king ubu Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 The Basie series, which unfortunately only reached 11 volumes, is tremendous. A full half of the material is broadcasts of the greatest big band that ever existed, mostly in quite good sound. I consider it to be a cornerstone of my entire music collection. John - let me first express my respect for all your knowledge about Prez! Could you please indicate the volumes of the Basie Masters of Jazz which include (or mostly include) broadcasts? I think I got to look for this stuff! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmilovan Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (edited) Masters of Jazz Lester Young volume 6 had 'Wham' and 'Lady Be Good' from a December 22, 1940 jam session with Hot Lips Page, Charlie Barnet and unidentified musicians. The same volume 6 has the following unissued sides from a June 1942 broadcast from the Trouville Club in LA by the Lee and Lester Young band: an incomplete 'Broadway', an 'incomplete 'Benny's Bugle', a complete 'Broadway', an incomplete 'Lady Be Good' and an incomplete 'Benny's Bugle'. All these Trouville Club numbers are pretty short but feature Lester Young. Somewhere on those discs certainly there is "A Little Bit South of North Carolina" with Lester doing vocal chorus (it is also Lee and Lester Band). And, my dear Pres fans, do you know what is among them greatest things while we are on this subject - the army of Pres followers who carefully listened to him, learned to play his solos or just mentioned him as his prime and strongest influence. I was delighted when I saw somewhere an interview w. J. J. Johnson. He stated there in his early years he became sort of "Prescoholic" - J. J. used to look for all of his records, play them a million times etc. I tried to make a list of musicians influenced by him - it is fantastic list of various musicians on other instruments than tenor. But, one of the most interesting statements ever was this one: "KC: Now, Charles played guitar with the orchestra for a while. JJ: Not when I was in the band. KC: That was after you'd left? JJ: Yeah. KC: Did Charlie ever express any musical desires or dreams or ideas that he'd like to do? JJ: No. I got the total feeling that he was very content with life, just playing guitar, and with Benny. He loved it. KC: Did he ever tell you who he liked? Django, or Louis Armstrong? JJ: Lester Young." "Charlie was Something" - An Interview with Jerry Jerome (about Charlie Christian), taken from: http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/hansen/Charlie/jerome.htm Edited January 23, 2004 by mmilovan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 King Ubu: OK, here goes: MOJ Count Basie vol. 1&2 is all the Bennie Moten studio material. There are no broadcasts on volume 3. Volume 4 is 100% broadcasts from the Chatterbox and Savoy from February and June, 1937 Almost half of volume 5 is a broadcast from Cedar Grove, NJ. 10/37. The rest is Decca sides and the Bennie Goodman jam form Carnegie Hall, 1/38 the majority of volume 6 is broadcasts from CBS (American Dances (7/38)) and the Famous Door (7/38). The rest is Decca sides. The vast majority of volume 7 is broadcasts from the Famous Door (9-10/38). The balance is Decca sides. Volume 8 is about 1/3 broadcasts from the Famous Door (7/38) and Carnegie Hall (Spirituals to Swing). The balance is Decca sides. Volume 9 is only Decca and Columbia studio sides. Volume 10 is all Columbia studio sides. Volume 11 is almost all broadcasts (there are only 5 Columbia studio tracks) from 1939 from Chicago (Hotel Sherman) and New York (the Famous Door). John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 John, thanks a lot! Looks like I got to hunt down almost all of these some day! My purse already starts hurting... ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 That volume 8 of the Masters of Jazz Count Basie series include six sides by the Basie band which never appeared before. The first one (a July 23, 1938 broadcast from the Famous Door) is a Jumpin' at the Woodside with a great Lester Young solo. The next five are more later broadcasts from the Famous Door with poor sound but great music. The CD also includes an hitherto unissued November 1938 broadcast version of 'Lady Be Good' with solos by Hershel Evans and Lester Young that is superb! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Thanks for the info, brownie! By the way, Prez Masters of Jazz Vol. 6 is on its way! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmilovan Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 That volume 8 of the Masters of Jazz Count Basie series include six sides by the Basie band which never appeared before. The first one (a July 23, 1938 broadcast from the Famous Door) is a Jumpin' at the Woodside with a great Lester Young solo. Was that vol 8 the last Basie OT Band disc MOJ issued? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 That volume 8 of the Masters of Jazz Count Basie series include six sides by the Basie band which never appeared before. The first one (a July 23, 1938 broadcast from the Famous Door) is a Jumpin' at the Woodside with a great Lester Young solo. Was that vol 8 the last Basie OT Band disc MOJ issued? There were 11, it seems, by Basie. How many by Pres? ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 The last Masters of Jazz Basie I have is volume 11. This goes up to a July 15, 1939 Famous Door broadcast. Ten sides from that broadcast including four that never appeared elsewhere. Only one of those 'White Sails' has a short Lester Young obligato behind Helen Humes' vocal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Would anyone be so kind a give some short information on the 6 volumes of Pres Masters of Jazz? I know some are discussed in the copied parts of this thread, but not all of them. Thanks very much! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 I just searched the thread and found the following quotes (most by John L, some by jazzbo, maybe some by others): ------------------ Lester Young Masters of Jazz vol. 1 is very worthwhile as well It has some great rare material on it, including a session under the leadership of a certain terrible organ player named Glenn Hardman (Hardman did atleast have the humor to record "Upright Organ Blues" at that session!) Lester Young is in another world, however, taking a series of extended solos that have to be heard to be believed. ------------------ All of the existing recordings of Lester Young from 1941 through the 1942 Nat King Cole date without Basie or Billie Holiday can be found on Lester Young Masters of Jazz vol. 2. That includes the only scraps that we have (unfortunately) of the Lee and Lester band. ------------------ JSngry: Sorry, but I can't recall any of the CDs now. There is one track from the Hotel Lincoln in May 1944 (Harvard Blues) that Masters of Jazz included on Lester Young volume 6. I don't know why they included this track as the Lester Young series is suppose to feature all Pres recordings only without Basie or Billie. ------------------ Masters of Jazz Lester Young volume 2 contains the two known tracks of Lee and Lester's band from 1941. Even these two tracks are incomplete. There are two other live tracks from 1941 by the "Lester Young band" featuring Shad Collins on trumpet. Volume 7 has some further scraps of Lee and Lester from 1944. I really emphasize the word "scraps." They are just bits and pieces in terrible sound that really don't add up to anything at all. ------------------ And then on Lester Young, Masters of Jazz Volume 6: Red "Mack" Morris, Bumps Meyer, LY, Jimmie Rowles, Louis Gonzales, Red Callendar, Lee Young: Trouville Club, LA June 1942 Broadway (incl) Benny's Bugle (incl) Broadway Oh Lady Be Good Benny's Bugle (incl.) I always think of the Taxi War Dance and Tickle Toe as with Lee Young, but according to Masters of Jazz Volume Two it is Shad and John Collins, Red Callender, and Harold "Doc" West. . . . ------------------ Lester Young: Masters of Jazz volume 10 has just been released. This disk consists of all know Lester Young broadcasts with JATP from April 22 through June 17. I had some of this material on LP and a couple tracks on obscure CDs. But a lot of it is completely new to me! The first part consists of blowouts with Coleman Hawkins, Illinois Jacquet, and Buck Clayton. (This is all different from the Pres/Hawk concert on Pres Conferences, which was included on Lester Young volume 9.) A second part consists of Pres leading various quartets, quintets, and sextets. ------------------ So there seem to be at least 10 volumes of Pres Masters of Jazz - which heightens my interest in having an overview of them! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 (edited) Lester Young Masters of Jazz series vol. 1) Contains the Commodore and 1938 Carnegie Hall KC6 material plus the session with Glenn Hardman and Lee Castle discussed above plus "Ti Pi Tin" with the Bennie Goodman orchestra plus one track from a jam with Roy Eldridge and Benny Goodman. vol. 2) Carnegie Hall KC7 1939, two rare tracks from Lester's band of 1941, session with Una Mae Carlisle, session with Sammy Price and His Texas Bluesicians, rare tracks from Lee and Lester's band, 1941, 1942 studio session with Nat King Cole vol. 3) One broadcast with Basie of of "Woodside" from 1943. The rest is the Dickie Wells (KC7) session on Signature and the Lester Young quartet session on Keynote. vol. 4) All studio tracks (KC7 on Keynote and KC6 on Commodore) vol 5) All studio: end of KC6 on Commodore. 1944 Savoy tracks without Basie vol. 6) Broadcast of Harvard Blues with Basie 1944, Jammin' the Blues Soundtrack, 2 tracks from a broadcast jam session with Hot Lips Page from 1940 that were somehow left off of an earlier volume, a few scraps in terrible sound from Lee and Lester's band from 1942. I didn't buy volumes 7 or 8 becasue I had all of the material on other disks. As I recall, they consist of a combination of Aladdin recordings and few 46 JATP sides. vol. 9) JATP 46, Jubilee All Star dates from 1946, including 3 jams with Coleman Hawkins. vol. 10) All JATP sides from April-June, 1946, including lots more with Coleman Hawkins. Edited January 27, 2004 by John L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Thanks very very much, John! Seems like I have most of what is included on these discs! Except for the Goodman items on Vol. 1, the Lee/Lester on Vol. 2, the Basie broadcast on Vol. 3, and some of Vol. 6, but I have ordered that one. Got to hunt Vols. 1-3 and some of the Basies! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmilovan Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 (edited) Lester Young Masters of Jazz series vol. 1) ... plus "Ti Pi Tin" with the Bennie Goodman orchestra plus one track from a jam with Roy Eldridge and Benny Goodman... I have that "Ti-Pi-Tin" solo on RCA LP set contain Goodman big band sides (it is great as anything else - so nice to hear what Lester could do with rather banal original melody). Unfortunately, except dates and musicians there is no information HOW Lester took part in this recording session with Goodman band. Anybody knows the story? Edited January 28, 2004 by mmilovan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Milan, fact is that Benny Goodman was a huge fan of Lester Young. They played together at various jam sessions and Lester was among the musicians invited at the January 1938 Goodman concert at Carnegie Hall. There were several internal problems within the Goodman band at the time of that concert. Gene Krupa left the band shortly after the concert. He was replaced by Lionel Hampton (and Jo Jones for several broadcasts). And BG invited Lester Young (plus Freddy Green and Walter Page) for the March 1938 session that produced 'Ti Pi Tin' and five other tunes. In typical Goodman fashion, Lester was invited for the full session but allowed only a brief solo on 'Ti Pi Tin'. The fact that BG invited Lester (and Basie musicians) enraged saxophonist Art Rollini but Rollini stayed in the band. Guitarist Allan Reuss quit the BG band after the session. Goodman later hired saxophonists who were inspired by the Prez. Like Stan Getz and Wardell Gray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmilovan Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 (edited) Many thanks brownie for these historical informations. And, if I am not wrong, Benny hired Jerry Jerome (have to check my LP), and Jerry sounded so close to Lester on occasions. As time went by Jerome was clear copy of Pres, maybe an earliest one, right before Getz or Wardell! We did not discussed this at Jerome thread! Really, which sax player (it might be form any band) earliest showed he was under Lester influence? BTW, Goodman later used to try to get Basie, Jo Jones, Greene, Page (?) and Christian and Lester, to disband his band and he wanted to play in combo gathered from these musicans. He talked to Basie about all that, and nothing happened, except few sessions with above people - some of the most important sessions in jazz history. Edited January 28, 2004 by mmilovan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmilovan Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 (edited) And to add a few more interesting aspects Flurin (king ubu) and I discussed some influences on Pres (such as strong influence from pop tunes and standards Pres used as start point for citations in various occasions). Flurin cleverly noticed that even r&b music of post war time might left some impact on Pres. Maybe Jim can help with all these, or some other researcher who knows well post 1945 hits well. On the other hand, Pres certainly left to modern players some oddities, delightful eccentric lines, strong detached from main pulse and under-played supporting harmonies that are close to essences of free jazz. I can clearly understand them somewhat different from vocal inflections Pres used, and that powerful device can be found on Jim's BFT4 - example of Basie with Young, from 1944. If someone like to participate in discussion here we are! Edited January 30, 2004 by mmilovan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Just some thoughts - I was being ill for some days, and got the new Basie Columbia 4CD set just before, just in time to have a listen. Pres is really grabbing me! His music is so emotional, so moving, it's very very hard to express in words (and even more so using a foreign language). I hugely enjoy his solos on tunes such as "Broadway", "Easy Does It" (with that mind-of-a-genius-modulating-brake starting of his s-o-o-o-o r-e-l-a-x-e-d s-o-l-o...), "Taxi War Dance" etc. The remastering of the box is indeed great! And disc one does have the master takes of the Jones-Smith date, of the Basie's Bad Boys, and of Count Basie's KC7 - all in very good sound. Disc 4 then, is a whole new thing! I have been treated by our dear friend Milan with copies of some early (1937) live Basie featuring wonderful Pres, yet in very bad sound quality, mostly - then hearing the reprocessed music on disc 4 of the new set is a real treat! Pres really lets loose, so utterly creative, full of ideas, playing with that nice slightly veiled sound (all discernable thanks to the good sound quality), and displaying such an ease, such a flow... Very hard to find words! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 that box is underway. I hope it arrives tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Milan: In some ways, I think that Pres was the true precursor to Ornette Coleman.. Pres played virtually free in the sense of Coleman. He let the logic of the blues, as opposed to any particular chord changes, dictate how his solos evolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmilovan Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 (edited) Flurin, I am glad you finally purchased Basie 4 disc set. People who read this and similar boards probably know I drove myself to nirvana explaining that this new set is not complete, and that fair thing would me Complete Basie on Columbia. And I really enjoyed things you discovered. Of course, "Easy Does IT" is masterpiece in building and resolving the tension John, I can understand your words about Ornette, but, did some of other people can it too? Edited February 4, 2004 by mmilovan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 I can understand your words about Ornette, but, did some of other people can it too? Milan, of course I would have preferred a complete Basie set, too (and I read your posts on that topic)! But as sound is soo good on this 4CD set, I don't regret having spent some money on it. Re. Ornette - I think I understand and hear what John refers to. The spontaneous flow, the internal logic, the ease with which things are handled, changes discarded, played over - the source of this being a similar one with Lester and Ornette. Makes sense for me. ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7584 just to link things neatly - some cool photos there, thanks to Jim (Sngry) and EKE BBB! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Milan, of course I would have preferred a complete Basie set, too (and I read your posts on that topic)! But as sound is soo good on this 4CD set, I don't regret having spent some money on it. I had the 20 LP Basie Columbia set by CBS France and sold it, as the many alternates made it a rather unpleasant listening experience. On LP having only three titles on one side gets tiring. If they do a complete CD edition, I'd prefer different CDs for masters and alternates, or a separate master take edition. On the other hand, I sure wouldn't get tired of listening to four different Prez solos over one theme .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Milan, of course I would have preferred a complete Basie set, too (and I read your posts on that topic)! But as sound is soo good on this 4CD set, I don't regret having spent some money on it. I had the 20 LP Basie Columbia set by CBS France and sold it, as the many alternates made it a rather unpleasant listening experience. On LP having only three titles on one side gets tiring. If they do a complete CD edition, I'd prefer different CDs for masters and alternates, or a separate master take edition. On the other hand, I sure wouldn't get tired of listening to four different Prez solos over one theme .... Mike, I really like the Columbia set - but: I think the octet sides from 1950/51 are pretty unessential, and I am not so sure I like them, neither that they really make sense, musically (DeFranco and Grey being too far out for the acutal context). Then, there's various sessions where they just took one or two cuts (sure they did include some highlights, I think, but I find that not that cool, as long as there's no complete edition around). They could do good if they would release a series of single discs, too. I don't need a box absolutely. How about doing it like they did the single Louis Armstrong hot fives & hot sevens? They could go on at an easy pace, release two or three CDs a year, and in two or three years we would have all that stuff, nicely packaged and remastered as Legacy usually does things... wouldn't that be nice? (Alright, I dream...) ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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