Jump to content

BFT 94 Discussion


jeffcrom

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 113
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Track 8 reminds me a little of Red Norvo (though it's not him--just in sound or style or arrangement). Am I thinking in the right direction, Jeff? If so, I have a guess for the arranger.

I think you've got the composer/arranger. Lay it on us!

Eddie Sauter!

Unfortunately, that doesn't bring me any closer to identifying the band. I know he arranged for a whole bunch of folks after the war, but I can't identify any of them as definitively being the ones on this recording.

Eddie Sauter arranged and composed a lot for Benny Goodman. So I am thinking #8 this is from the 30s.

Track #9 sounds like it has been used in a old Wanner Brothers cartoon.

It is indeed an Eddie Sauter composition/arrangement. It's not Benny Goodman - this is from after the time ES wrote for Goodman. Sauter was the staff arranger for this underrated big band in the mid-to-late 1940's.

I guess one of the themes of this blindfold test is "great, underappreciated musicians, bands and composers." I knew Sauter wrote a lot for this band, but when I finally picked up a collection of their work, Sauter's writing blew me away. (I know it's not quite your thing, Alex!)

Hardbopjazz, you sound like my first wife. Whenever I'd put some early jazz on the stereo, she'd say, "Cartoon music!" Alex has identified the tune as "That's A Plenty," and it might very well have been used in cartoons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sauter was the staff arranger for this underrated big band in the mid-to-late 1940's.

Oh, I think this hint just narrowed it down enough for a good guess: Ray McKinley, perhaps?

Still wondering about the guitarist. If you confirm McKinley I may cave and dig up a discography to see who played with him in the mid-to-late 40's. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sauter was the staff arranger for this underrated big band in the mid-to-late 1940's.

Oh, I think this hint just narrowed it down enough for a good guess: Ray McKinley, perhaps?

Still wondering about the guitarist. If you confirm McKinley I may cave and dig up a discography to see who played with him in the mid-to-late 40's. :)

Go, Alex! Ray McKinley and His Orchestra.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sauter was the staff arranger for this underrated big band in the mid-to-late 1940's.

Oh, I think this hint just narrowed it down enough for a good guess: Ray McKinley, perhaps?

Still wondering about the guitarist. If you confirm McKinley I may cave and dig up a discography to see who played with him in the mid-to-late 40's. :)

Go, Alex! Ray McKinley and His Orchestra.

Very interesting! I don't think I'd heard that band before, though I knew of its existence. I knew McKinley mainly from his recordings with Bradley/Slack and the Jazz Club Mystery Hot Band.

Am really enjoying this BFT, Jeff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BFT94

1 Sounds like Ammons. Gene, not Albert. I don’t quite recognise the tune and, without playing through seventy-three hours of Jug, I don’t know what it is. Except it’s probably not Jug.

2 ‘Ain’t misbehaving’ but surely not Fats Waller on piano. That would be a bit too obvious. Well, the guitarist does sound like Al Casey. And a nice tenor player. The whole thing’s really nice. The tenor player has something of a modern sound, so I think this isn’t what I think it is.

3 Not my cup of tea. Nice intro, but all that spiky stuff from the alto player gets on my nerves a bit. I think I’m often on Eddie Condon’s side – does it go down the ear like broken glass or like honey? But even when I want some broken glass, I don’t ever want this. Is the tune ‘Round midnight?’

4 Oh, Klezmer! Well, I should have expected some, shouldn’t I? Now, let’s see if they go into a bit of Afrobeat. No; well I don’t know who it is, then.

5 Now, here’s a nice nervous bit of broken glass that I think I’d like rather a lot on those special days. On second thoughts, it lacks a certain presence – Big Jay McNeely’s, I think.

6 New Orleans early forties band, I suspect. Wunnerful!!!! Fabulous!!!!!

7 ‘You’ve changed’ by a nice trombonist. Is it Britt Woodman? Well, very pleasant but I think you had to be there.

8 Modern musicians pretending to be cheerful entertainer chappies. I can always do without this, sorry. It’s not Les Paul on guitar, is it – it’s someone pretending to be him.

9 Damn! The title escapes me. Is it ‘Clarinet marmalade’? Oh, a rather nice clarinet player, too. And trumpet player. Everyone’s good. Is that a different clarinet player or the same one having another go? An accordion? Sacré blue! Or Sacré orange, I suppose.

10 Well, pretty good musicians and a pretty good performance with nothing wrong with it, except it doesn’t sound like anything in particular. So my guess would be an academic band of some kind.

11 Time for a quick ciggie.

12 Interesting. I’ll guess Pee Wee Russell in his kind of modern phase. Haven’t heard any of his recordings in this vein, so I don’t really know. Damn good pianist, too. I think I want to buy this one.

13 Well, a different clarinet player. This is kind of interesting, too. Joe Henderson type tenor player but doesn’t have the right sound. Perhaps it’s Bennie Maupin. Well, I dunno. There was some marimba player – British I think, but from the West Indies somewhere – who used to play modern music wearing a bowler hat – other clothes as well. His music was interesting, too, but not really all that interesting. Like this.

14 Another accordion! This one must be French. I really like this quite a bit. Wonder who it is. It isn’t as old as it sounds.

15 Oh, I know this one. Well, I don’t, but I’ve got it. Somewhere. Come on organist, let’s hear ya! Well, he sounds like a somewhat hesitant Charles Earland. The tune is based on ‘Impressions’ I think. I dunno. It’s a mystery. Or maybe it’s a Charles Earland tribute band…

16 Oh, a groove thing! Sounds like Gil Scott-Heron. Now it doesn’t. Well, I doubt if Gil would have included all that gospel stuff, so I don’t know. Very nice, though. I’m looking forward to finding out who this is.

Some really nice stuff in here, Jeff. Thanks very much.

Now for a look at what everyone else has said...

MG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Track 15

Instead of the usual tenor and organ group, here we have organ and two altos. Drums as well, of course, and the organist sounds to be providing the bass line. Organist has a Jimmy Smith sound, but there were so many players like this in the 60s, particularly on Blue Note's books, that I could't hazard a guess as to identity. Altoists nicely contrasted: second soloist very boppish and could be Stitt, the other further "out" in the manner of James Spaulding. Structure seems to be 12 bar blues with an added bridge section. Full of verve and swing - love this one! :tup

Glad you like it, and you're right about one of the saxophonists - Sonny Stitt. The other one is not James Spaulding, but that's a great guess - that probably would have been my guess if I was hearing this cold.

Is the other sac player Charles McPherson?

Bunky Green, goddamn!!!!

From Soul in the Night.

OBO110X

MG

No it's not. It's Robin Kenyatta, In the bag, from Deuces wild. Well, I knew I had it.

Encore OBO110X

MG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Track 15

Instead of the usual tenor and organ group, here we have organ and two altos. Drums as well, of course, and the organist sounds to be providing the bass line. Organist has a Jimmy Smith sound, but there were so many players like this in the 60s, particularly on Blue Note's books, that I could't hazard a guess as to identity. Altoists nicely contrasted: second soloist very boppish and could be Stitt, the other further "out" in the manner of James Spaulding. Structure seems to be 12 bar blues with an added bridge section. Full of verve and swing - love this one! :tup

Glad you like it, and you're right about one of the saxophonists - Sonny Stitt. The other one is not James Spaulding, but that's a great guess - that probably would have been my guess if I was hearing this cold.

Is the other sac player Charles McPherson?

Bunky Green, goddamn!!!!

From Soul in the Night.

OBO110X

MG

No it's not. It's Robin Kenyatta, In the bag, from Deuces wild. Well, I knew I had it.

Encore OBO110X

MG

Welcome back! :tup

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Track 15

Instead of the usual tenor and organ group, here we have organ and two altos. Drums as well, of course, and the organist sounds to be providing the bass line. Organist has a Jimmy Smith sound, but there were so many players like this in the 60s, particularly on Blue Note's books, that I could't hazard a guess as to identity. Altoists nicely contrasted: second soloist very boppish and could be Stitt, the other further "out" in the manner of James Spaulding. Structure seems to be 12 bar blues with an added bridge section. Full of verve and swing - love this one! :tup

Glad you like it, and you're right about one of the saxophonists - Sonny Stitt. The other one is not James Spaulding, but that's a great guess - that probably would have been my guess if I was hearing this cold.

Is the other sac player Charles McPherson?

Bunky Green, goddamn!!!!

From Soul in the Night.

OBO110X

MG

No it's not. It's Robin Kenyatta, In the bag, from Deuces wild. Well, I knew I had it.

Encore OBO110X

MG

Got it on the second try. It is indeed "In the Bag," from Stitt's album Deuces Wild, issued on Atlantic on this side of the, well, Atlantic. Robin Kenyatta guests on two cuts; this tune is his. I have the Collectables CD reissue.

Edited by jeffcrom
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BFT94

1 Sounds like Ammons. Gene, not Albert. I don’t quite recognise the tune and, without playing through seventy-three hours of Jug, I don’t know what it is. Except it’s probably not Jug.

You're the second listener who thought this tenorist was a Chicagoan. It's not Jug, or anyone from the Windy City.

2 ‘Ain’t misbehaving’ but surely not Fats Waller on piano. That would be a bit too obvious. Well, the guitarist does sound like Al Casey. And a nice tenor player. The whole thing’s really nice. The tenor player has something of a modern sound, so I think this isn’t what I think it is.

Glad you like this track. Nobody's come close, so I'll say that the tenor player and the guitarist are pretty well-known. Most folks won't recognize the pianist's name, unless perhaps they listen to a lot of Dixieland and swing.

3 Not my cup of tea. Nice intro, but all that spiky stuff from the alto player gets on my nerves a bit. I think I’m often on Eddie Condon’s side – does it go down the ear like broken glass or like honey? But even when I want some broken glass, I don’t ever want this. Is the tune ‘Round midnight?’

It's not "Round Midnight." Interesting comments; I would say that this is from the more honey-ish side of this saxophonist's output - he certainly could get very spiky at times. Also interesting that his horn has now been mistaken for an alto and a tenor.... :w

4 Oh, Klezmer! Well, I should have expected some, shouldn’t I? Now, let’s see if they go into a bit of Afrobeat. No; well I don’t know who it is, then.

If you're implying that I might have put myself into this BFT - no way! I wouldn't have the nerve.

5 Now, here’s a nice nervous bit of broken glass that I think I’d like rather a lot on those special days. On second thoughts, it lacks a certain presence – Big Jay McNeely’s, I think.

:)

6 New Orleans early forties band, I suspect. Wunnerful!!!! Fabulous!!!!!

Well, only one of the musicians is from New Orleans. (Which one?) But they're all Southerners, I think. Alex spotted Big Bill Broonzy right away. I like this track a lot, too.

7 ‘You’ve changed’ by a nice trombonist. Is it Britt Woodman? Well, very pleasant but I think you had to be there.

You know who this is by now, if you've read the thread, but I like your guess.

8 Modern musicians pretending to be cheerful entertainer chappies. I can always do without this, sorry. It’s not Les Paul on guitar, is it – it’s someone pretending to be him.

Not Les Paul - another good guess, though. Alex figured out that it's Ray McKinley's band playing an Eddie Sauter chart. This track is proving to be rather divisive....

9 Damn! The title escapes me. Is it ‘Clarinet marmalade’? Oh, a rather nice clarinet player, too. And trumpet player. Everyone’s good. Is that a different clarinet player or the same one having another go? An accordion? Sacré blue! Or Sacré orange, I suppose.

ID'ed as "That's A Plenty" with Muggsy on trumpet. I'll have to go back and listen to the clarinets. And here's Jeff's handy key for recognizing "Clarinet Marmalade" - first three notes: Loooooong, down-uuuup.

10 Well, pretty good musicians and a pretty good performance with nothing wrong with it, except it doesn’t sound like anything in particular. So my guess would be an academic band of some kind.

An obscure band (and recording), but not academic. I can see this being too "cool" for your tastes, but I dig it.

11 Time for a quick ciggie.

Now, you know that's not good for you, MG!

12 Interesting. I’ll guess Pee Wee Russell in his kind of modern phase. Haven’t heard any of his recordings in this vein, so I don’t really know. Damn good pianist, too. I think I want to buy this one.

Not Pee Wee. This is a quite recent recording.

13 Well, a different clarinet player. This is kind of interesting, too. Joe Henderson type tenor player but doesn’t have the right sound. Perhaps it’s Bennie Maupin. Well, I dunno. There was some marimba player – British I think, but from the West Indies somewhere – who used to play modern music wearing a bowler hat – other clothes as well. His music was interesting, too, but not really all that interesting. Like this.

ID'ed as "The Actor" from drummer Horacee Arnold's Tribe album. Joe Farrell on soprano, Billy Harper on tenor (you heard him in NYC, didn't you?) and Dave Friedman on marimba.

14 Another accordion! This one must be French. I really like this quite a bit. Wonder who it is. It isn’t as old as it sounds.

Alex recognized this as "Donegal Cradle Song" by Spike Hughes' American orchestra, although he has been coy about revealing the personnel - some of the giants of the time are an this. I'm not sure what you're hearing as accordion - maybe the muted trumpet section.

15 Oh, I know this one. Well, I don’t, but I’ve got it. Somewhere. Come on organist, let’s hear ya! Well, he sounds like a somewhat hesitant Charles Earland. The tune is based on ‘Impressions’ I think. I dunno. It’s a mystery. Or maybe it’s a Charles Earland tribute band…

You got it later, of course.

16 Oh, a groove thing! Sounds like Gil Scott-Heron. Now it doesn’t. Well, I doubt if Gil would have included all that gospel stuff, so I don’t know. Very nice, though. I’m looking forward to finding out who this is.

Not Gil, as you guessed. I'm pleased that listeners of all stripes seem to be enjoying this one - it really got to me when it was released.

Some really nice stuff in here, Jeff. Thanks very much.

I really pleased that you participated in this BFT. We've all missed you around here.

Now for a look at what everyone else has said...

MG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is the guitarist on #2 Billy Bauer?

Nope - it's someone stylistically "older" than Bauer, although I just looked up their birth dates; our guy is only two years older than Mr. Bauer.

Mr. Bauer was born 1915. Who is even older than Billy and played jazz guitar? Then it could be George Van Eps. I need to pull out some recording of him to compare to your selection.

Edited by Hardbopjazz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is the guitarist on #2 Billy Bauer?

Nope - it's someone stylistically "older" than Bauer, although I just looked up their birth dates; our guy is only two years older than Mr. Bauer.

Mr. Bauer was born 1915. Who is even older than Billy and played jazz guitar? Then it could be George Van Eps. I need to pull out some recording of him to compare to your selection.

Nice work! It's George Van Eps. He's never a "hot" guitar player, but he's so tasty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mr. Bauer was born 1915. Who is even older than Billy and played jazz guitar? Then it could be George Van Eps. I need to pull out some recording of him to compare to your selection.

Eddie Lang, Eddie Condon, Freddie Green, Fred Guy, ... Les Paul is close. But I don't think it's any of those. I quite like your guess of van Eps.

Edit: oh, darn! It was van Eps! Well, that makes this post look silly. :)

Edited by alex.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

#3, replace the guitar with piano and this sounds so much like Getz/Barron's People Time album, even though the horn player is on alto here.

This is certainly a tune Getz might have played. But...

I hinted at this in post #61 above: the saxophone is neither an alto or tenor. I almost didn't include this musician in my BFT, but now I'm really glad I did. His sound is so distinctive that I thought he would be instantly recognizable to anyone familiar with him. The fact that nobody has named him yet tells me that (1) he might be more of a minority, "underground" taste than I thought, and/or (2) my evil scheme to pull the wool over everyone's eyes by presenting him in an unusual setting has worked. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apologies for the absence on the last BFT. Time has been less than fleeting, but as I was typing that in the sign-up thread for BFT 95, I realized I had no excuse not to take this BFT this morning. Covered a bit of ground, didn't you? :tophat: I've been listening to a lot of older (REALLY older) stuff of late, but that didn't help me a bit. I only had two positive IDs on this, but one I have no clue what the record is. Thanks for the ear food on this chilly morning in the northeast. Now I have to go run (brrrr!!!!).

BFT 94

Track 1 - Almost has that Johnny Griffin sound, but it's too sane. It's almost too polished. Sort of Branford meets JG. I feel like there *should* be recognition, there just isn't.

Track 2 - Ain't Misbehavin'. I've been listening to a lot of stuff from this period lately, but I'm finding the sound quality hard to reconcile (and feeling very badly about that). Not a clue who we're hearing here.

Track 3 - Steve Lacy. Can't place the tune, but that progression is grabbing me and yelling at me.

Track 4 - A former student and member of the tribe told me once, "Keith, you know klezmer was initially a form of defense." Can't hear it now without hearing his remark in his voice and cracking up. No guesses.

Track 5 - Not diggin' this. It sounds like something the WSQ could make work, but this is to that what Robert Cray is to Lightnin' Hopkins. I just want somebody to let loose and play like they give a damn. Is this overdubbed?

Track 6 - Not a clue. Fits that Tom Rhodes bit about John Lee Hooker, though: "I LOVE John Lee Hooker, man... seen him four times, own 34 of his albums... near as I can tell, he's havin' some trouble with his lady."

Track 7 - I was in love with this in about 2 seconds. That *is* a french horn I'm hearing, no? No guesses.

Track 8 - No idea. It has that abstractness of Kenton, but lacks the 88 trumpets most of his arrangements have.

Track 9 - Void of clues.

Track 10 - Has the voicing of Gil Evans to my ear, but I'm not at all sure who this is. Bari player was an influence to James Carter, though. Trumpet is very familiar. The phrasing is similar to Kenny Dorham, but it's not him. A little like Art Farmer, but not quite. I like this a lot. Maybe it is Art Farmer?

Track 11 - Sounds like one of Ken Vandermark's projects to me, but I'm not positive. Was that a cell phone at the end?

Track 12 - Impressive musicianship. No guesses.

Track 13 - I like the rhythm section, but the soprano isn't doing a thing for me. That's Billy Harper on tenor, which makes this very strange and instantly more interesting. Oh! Wait a minute. Of course! The marimba should have tipped me off sooner. It's The Actor from this. I never warmed up to Farrell on this, and I typically like him. It was the drumming that tipped me off. Something wasn't fitting with the Max-derivitive feel they had going.

Track 14 - No clue

Track 15 - First alto has parts Sonny Fortune and parts Sonny Criss. Second dude is an absolute mother****er! Maybe Jimmy Heath? (Though he doesn't seem to rush the tempo like Jimmy) Is this some bad ass Charles Earland record I desperately need and don't know about? The tune is rather silly, but then, it's not really about the tune.

Track 16 - No idea, but I'm totally in. Love it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Track 15

Instead of the usual tenor and organ group, here we have organ and two altos. Drums as well, of course, and the organist sounds to be providing the bass line. Organist has a Jimmy Smith sound, but there were so many players like this in the 60s, particularly on Blue Note's books, that I could't hazard a guess as to identity. Altoists nicely contrasted: second soloist very boppish and could be Stitt, the other further "out" in the manner of James Spaulding. Structure seems to be 12 bar blues with an added bridge section. Full of verve and swing - love this one! :tup

Glad you like it, and you're right about one of the saxophonists - Sonny Stitt. The other one is not James Spaulding, but that's a great guess - that probably would have been my guess if I was hearing this cold.

GAAAH!!! How could I miss STITT!?!?!??!?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...