used were made from metal masters and transferred by Steve Lasker they're probably sound pretty good.

[J.A.W.]

Hmmm...... If I've understood it correctly quite a number of the titles ( 30+) have been transferred from CD sources. I hope I'm wrong

Quote from the Mosaic site:

The CDs in this package include a variety of sources. Since the metal parts were not made available to us (they have yet to be unpacked and catalogued at their new home in the Library of Congress) we have transferred mint 78s, vinyl test pressings from the John R.T. Davies Collection and Decca CDs from the 1990s that utilized metal mothers transferred by Steven Lasker and restored by Erick Labson. Other sources for this set include some tracks from a recently released French Universal (referred to as Uni) boxed set of Ella Fitzgerald.

If the cds they used were made from metal masters and transferred by Steve Lasker they're probably sound pretty good.

I'm not so sure about that, see my remark about Erick Labson's restoration/mastering work in post #83. His masterings often sound pretty harsh to my ears.

[edited to correct an error]

Edited September 22, 2013 by J.A.W.

[Blue Train]

This is why I am holding off until there a lot of feedback. I already have access to vinyl and and CD's. Wish they just waited until they could use the metal parts.

The CDs in this package include a variety of sources. Since the metal parts were not made available to us (they have yet to be unpacked and catalogued at their new home in the Library of Congress) we have transferred mint 78s, vinyl test pressings from the John R.T. Davies Collection and Decca CDs from the 1990s that utilized metal mothers transferred by Steven Lasker and restored by Erick Labson. Other sources for this set include some tracks from a recently released French Universal (referred to as Uni) boxed set of Ella Fitzgerald.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Blue Train

[king ubu]

Hm, this is a bit weird ... if they want to do it right (and I'm sure they want!), why not postpone it, even if by some years (okay, the future isn't safe, I guess, but ...), and wait for the metal parts to become accessible again? Or does such stuff take decades with the LoC?

I'm not sure I'll get this, it's one I'd rather jump for at the last moment, I guess, if at all ... the Ella sides, master takes only, are covered in the French Complete Masters box, for Webb I've got Chronos which probably can't complete with other releases soundwise, but still, I guess I've got 90% of the music and this isn't exactly a cheap set, so ...

Seems, btw, to be 49 tracks taken from CDs (my browser gives 53 hits for "(CD)", four in the discography, the rest in the list of sources used - btw. those lists are a nice idea, play it open, I sure appreciate that! And I wonder how often in earlier sets they actually might have done the same, might have even announced it in the "producer's note", but it's somewhat hidden in there, the detailed list is a nice new addition, I've only seen it once in a box, I think .. is there on in the Hines? A friend got this and I was there when he opened it, don't have it myself yet.)

[gmonahan]

I'm in. Use of the Australian 78s is new to me. I'm also a bit bothered by the cd transfers, but not enough not to preorder the box!

gregmo

[mjzee]

So much for the transfer of the masters to LOC being benign-to-good. How many years has it been, and they still haven't even unpacked them?

[J.A.W.]

I'm in. Use of the Australian 78s is new to me. I'm also a bit bothered by the cd transfers, but not enough not to preorder the box!

gregmo

Well, those CD transfers are enough reason for me to pass this time, at least for now.

[Clunky]

I'm in. Use of the Australian 78s is new to me. I'm also a bit bothered by the cd transfers, but not enough not to preorder the box!

gregmo

Australian 78s are said to very good pressings and well regarded. I believe Indian 78s ( HMV etc) also can be good. I'm guessing it'll be down to the purity of the shellac and how fine the filler is.

[SwingItTrev]

I have mixed feelings about the CD transfers. It's great that they're not too proud to use the best available source whatever the media. But since I have those original CDs anyway, there's much less incentive to buy these for improved audio quality (one of Mosaic's main strengths). I'm curious about the back story to why they didn't wait for the metal parts, considering they are extant.

[crisp]

My guess is that Mosaic was so far down the road with this set that by the time the problem became apparent to either postpone or abandon the project would have cost the business dearly.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

In the great scheme of things, although I know nowt about the LofC, I can't imagine that the public policy (ie political) rationale for providing additional resources to deal expeditiously with the Chick Webb metal parts can be even slightly more than zero. After all, who cares about this? (Yes, I know WE care, but most of us aren't US voters, frankly. And even if we were, there are probably fewer than 5,000 of us in the entire world.)

But I CAN see a public policy rationale for saying stuff like, 'Hm, not sure.' 'Not yet decided.' 'Probably...' Rather than, 'Fuck off Cuscuna, we don't give a toss.' And that accounts for Mosaic eventually deciding to go with what they can go with, because the music's good and because there's some sunk costs which would otherwise be irrecoverable.

What I wonder is, why Universal chose to send the stuff to the LofC, when the Smithsonian would probably have welcomed the material under the same sort of conditions Moses Asch got them to agree to about Folkways.

MG

[ArtSalt]

It's a shame about using the Decca CDs, as posted above, surely a postponement would have been optimum in the circumstances. I buy the Mosaic box sets, not only for the completeness of the set, but sonic quality that comes from painstackingly mastering from the best sources available. A previously released CD doesn't fall into this category does it? Still, a set I will be purchasing.

[medjuck]

Does anyone here have the existing cds? How is the sound?

[J.A.W.]

Does anyone here have the existing cds? How is the sound?

I had one Decca CD, Spinnin' the Webb, and if I remember correctly it suffered from noise reduction. I sold it when I got the John R.T. Davies-mastered Hep CDs Rhythm Man and Strictly Jive.

Edited September 22, 2013 by J.A.W.

[gmonahan]

I queried Scott Wenzel about this, and he indicated they had listened to several sources for each track, choosing the one that sounded best. He didn't know if their engineer had tweaked the cd-sourced material or not. I didn't ask him about waiting for metal parts. I have the GRPs (Mosaic used two, "Spinnin' the Webb" and "Ella Fitzgerald: The Early Years, Vol. 1"), and they all do use some noise reduction, though I always thought they sounded pretty good. Not Mosaic good, but pretty good. I'm as mystified as anyone else about this choice, and I'm anxious to hear the set to find out how it sounds. Decca material hasn't always fared that well over the years in the hands of MCA/Universal. Some of the aged here will remember the execrable "reprocessed stereo" sound of the old Decca Jazz Heritage Series!!

gregmo

[Clunky]

I queried Scott Wenzel about this, and he indicated they had listened to several sources for each track, choosing the one that sounded best. He didn't know if their engineer had tweaked the cd-sourced material or not. I didn't ask him about waiting for metal parts. I have the GRPs (Mosaic used two, "Spinnin' the Webb" and "Ella Fitzgerald: The Early Years, Vol. 1"), and they all do use some noise reduction, though I always thought they sounded pretty good. Not Mosaic good, but pretty good. I'm as mystified as anyone else about this choice, and I'm anxious to hear the set to find out how it sounds. Decca material hasn't always fared that well over the years in the hands of MCA/Universal. Some of the aged here will remember the execrable "reprocessed stereo" sound of the old Decca Jazz Heritage Series!!

gregmo

I've two of these and they number amongst the worst LPs or CDs i have ever bought

[Blue Train]

My guess is this is going to be one Mosaic set that will take a good time period before it is put on the running low/last chance list....especially @ $136 + shipping....and the later is now even more outside the U.S.


It's the first one I won't even bother with until I find it in a used bin.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Blue Train