Hardbopjazz Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Regardless of how we feel about Lorraine Gordon, I'm glad there is a Village Vanguard and I can go there so often. Since it is a New York Landmark, it will remain the Vanguard when she retires or checks out, but will it be the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Regardless of how we feel about Lorraine Gordon, I'm glad there is a Village Vanguard and I can go there so often. Since it is a New York Landmark, it will remain the Vanguard when she retires or checks out, but will it be the same? I'll let you in on a secret----against my better judgement: Fat Cat IMO is the hippest joint in NYC and the best deal. $3 to get in to hear musicians that smoke anyone you could hear at the Vanguard (except perhaps the Orchestra, which John Mosca has done a great job of leading for years now). Smalls is also a great deal. I admit my prejudice b/c both employ my friends and myself. But I believe I speak the truth. Plus 'the cats' can't afford admission and can only get in if they know someone or have saved their sheckels. Fat Cat and Smalls have never turned anyone away, and customers get to stay for every set of three different bands until 4 or 5 AM. Your call. Let's face it: The jazz greats that made the Vanguard what it was are long gone---either that or, like Sonny Rollins or Ahmad Jamal (both of whom I heard there in the glory pre-Lorraine days) won't work there anymore. I won't name names but IMO other than Tom Harrell most of the people playing the Vanguard are not even close to the best out there. So why not save money and let it---and Lorraine---ride? I'll give her one thing: it's not her fault the greats died off (actually, on 2nd thought....just kidding). She wants to stay in business and the name still brings in customers, so why not? But the Vanguard had its day, and more than earned its place in history. Now it's over. From the ashes will rise new Phoenixes. That's the cycle of life. Edited February 10, 2012 by fasstrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Regardless of how we feel about Lorraine Gordon, I'm glad there is a Village Vanguard and I can go there so often. Since it is a New York Landmark, it will remain the Vanguard when she retires or checks out, but will it be the same? I'll let you in on a secret----against my better judgement: Fat Cat IMO is the hippest joint in NYC and the best deal. $3 to get in to hear musicians that smoke anyone you could hear at the Vanguard (except perhaps the Orchestra, which John Mosca has done a great job of leading for years now). Smalls is also a great deal. I admit my prejudice b/c both employ my friends and myself. But I believe I speak the truth. Plus 'the cats' can't afford admission and can only get in if they know someone or have saved their sheckels. Fat Cat and Smalls have never turned anyone away, and customers get to stay for every set of three different bands until 4 or 5 AM. Your call. Let's face it: The jazz greats that made the Vanguard what it was are long gone---either that or, like Sonny Rollins or Ahmad Jamal (both of whom I heard there in the glory pre-Lorraine days) won't work there anymore. I won't name names but IMO other than Tom Harrell most of the people playing the Vanguard are not even close to the best out there. So why not save money and let it---and Lorraine---ride? I'll give her one thing: it's not her fault the greats died off (actually, on 2nd thought....just kidding). She wants to stay in business and the name still brings in customers, so why not? But the Vanguard had its day, and more than earned its place in history. Now it's over. From the ashes will rise new Phoenixes. That's the cycle of life. Leaving Lorraine's personality aside and relative cost of clubs, this overstates the case so drastically it's laughable. First, to suggest that Sonny Rollins not playing the Vanguard is an indictment is to ignore the fact that Sonny hasn't played any nightclub anywhere in literally decades, stopping long before Max died. Second, here's the lineup at the club for the first quarter of the year. We can all argue about taste, and everyone can find fault with this guy or that guy and point to others that should get the gigs as we construct our own ideal line-up, etc -- I certainly am not enamored with all of these players. But just using these three months as a baseline, to say that "most of the people playing the Vanguard are not even close to the best out there" seems more rooted in stylistic preferences and prejudices than an objective survey of what's being offered. January 03 - January 08 BRAD MEHLDAU TRIO Larry Grenadier-b, Jeff Ballard-d January 10 - January 15 GERI ALLEN, ESPERANZA SPALDING, TERRI LYNE CARRINGTON January 17 - January 22 CHRIS POTTER QUARTET David Virelles-p, Joe Martin-b, Marcus Gilmore-d January 24 - January 29 BARRY HARRIS TRIO Ray Drummond-b, Leroy Williams-d January 31 - February 05 JEFF "TAIN" WATTS QUARTET David Kikoski-p, Marcus Strickland-sax, Orlando LeFleming-b February 07 - February 12 FRED HERSCH TRIO John Hebert-b, Eric McPherson-d February 14 - February 19 MARK TURNER QUARTET Avishai Cohen-tpt, Joe Martin-b, Marcus Gilmore-d February 21 - February 26 FABIAN ALMAZAN TRIO Linda Oh-b, Henry Cole-d, February 28 - March 04 KURT ROSENWINKEL QUARTET Aaron Parks-p, Eric Revis-b, Justin Faulkner-d March 06 - March 11 AL FOSTER QUARTET J. D. Allen-sax, Adam Birnbaum-p, Dezron Douglas-b March 13 - March 18 THE HEATH BROTHERS Jimmy Heath-sax, Albert "Tootie" Heath-d, Jeb Patton-p, David Wong-b March 20 - March 25 BILL McHENRY QUARTET Bill McHenry-sax, Orrin Evans-p, Eric Revis-b, Andrew Cyrille-d March 27 - April 01 ENRICO PIERANUNZI TRIO April 03 - April 08 CRAIG TABORN TRIO April 10 - April 15 TOM HARRELL QUINTET Tom Harrell-tpt, Wayne Escoffery-sax, Danny Grissett-p, Ugonna Okegwo-b, Johnathan Blake-d April 17 - April 22 JOSHUA REDMAN TRIO Joshua Redman-sax, Reuben Rogers-b Greg Hutchinson-d April 24 - April 29 ROY HARGROVE QUINTET Edited February 10, 2012 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Regardless of how we feel about Lorraine Gordon, I'm glad there is a Village Vanguard and I can go there so often. Since it is a New York Landmark, it will remain the Vanguard when she retires or checks out, but will it be the same? I'll let you in on a secret----against my better judgement: Fat Cat IMO is the hippest joint in NYC and the best deal. $3 to get in to hear musicians that smoke anyone you could hear at the Vanguard (except perhaps the Orchestra, which John Mosca has done a great job of leading for years now). Smalls is also a great deal. I admit my prejudice b/c both employ my friends and myself. But I believe I speak the truth. Plus 'the cats' can't afford admission and can only get in if they know someone or have saved their sheckels. Fat Cat and Smalls have never turned anyone away, and customers get to stay for every set of three different bands until 4 or 5 AM. Your call. Let's face it: The jazz greats that made the Vanguard what it was are long gone---either that or, like Sonny Rollins or Ahmad Jamal (both of whom I heard there in the glory pre-Lorraine days) won't work there anymore. I won't name names but IMO other than Tom Harrell most of the people playing the Vanguard are not even close to the best out there. So why not save money and let it---and Lorraine---ride? I'll give her one thing: it's not her fault the greats died off (actually, on 2nd thought....just kidding). She wants to stay in business and the name still brings in customers, so why not? But the Vanguard had its day, and more than earned its place in history. Now it's over. From the ashes will rise new Phoenixes. That's the cycle of life. Leaving Lorraine's personality aside and relative cost of clubs, this overstates the case so drastically it's laughable. First, to suggest that Sonny Rollins not playing the Vanguard is an indictment is to ignore the fact that Sonny hasn't played any nightclub anywhere in literally decades, stopping long before Max died. Second, here's the lineup at the club for the first quartet of the year. We can all argue about taste, and everyone can find fault with this guy or that guy and point to others that should get the gigs as we construct our own ideal line-up, etc -- I certainly am not enamored with all of these players. But just using these three months as a baseline, to say that "most of the people playing the Vanguard are not even close to the best out there" seems more rooted in stylistic preferences and prejudices than an objective survey of what's being offered. As always, Your mileage may vary. JANUARY 2012 January 03 - January 08 BRAD MEHLDAU TRIO Larry Grenadier-b, Jeff Ballard-d January 10 - January 15 GERI ALLEN, ESPERANZA SPALDING, TERRI LYNE CARRINGTON January 17 - January 22 CHRIS POTTER QUARTET David Virelles-p, Joe Martin-b, Marcus Gilmore-d January 24 - January 29 BARRY HARRIS TRIO Ray Drummond-b, Leroy Williams-d January 31 - February 05 JEFF "TAIN" WATTS QUARTET David Kikoski-p, Marcus Strickland-sax, Orlando LeFleming-b February 07 - February 12 FRED HERSCH TRIO John Hebert-b, Eric McPherson-d February 14 - February 19 MARK TURNER QUARTET Avishai Cohen-tpt, Joe Martin-b, Marcus Gilmore-d February 21 - February 26 FABIAN ALMAZAN TRIO Linda Oh-b, Henry Cole-d, February 28 - March 04 KURT ROSENWINKEL QUARTET Aaron Parks-p, Eric Revis-b, Justin Faulkner-d March 06 - March 11 AL FOSTER QUARTET J. D. Allen-sax, Adam Birnbaum-p, Dezron Douglas-b March 13 - March 18 THE HEATH BROTHERS Jimmy Heath-sax, Albert "Tootie" Heath-d, Jeb Patton-p, David Wong-b March 20 - March 25 BILL McHENRY QUARTET Bill McHenry-sax, Orrin Evans-p, Eric Revis-b, Andrew Cyrille-d March 27 - April 01 ENRICO PIERANUNZI TRIO April 03 - April 08 CRAIG TABORN TRIO April 10 - April 15 TOM HARRELL QUINTET Tom Harrell-tpt, Wayne Escoffery-sax, Danny Grissett-p, Ugonna Okegwo-b, Johnathan Blake-d April 17 - April 22 JOSHUA REDMAN TRIO Joshua Redman-sax, Reuben Rogers-b Greg Hutchinson-d April 24 - April 29 ROY HARGROVE QUINTET Go overpay to hear the great Esperanza Spaulding, then. Enjoy yourself. I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 For what it's worth, bassist Peter Washington told me last week that he heard that Allen/Spaulding/Carrington trio (a cooperative by the way) and that the group sounded beautiful -- he was knocked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 actually, with sonny, I don't think he meant this was a dislike of the Vanguard - only that Sonny could no longer work there for financial reasons - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValerieB Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Regardless of how we feel about Lorraine Gordon, I'm glad there is a Village Vanguard and I can go there so often. Since it is a New York Landmark, it will remain the Vanguard when she retires or checks out, but will it be the same? I'll let you in on a secret----against my better judgement: Fat Cat IMO is the hippest joint in NYC and the best deal. $3 to get in to hear musicians that smoke anyone you could hear at the Vanguard (except perhaps the Orchestra, which John Mosca has done a great job of leading for years now). Smalls is also a great deal. I admit my prejudice b/c both employ my friends and myself. But I believe I speak the truth. Plus 'the cats' can't afford admission and can only get in if they know someone or have saved their sheckels. Fat Cat and Smalls have never turned anyone away, and customers get to stay for every set of three different bands until 4 or 5 AM. Your call. Let's face it: The jazz greats that made the Vanguard what it was are long gone---either that or, like Sonny Rollins or Ahmad Jamal (both of whom I heard there in the glory pre-Lorraine days) won't work there anymore. I won't name names but IMO other than Tom Harrell most of the people playing the Vanguard are not even close to the best out there. So why not save money and let it---and Lorraine---ride? I'll give her one thing: it's not her fault the greats died off (actually, on 2nd thought....just kidding). She wants to stay in business and the name still brings in customers, so why not? But the Vanguard had its day, and more than earned its place in history. Now it's over. From the ashes will rise new Phoenixes. That's the cycle of life. Leaving Lorraine's personality aside and relative cost of clubs, this overstates the case so drastically it's laughable. First, to suggest that Sonny Rollins not playing the Vanguard is an indictment is to ignore the fact that Sonny hasn't played any nightclub anywhere in literally decades, stopping long before Max died. Second, here's the lineup at the club for the first quartet of the year. We can all argue about taste, and everyone can find fault with this guy or that guy and point to others that should get the gigs as we construct our own ideal line-up, etc -- I certainly am not enamored with all of these players. But just using these three months as a baseline, to say that "most of the people playing the Vanguard are not even close to the best out there" seems more rooted in stylistic preferences and prejudices than an objective survey of what's being offered. As always, Your mileage may vary. JANUARY 2012 January 03 - January 08 BRAD MEHLDAU TRIO Larry Grenadier-b, Jeff Ballard-d January 10 - January 15 GERI ALLEN, ESPERANZA SPALDING, TERRI LYNE CARRINGTON January 17 - January 22 CHRIS POTTER QUARTET David Virelles-p, Joe Martin-b, Marcus Gilmore-d January 24 - January 29 BARRY HARRIS TRIO Ray Drummond-b, Leroy Williams-d January 31 - February 05 JEFF "TAIN" WATTS QUARTET David Kikoski-p, Marcus Strickland-sax, Orlando LeFleming-b February 07 - February 12 FRED HERSCH TRIO John Hebert-b, Eric McPherson-d February 14 - February 19 MARK TURNER QUARTET Avishai Cohen-tpt, Joe Martin-b, Marcus Gilmore-d February 21 - February 26 FABIAN ALMAZAN TRIO Linda Oh-b, Henry Cole-d, February 28 - March 04 KURT ROSENWINKEL QUARTET Aaron Parks-p, Eric Revis-b, Justin Faulkner-d March 06 - March 11 AL FOSTER QUARTET J. D. Allen-sax, Adam Birnbaum-p, Dezron Douglas-b March 13 - March 18 THE HEATH BROTHERS Jimmy Heath-sax, Albert "Tootie" Heath-d, Jeb Patton-p, David Wong-b March 20 - March 25 BILL McHENRY QUARTET Bill McHenry-sax, Orrin Evans-p, Eric Revis-b, Andrew Cyrille-d March 27 - April 01 ENRICO PIERANUNZI TRIO April 03 - April 08 CRAIG TABORN TRIO April 10 - April 15 TOM HARRELL QUINTET Tom Harrell-tpt, Wayne Escoffery-sax, Danny Grissett-p, Ugonna Okegwo-b, Johnathan Blake-d April 17 - April 22 JOSHUA REDMAN TRIO Joshua Redman-sax, Reuben Rogers-b Greg Hutchinson-d April 24 - April 29 ROY HARGROVE QUINTET Go overpay to hear the great Esperanza Spaulding, then. Enjoy yourself. I'm done. you should be done! your argument is absolutely ridiculous, colored obviously by your biases and lack of common sense. you are feebly attempting to compare oranges with Rolls Royces. (just a bit of exaggeration on my part!!) LOL the clubs you mention (wonderful as they are) couldn't begin to afford to even pay the Vanguard lineups! For what it's worth, bassist Peter Washington told me last week that he heard that Allen/Spaulding/Carrington trio (a cooperative by the way) and that the group sounded beautiful -- he was knocked out. they are fabulous! and TLC is playing with various configurations of those who recorded with her on Mosaic. they're all wonderful, extremely creative musicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 The people at Fat Cat are practically saints and are doing more for talented but lesser-known musicians than anyone >>. Yeah, but in that place, it's the argumentative jerk musicians like Dwayne Clemons, not the management, who get into it with the paying customers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Regardless of how we feel about Lorraine Gordon, I'm glad there is a Village Vanguard and I can go there so often. Since it is a New York Landmark, it will remain the Vanguard when she retires or checks out, but will it be the same? I'll let you in on a secret----against my better judgement: Fat Cat IMO is the hippest joint in NYC and the best deal. $3 to get in to hear musicians that smoke anyone you could hear at the Vanguard (except perhaps the Orchestra, which John Mosca has done a great job of leading for years now). Smalls is also a great deal. I admit my prejudice b/c both employ my friends and myself. But I believe I speak the truth. Plus 'the cats' can't afford admission and can only get in if they know someone or have saved their sheckels. Fat Cat and Smalls have never turned anyone away, and customers get to stay for every set of three different bands until 4 or 5 AM. Your call. Let's face it: The jazz greats that made the Vanguard what it was are long gone---either that or, like Sonny Rollins or Ahmad Jamal (both of whom I heard there in the glory pre-Lorraine days) won't work there anymore. I won't name names but IMO other than Tom Harrell most of the people playing the Vanguard are not even close to the best out there. So why not save money and let it---and Lorraine---ride? I'll give her one thing: it's not her fault the greats died off (actually, on 2nd thought....just kidding). She wants to stay in business and the name still brings in customers, so why not? But the Vanguard had its day, and more than earned its place in history. Now it's over. From the ashes will rise new Phoenixes. That's the cycle of life. Leaving Lorraine's personality aside and relative cost of clubs, this overstates the case so drastically it's laughable. First, to suggest that Sonny Rollins not playing the Vanguard is an indictment is to ignore the fact that Sonny hasn't played any nightclub anywhere in literally decades, stopping long before Max died. Second, here's the lineup at the club for the first quartet of the year. We can all argue about taste, and everyone can find fault with this guy or that guy and point to others that should get the gigs as we construct our own ideal line-up, etc -- I certainly am not enamored with all of these players. But just using these three months as a baseline, to say that "most of the people playing the Vanguard are not even close to the best out there" seems more rooted in stylistic preferences and prejudices than an objective survey of what's being offered. As always, Your mileage may vary. JANUARY 2012 January 03 - January 08 BRAD MEHLDAU TRIO Larry Grenadier-b, Jeff Ballard-d January 10 - January 15 GERI ALLEN, ESPERANZA SPALDING, TERRI LYNE CARRINGTON January 17 - January 22 CHRIS POTTER QUARTET David Virelles-p, Joe Martin-b, Marcus Gilmore-d January 24 - January 29 BARRY HARRIS TRIO Ray Drummond-b, Leroy Williams-d January 31 - February 05 JEFF "TAIN" WATTS QUARTET David Kikoski-p, Marcus Strickland-sax, Orlando LeFleming-b February 07 - February 12 FRED HERSCH TRIO John Hebert-b, Eric McPherson-d February 14 - February 19 MARK TURNER QUARTET Avishai Cohen-tpt, Joe Martin-b, Marcus Gilmore-d February 21 - February 26 FABIAN ALMAZAN TRIO Linda Oh-b, Henry Cole-d, February 28 - March 04 KURT ROSENWINKEL QUARTET Aaron Parks-p, Eric Revis-b, Justin Faulkner-d March 06 - March 11 AL FOSTER QUARTET J. D. Allen-sax, Adam Birnbaum-p, Dezron Douglas-b March 13 - March 18 THE HEATH BROTHERS Jimmy Heath-sax, Albert "Tootie" Heath-d, Jeb Patton-p, David Wong-b March 20 - March 25 BILL McHENRY QUARTET Bill McHenry-sax, Orrin Evans-p, Eric Revis-b, Andrew Cyrille-d March 27 - April 01 ENRICO PIERANUNZI TRIO April 03 - April 08 CRAIG TABORN TRIO April 10 - April 15 TOM HARRELL QUINTET Tom Harrell-tpt, Wayne Escoffery-sax, Danny Grissett-p, Ugonna Okegwo-b, Johnathan Blake-d April 17 - April 22 JOSHUA REDMAN TRIO Joshua Redman-sax, Reuben Rogers-b Greg Hutchinson-d April 24 - April 29 ROY HARGROVE QUINTET Go overpay to hear the great Esperanza Spaulding, then. Enjoy yourself. I'm done. Jeez - is that the best you can do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I have never had a bad experience with Lorraine. I found her obviously genuine fondness for Jabbo to be a very positive thing. It isn't easy to run a jazz club in NYC and so many of those who have were despicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) The people at Fat Cat are practically saints and are doing more for talented but lesser-known musicians than anyone >>. Yeah, but in that place, it's the argumentative jerk musicians like Dwayne Clemons, not the management, who get into it with the paying customers!! Dwayne never comes in Fat Cat. Smalls is his stomping grounds. I saw him there once in 6 years. We played pool with two ladies who said they owned a clothing store (I visited and they turned out to be employees and not so friendly this time). I know Dwayne since the '80s. We played in a band one summer. Nobody's perfect. He's cool with musicians. Maybe he was juiced or the guy got in his face. It's usually---the rare times it happens---customers that get out of line, never musicians. And the staff is very restrained in dealing with problem kids. I went to hear Bob Mover with Ehud Asherie last week and it was like old Jews week. We embraced (I hadn't seen Bob in around 4 years, and had been asking after him), told off-color jokes. Then they played. Everything was cool until some kid playing one of the games---undoubtedly an entitled brat from Jersey---started getting loud and obnoxious. His blonde trophy girlfriend was looking at him worshipfully. He was asked to be quiet by another customer. I won't repeat what he said in mixed (hi, Valerie) company, but entitled brats from Jersey talk that way. Another guy motioned him over to talk about it. He repeated the same vulgarity and added the now-immortal line 'if I come over there I'll hone you'. By the 2nd set he made more noise and finally I turned around to say 'Shut the F up, asshole'. He made an unkind reference to my age. Jason, on drums, was getting pissed and made some loud protest cymbal crashes. Fortunately, Rich Boy fell out after one mixed drink too many---girlfriend still looking worshipfully, now down at him collapsed in a chair. Ever the gentleman, I went over to the guy who motioned to the loudmouth and told him 'I just want you to know if that kid would have come over I swear I would've held your coat'. I walked away smugly self-satisfied, deluding myself as usual with the self-view of a funny guy. When I saw the pianist Ehud---who had been busy playing aleading the gig and didn't know exactly what was going on---the next week I told him the kid told the would-be saviour of us all 'I'll hone you'. He cracked up. And thus a classic phrase, heretofore unheard-of by me, was born1 The end Edited February 11, 2012 by fasstrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Quote Valerieb: you should be done! your argument is absolutely ridiculous, colored obviously by your biases and lack of common sense. you are feebly attempting to compare oranges with Rolls Royces. (just a bit of exaggeration on my part!!) LOL the clubs you mention (wonderful as they are) couldn't begin to afford to even pay the Vanguard lineups! Edited February 11, 2012 by fasstrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I've come to like Smalls a lot in recent years. It is in fact much more friendly and welcoming than the Village Vanguard. The sound is good, if not as good as at the Vanguard. It's certainly a lot better deal--if you want to hear two or three groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) For what it's worth, bassist Peter Washington told me last week that he heard that Allen/Spaulding/Carrington trio (a cooperative by the way) and that the group sounded beautiful -- he was knocked out. Terri-Lynne is a great drummer and has been for years. Gerri Allen is an intersting pianist. She did a nice job a few years back arranging for alto, trumpet and rhythm for an Andy Bey gig. Edited February 11, 2012 by fasstrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmonahan Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I've smiled as I've read all this back and forth about New York jazz clubs. I don't know if others out here in the hinterland share my view, but I'll just say that those of you who are able to frequent *any* of these clubs are damned lucky. gregmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Regardless of how we feel about Lorraine Gordon, I'm glad there is a Village Vanguard and I can go there so often. Since it is a New York Landmark, it will remain the Vanguard when she retires or checks out, but will it be the same? I'll let you in on a secret----against my better judgement: Fat Cat IMO is the hippest joint in NYC and the best deal. $3 to get in to hear musicians that smoke anyone you could hear at the Vanguard (except perhaps the Orchestra, which John Mosca has done a great job of leading for years now). Smalls is also a great deal. I admit my prejudice b/c both employ my friends and myself. But I believe I speak the truth. Plus 'the cats' can't afford admission and can only get in if they know someone or have saved their sheckels. Fat Cat and Smalls have never turned anyone away, and customers get to stay for every set of three different bands until 4 or 5 AM. Your call. Let's face it: The jazz greats that made the Vanguard what it was are long gone---either that or, like Sonny Rollins or Ahmad Jamal (both of whom I heard there in the glory pre-Lorraine days) won't work there anymore. I won't name names but IMO other than Tom Harrell most of the people playing the Vanguard are not even close to the best out there. So why not save money and let it---and Lorraine---ride? I'll give her one thing: it's not her fault the greats died off (actually, on 2nd thought....just kidding). She wants to stay in business and the name still brings in customers, so why not? But the Vanguard had its day, and more than earned its place in history. Now it's over. From the ashes will rise new Phoenixes. That's the cycle of life. I've been to the Fat Cat several times and have enjoyed it. My only issue is the noise level from the people playing pool and other games there. Smalls is also a great bargain at $20 for all the sets for the night. There has to be room for all the clubs. My least favorite is the Blue Note, but that's just my personal opinion. For what it's worth, bassist Peter Washington told me last week that he heard that Allen/Spaulding/Carrington trio (a cooperative by the way) and that the group sounded beautiful -- he was knocked out. I was at one set, mainly to hear Geri Allen. It was real good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I've smiled as I've read all this back and forth about New York jazz clubs. I don't know if others out here in the hinterland share my view, but I'll just say that those of you who are able to frequent *any* of these clubs are damned lucky. gregmo Yes, please send the Blue Note (the worst major New York jazz club) to Dallas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValerieB Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) i think everyone here is supportive and appreciative of ALL the jazz clubs in NYC. i know i am. from L.A., i pay to stream Small's and get to as many clubs as possible when i'm visiting. that was not the disagreement on this thread. it was just the "bashing" and "put-down" of Lorraine Gordon and the Village Vanguard, who some of us feel is due respect and gratitude, in spite of her being testy at times. what she continues to do in her late eighties is absolutely amazing and i am totally appreciative whether i'd want her for my Valentine or not! p.s. actually the Blue Note is my least favorite for a number of reasons but i will go there to support musicians i love! Edited February 11, 2012 by ValerieB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) I've been to the Fat Cat several times and have enjoyed it. My only issue is the noise level from the people playing pool and other games there. Smalls is also a great bargain at $20 for all the sets for the night. There has to be room for all the clubs. My least favorite is the Blue Note, but that's just my personal opinion. There are musicians I know that don't like that. The piano player I used last time was thrown off by the pool players. But w/o missing a beat he asked how to get his own gig.... Personally the noise (and this is definitely weird since I'm super-sensitive to noise and the everyday sounds people tune out drive me bats) relaxes me. To me, since they knocked the wall to the separate music room down Fat Cat has ruled. It's affordable, ridiculously so, so people are already in a good mood before you play. It gave a lot of good under-the-radar players exposure. There's even a string quartet here, and a gospel group. My old college mate Arturo O' Farrill rehearses a HS Latin band Sunday afternoons---and on and on. I myself play better here (literally here, where I'm typing from) than anywhere in NY. First of all there is no pressure on a band b/c people can choose to listen, play pool, make out in the corner, etc. A few sofas always fill up with listeners. Last time the tip cup (and the pay is not bad besides) was brimming. And I was playing originals! I've always played and enjoyed playing 'background music' especially when I earn the audience's ear and they come to the foreground. If they don't it's cool, too, and relaxes me. It's been a historical function of music and a way a lot of very good musicians have survived. And it's not unheard-of to get other gigs from playing background. Fat Cat is not exactly background or 'foreground'. It's functional music made by very good players and people have a choice where the music should be in their evening. That's kind of unique to me. The main point is this harkens back to a time when jazz was what Miles Davis called 'social music'. The musicians are part of what's going on---part of the joint's social fabric with no partition, like the old days where musicians were guys and gals in the neighborhood everyone knew and respected for sure---but who didn't put on airs. To me the players and audience are a partnership. We have to play something worth hearing for them to drop everything and listen raptly for a set. That's the test anyway. No law says people have to sit like at a Sunday sermon so when they do based on you sounding good and reaching them and not some critic telling them it's good or other nonsense like that you've done well. But if they walk around or play a little pool that's fine by me. I'm not by nature a concert-giver, enamored of situations where people are sitting waiting for you to do something to them. I like something looser and this is my favorite setting, where the music is at the center of the action but isn't the center. We're in it together, IMO the way it should be. Edited February 11, 2012 by fasstrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imeanyou Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Keith Jarrett at The Vanguard, that's a gig I'd pay to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Keith Jarrett at The Vanguard, that's a gig I'd pay to see. I saw him there, around 1976. My favorite memory was the attitude of the waitstaff. Jarrett came out, and announced that he wanted complete silence during their performance...and that the waitstaff should not serve drinks during the performance. Around 5 minutes into the set, my waitress came by to take my drink order. I said to her, smiling, what about Jarrett's request? She rolled her eyes and carried on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imeanyou Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Interesting, I suppose The Vanguard was still a bigger deal than Keith at that time. Did he finish his set? Were you reprimanded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Interesting, I suppose The Vanguard was still a bigger deal than Keith at that time. Did he finish his set? Were you reprimanded? The waitstaff cleverly timed their clinking of glasses to coincide with the great one's insufferable vocalizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Interesting, I suppose The Vanguard was still a bigger deal than Keith at that time. Did he finish his set? Were you reprimanded? Life carried on as expected: I (and everyone else at the Vanguard) got their drinks, and the band played on. Reprimanded?? I think the bigger threat to the Vanguard was the waitstaff walking out en masse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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