Larry Kart Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 It is useless to ask me because I have followed Boulez as a conductor in London for more than 25 years and have picked up all the corresponding DG recordings. I have also heard very many of the others. I find the SQ usually unacceptable in the Erato and Sony. That said, there is a much more complete representation of Schoenberg on Sony. Maybe I'm losing it, but what does "SQ" stand for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 SQ = sound quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 SQ = sound quality Thanks -- all I could think of was "string quartets," and I knew that didn't apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 "SQ" was a quad format in the '70s when Boulez was making records for Columbia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiRiIII Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) In case you missed it, ARTE WEB still offers the 90th Boulez Birthday Concert from Baden-Baden: http://concert.arte.tv/fr/concert-anniversaire-90-ans-pierre-boulez "... explosante - fixe ..." pour flûte soliste, deux flûtes, ensemble et électronique Première sonate pour piano Avec Pierre-Laurent Aimard au piano Dérive 1 Douze Notations pour piano Notations I à IV et VII pour orchestre Also, Pli selon Pli and Varese Arcana with the Ensemble Intecontemporain: http://concert.arte.tv/fr/lensemble-intercontemporain-interprete-boulez-et-varese-la-philharmonie-de-paris Finally, Boulez conducting at: http://live.philharmoniedeparis.fr/Artiste/boulez.html Edited February 25, 2015 by Alexandros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) I think you want the DG and here's why. The Erato does not contain his Messiaen. It does contain some essential recordings of his own works - the ones that appear in the DG Boulez Oeuvres complètes box. So it is between Columbia and DG and I will tackle this by talking through the Columbia contents. I have reservations about the sound quality both as to period recording techniques and to the mastering on the individual disks (but I don't know if they have been remastered). Bartok: there is more Bartok on the DG and some of it is outstanding. I don't know the Columbia Bartok though. Beethoven: you don't need this Berg: more here than on DG, but you might want to hear his Lulu, which is on DG but not on Columbia. Berio: none of this on DG so if you want it... Berlioz: not on the DG box but DG did record Symphonie Fantastique which is great and you might want to hear Boulez: if you are interested in his work you will want eventually to pick up the Oeuvres Complètes, which includes several of these Columbia recordings. The DG recordings include many later works not on Columbia Carter: if you want to hear these works there is no alternative... Debussy: the DG are fine and some is in great sound, there is also more, but NOT the opera which you will want to hear if that work interests you Dukas: neither here nor there Falla: idem Handel: come on Mahler: not in DG box but here is a DG Boulez/Mahler box and there is not much here Messaien: benefits a lot from more modern sound recording, and there is more on DG Ravel: I don't know the Columbia Ravel but the DG Ravel is wonderful - I guess Ravel is the most suited of all to PB's approach. A few items here that were not recorded for DG. Roussel: not core Schoenberg: you do want this for the range - much more than on DG - but what there is on DG is fine Scriabin: again a lone work and not the reason to buy this box Stravinsky: the DG Stravinsky is really good and there is more of it, I think. Your exception here might be Rite, but you don't need to buy the box just for that. Varèse: more of it on Columbia and this is probably preferable Wagner: odds and ends Webern: I prefer the clarity of the later recordings which I think suits Webern. One way or another you want to have Boulez' Webern. I won't go through it but there is a lot by other composers on DG which is not on Columbia so obviously if you want those things there is no alternative. So yes to Columbia on Schoenberg and Varèse, maybe for Berg of which there is more, and yes to the Columbia Rite and as point of comparison Pli selon pli, and other Boulez/Boulez on Columbia, as the approach is less beautiful, and the differences are interesting. And while I haven't singled them out there are some great individual discs on DG. The repertoire there is also much more to the point as things like the Beethoven, Handel, Roussel etc as noted are no more than of historical interest. Edited February 26, 2015 by David Ayers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 On the other hand, just use Spotify. If I don't buy box sets myself I can hardly suggest that anyone else should. Treat the above as an exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 IMO, most of the DG Second Viennese School (Schoenberg, Berg, Webern) recordings are rather antiseptic compared to most of the Columbia recordings, although not the the later Ensemble Intercomperanien (sp?) ones,which are beginning to veer toward antiseptic/detached territory. Boulez's terrific Vega "Pierrot Lunaire" with Helga Pilarcyzk doesn't even sound like the same work as the EC one with (I think) Yvonne Minton or the DG one with Christine Oelze either. OTOH, the Columbia Berg Chamber Concerto, with Barenboim and Gawriloff, is a mess on both performance and textual grounds (Boulez doesn't take the first movement exposition repeat because he thinks it's only of numerological, not musical, significance). Even worse is the Columbia Berg Violin Concerto with Zukerman. OTOH, that disc does include a fine Three Pieces for Orchestra. As for Bartok, the Columbia Boulez "Bluebeard's Castle" with Troyanas is sensational. As someone one once said, 'CBS should release the last "door" as a single.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 The best Bluebeard is always the next one. Mine comes in two weeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiRiIII Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 The Columbia box includes the long unavailable recording of "Le Marteau sans maitre" with Minton (issued on CD only once in Japan in the late 80s). His best recording of this work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 The only actual staging of Bluebeard's Castle I ever saw was the Canadian production by Robert Lepage, in a double bill which also included Erwartung. Now that really was something. I think maybe I have seen another but I am assuming it was forgettable as I have all but forgotten it. Good spot on Marteau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiRiIII Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 IMO, most of the DG Second Viennese School (Schoenberg, Berg, Webern) recordings are rather antiseptic compared to most of the Columbia recordings, although not the the later Ensemble Intercomperanien (sp?) ones,which are beginning to veer toward antiseptic/detached territory. Boulez's terrific Vega "Pierrot Lunaire" with Helga Pilarcyzk doesn't even sound like the same work as the EC one with (I think) Yvonne Minton or the DG one with Christine Oelze either. OTOH, the Columbia Berg Chamber Concerto, with Barenboim and Gawriloff, is a mess on both performance and textual grounds (Boulez doesn't take the first movement exposition repeat because he thinks it's only of numerological, not musical, significance). Even worse is the Columbia Berg Violin Concerto with Zukerman. OTOH, that disc does include a fine Three Pieces for Orchestra. As for Bartok, the Columbia Boulez "Bluebeard's Castle" with Troyanas is sensational. As someone one once said, 'CBS should release the last "door" as a single.' Indeed. His recent Philips recording (Uchida) of the Berg Chamber cto omits the repeat again. He should have recorded the Berg cto with a more deserving violinist indeed [e.g. with Kavakos in Cleveland a decade ago]. But these Three Pieces for Orchestra are great. Also, the Columbia box includes the Berg's Altenberg Lieder with Lukomska - one of his great records not to be missed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 IMO, most of the DG Second Viennese School (Schoenberg, Berg, Webern) recordings are rather antiseptic compared to most of the Columbia recordings, although not the the later Ensemble Intercomperanien (sp?) ones,which are beginning to veer toward antiseptic/detached territory. Boulez's terrific Vega "Pierrot Lunaire" with Helga Pilarcyzk doesn't even sound like the same work as the EC one with (I think) Yvonne Minton or the DG one with Christine Oelze either. OTOH, the Columbia Berg Chamber Concerto, with Barenboim and Gawriloff, is a mess on both performance and textual grounds (Boulez doesn't take the first movement exposition repeat because he thinks it's only of numerological, not musical, significance). Even worse is the Columbia Berg Violin Concerto with Zukerman. OTOH, that disc does include a fine Three Pieces for Orchestra. As for Bartok, the Columbia Boulez "Bluebeard's Castle" with Troyanas is sensational. As someone one once said, 'CBS should release the last "door" as a single.' Indeed. His recent Philips recording (Uchida) of the Berg Chamber cto omits the repeat again. He should have recorded the Berg cto with a more deserving violinist indeed [e.g. with Kavakos in Cleveland a decade ago]. But these Three Pieces for Orchestra are great. Also, the Columbia box includes the Berg's Altenberg Lieder with Lukomska - one of his great records not to be missed I've heard that the Altenberg Lieder with Lukomska are great, but I've never found a copy of that recording. Also, I'm deeply attached to the Beardslee-Craft Altenberg Lieder, the recording that began my long romance with the Second Viennese School some 56 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Guys, thanks for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 these both are IMO indispensable recordings....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 OTOH, as thrilling as Boulez's "Bluebeard's Castle" is, I think that Ferencsik's (his second) is the best recording: Bluebeard's Castle by Béla Bartók performed in Hungarian Conductor János Ferencsik - 1970(STU) Orchestra - Budapest Philharmonic Orchestra Black Disc; - Hungaroton LPX 11486 {1LP} (1971)ª;; Hungaroton SLPX 11486 {1LP} (1971)ª Compact Disc; - Hungaroton HCD 11486 {1CD} (1997)ª ª(year of issue or re-issue) Bluebeard - György Melis Judith - Kátalin Kasza ------------------------------------------------------------------ I have and need both Boulez's and this one. Don't know about this video version with the same parties (lip-synched to the recording?), but wow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 OTOH, as thrilling as Boulez's "Bluebeard's Castle" is, I think that Ferencsik's (his second) is the best recording: Bluebeard's Castle by Béla Bartók performed in Hungarian Conductor János Ferencsik - 1970(STU) Orchestra - Budapest Philharmonic Orchestra Black Disc; - Hungaroton LPX 11486 {1LP} (1971)ª;; Hungaroton SLPX 11486 {1LP} (1971)ª Compact Disc; - Hungaroton HCD 11486 {1CD} (1997)ª ª(year of issue or re-issue) Bluebeard - György Melis Judith - Kátalin Kasza ------------------------------------------------------------------ I have and need both Boulez's and this one. Don't know about this video version with the same parties (lip-synched to the recording?), but wow: thnx for the hint Larry, have to give this a try....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Cover star of this month's BBC Music Magazine: Though no music on the disc. He's clearly mainstream now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Happy 90th Pierre! I'm more interested in his own compositions, but there's no doubt he's conducted and recorded some of the most interesting music of the 20th century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Happy 90th Pierre! I'm more interested in his own compositions, but there's no doubt he's conducted and recorded some of the most interesting music of the 20th century. What interests you about his composition compared to those of his like minded avant- contemporaries? Except maybe the 'landmark'(-ish) piano sonatas, Boulez the composer is second rate. He's written relatiely little and then tediously, endlessly fiddled with that not because he's a "perfectionist" but because he has a paucity of ideas, most of which are midding at best. Boulez can be an excellent conductor, though very few of his DG era recordings demonstrate that and even there, the repertoire he's chosen to record has been pretty goddamn middlebrow, for all his ersatz high modernism shuck. Indeed, Boulez's for an erstwhile "radical," Boulez has shown remarkably provincial, pedestrian tastes, especially given his long-term state & corporate subsidized power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uli Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Boulez' top 10 http://soundcheck.wnyc.org/story/10-great-works-20th-century-pierre-boulezs-90th-birthday/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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