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All Things Hat

491 posts in this topic

I hear you. But we know from Chuck Nessa among others how tricky the economy of these things is - and CD is a declining market whether we like it or not.

But yeah, I won't buy that new stuff, and it is easy for me to be relaxed about the oop CD titles as I already have them. I don't take a harsh view though - it is just one of those things in life, and in fairness there are quite a few great hat titles that *are* in print...

True, it's a tricky economy, which is why what he's doing really makes even less sense.

Okay, I am beating a dead horse.

Nooo - the horse is alive! There's always hope! ;)

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Now I am Mr. Blue Train. Makes me feel so much older.

With the Ran Blake there have/will be now several hat releases by other labels (the fact that another label is/will be releasing any McPhee hat's tells anyone what anyone needs to know).....my guess is that is how he is now paying for this snoozefest announcement.

He has to own the masters....just the Braxton alone.....Braxton could have just released them on his Braxton House label and make a killing if he owned the rights to them. If Braxton and all the others don't own them....only one person does.

The mind-boggling thing is he's sitting on stuff he could make two pressings of the usual 3,000 reissues...., but keeps releasing things very few are interested in....which explains the financial problems.

Well, the NYT called Meat Loaf, Mr. Loaf. :w:tophat:

Edited by jlhoots

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Now I am Mr. Blue Train. Makes me feel so much older.

With the Ran Blake there have/will be now several hat releases by other labels (the fact that another label is/will be releasing any McPhee hat's tells anyone what anyone needs to know).....my guess is that is how he is now paying for this snoozefest announcement.

He has to own the masters....just the Braxton alone.....Braxton could have just released them on his Braxton House label and make a killing if he owned the rights to them. If Braxton and all the others don't own them....only one person does.

The mind-boggling thing is he's sitting on stuff he could make two pressings of the usual 3,000 reissues...., but keeps releasing things very few are interested in....which explains the financial problems.

Well, the NYT called Meat Loaf, Mr. Loaf. :w:tophat:

Yeah, but I am a good 40 - 42 or so years younger and in better shape! Still not used to anyone calling me Mr., or Sir....for a second I think my Pops must have shown up. :alien:

Edited by Blue Train

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Now I am Mr. Blue Train. Makes me feel so much older.

With the Ran Blake there have/will be now several hat releases by other labels (the fact that another label is/will be releasing any McPhee hat's tells anyone what anyone needs to know).....my guess is that is how he is now paying for this snoozefest announcement.

He has to own the masters....just the Braxton alone.....Braxton could have just released them on his Braxton House label and make a killing if he owned the rights to them. If Braxton and all the others don't own them....only one person does.

The mind-boggling thing is he's sitting on stuff he could make two pressings of the usual 3,000 reissues...., but keeps releasing things very few are interested in....which explains the financial problems.

Well, the NYT called Meat Loaf, Mr. Loaf. :w:tophat:

Yeah, but I am a good 40 - 42 or so years younger and in better shape! Still not used to anyone calling me Mr., or Sir....for a second I think my Pops must have shown up. :alien:

Your day will come. :w

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Now I am Mr. Blue Train. Makes me feel so much older.

With the Ran Blake there have/will be now several hat releases by other labels (the fact that another label is/will be releasing any McPhee hat's tells anyone what anyone needs to know).....my guess is that is how he is now paying for this snoozefest announcement.

He has to own the masters....just the Braxton alone.....Braxton could have just released them on his Braxton House label and make a killing if he owned the rights to them. If Braxton and all the others don't own them....only one person does.

The mind-boggling thing is he's sitting on stuff he could make two pressings of the usual 3,000 reissues...., but keeps releasing things very few are interested in....which explains the financial problems.

Well, the NYT called Meat Loaf, Mr. Loaf. :w:tophat:

Yeah, but I am a good 40 - 42 or so years younger and in better shape! Still not used to anyone calling me Mr., or Sir....for a second I think my Pops must have shown up. :alien:

Your day will come. :w

As it comes to everyone....but no need rushing it. ;)

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&%$%^##@% annoying! I need these Braxtons on disc.

Edited by erwbol

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I hear you. But we know from Chuck Nessa among others how tricky the economy of these things is - and CD is a declining market whether we like it or not.

But yeah, I won't buy that new stuff, and it is easy for me to be relaxed about the oop CD titles as I already have them. I don't take a harsh view though - it is just one of those things in life, and in fairness there are quite a few great hat titles that *are* in print...

True, it's a tricky economy, which is why what he's doing really makes even less sense.

Okay, I am beating a dead horse.

Nooo - the horse is alive! There's always hope! ;)

Well, the horse is alive in that Mr. Uehlinger prefers to release some new music rather than reissue what has been out (and can be found, I guess, if you really need it ... although it might be very pricy, but if there's real need ...). Can't blame him for that.

But regardless I'd sure wish for some reissues, there's lots of stuff I never had a chance to hear that I'd love to hear (as opposed to I "need" to hear it ... there's no need, just as there's no entitlement).

The money I talked of above was meant as: talk him into doing those reissues on the base of donating him a few thousand bucks ...

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I sent an email to Mr. Uehlinger 2 months ago to talk about these future Braxton reissues (Willisau 91, Dortmund). He knows that there is a real need for these reissues.

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I sent an email to Mr. Uehlinger 2 months ago to talk about these future Braxton reissues (Willisau 91, Dortmund). He knows that there is a real need for these reissues.

He should!

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Not to stoke the speculation even more, but it's worth noting that the Upcoming Releases section has been greatly reduced to:

664 Steve Lacy & Mal Waldron • Mostly Monk
[reissue parts of hatOLOGY 4-596]
665 Jacob Braverman • In The Shadow
676 Steve Lacy & Mal Waldron • Originals
[reissue parts of hatOLOGY 4-596]
678 Anthony Braxton • Quartet (Santa Cruz) 1993
[reissue of hatART 2-6190]
680 Cecil Taylor • Garden
[reissue of hatART 6050 & 6051]
694 Steve Lantner Quartet • End Over End
700 Anthony Braxton • Quartet (Willisau) 1991
[reissue of hatART 4-6100
701 Steve Lacy Four • Morning Joy...Paris Live
[reissue of hatOLOGY 556]
702 Anthony Braxton • Quartet (Dortmund ) 1976
[reissue of hatOLOGY 557]

  • 664S

Samuel Blaser also has plans to record for the label in 2014.

Edited by colinmce

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I noticed the shortened list a while ago but their site was malfunctioning and I couldn't copy and paste here.

I agree there's not much point in speculating, but the fact it has been revised shows at least that the program is 'live'.

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I don't see the rationale behind 664 and 676 ... the four disc set already omitted a track (with Rava added, I think?) that I'm probably never going to hear ...

But it's good to see "Garden" and "Willisau (1991)" still on the list! (701 and 702 are both friggin' great, but I have the previous editions, so ...)

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I decided to buy a near mint copy of Braxton's Willisau set the other day. That Hat release schedule is a joke.

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Seems I'm about the last one here willing to cut Mr. Uehlinger some slack ... honestly, even if he did stop releasing new stuff and kept bringing on those in-demand reissues ... do you really think he could make a good living from that?

I think it's the music business that's a joke, the music stores are worse than a joke around here (and have been for close to ten years by now), and the attitude of quite some consumers (I can get a PD Blue Note reissue for 4€, why should a Hat disc cost 15? It's worth only 4€, since that's what the other disc goes for! Oh, and I can get it for free in the internets anyways ...) is a joke, too - and a bad one, at that.

So, bottom line: if it's not feasible to even do those small batches of 3000 reissues because there's just not enough interest, what do you expect? (And yeah, I think even the Braxton would last for a few years ...)

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I'm glad there's plans for a new Lantner and a new Blaser next year.

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What Ubu said.

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I was just expressing my frustration at seeing these Braxtons as scheduled for release in the near future (first on DMG's site) for years now. I was gullible enough to believe these reissues would see the light of day sooner rather than later.

Another issue I have with Hat are their stupid digipaks which scratch up any disc before it even reaches the consumer. They look nice but are among the most idiotic in choice of material around. Couldn't Mr. Uehlinger have held a few CDs under lamplight after the first batch was released or even when samples of these cards were first provided?

Point taken about the music business, record stores and the average consumer.

Edited by erwbol

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What Ubu said, except illegal duplication is the source of this, not PD. On this board the anger deflected on to PD and streaming is all displaced guilt. Everyone has a justification for doing it (blame the owners they won't reissue it! Blame euro PD, they 'stole' it and so will I!). For that reason we don't talk about it, but it is the one factor. Well, that and lack of interest and market saturation. Who needs 200 Anthony Braxton records? No disrespect...

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Streaming music is (currently) rubbish unless your ears are nostalgic for AM radio and you're willing to pay a subscription fee for it.

And for artists with huge discographies like Braxton it is important that their best albums remain available to a new generation of listeners (in optimal sound quality).

Edited by erwbol

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Agree the missing Braxtons are key. But, guess what, they are available to anyone who doesn't need the uh hard copy. But you already know that don't you? Luckily for me I'm one of the 3000 owners of the original. These days anyone doing a CD reissue does so knowing that everybody who has access to google has already got their stuff, so they are only selling to those who voluntarily pay. We've seen all the rationalisations for that over the years on this board among the people who purport to care for and support the music.You can have as much music as you ever need, and everything you want, for nothing. Why pay more? It isn't only blogs and torrenting, it is all the private trading, and it is all the trading of bootlegs as well - if you've got the 20 or 40 Sam Rivers or Roscoe concerts that have circulated, maybe that's all you need. Oh plus a sneaky copy or two because 'I spend so much on music anyway'.

That's the market.

I bought Willisau when it was issued in 1992. I paid about 44 UKP, which at today's USD prices would be well over $100. If hat issued Willisau at that price almost everyone would say it was too much and stick to their flacs. So hat already have to issue it at lower cost, with lower revenues for everybody concerned, and even then most people will say they are waiting for it to come down, or they'll pick it up sometime, etc.

These are just facts about the market. And this is what the fans are doing, not some 'other' people - only fans give a damn.

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Well, I paid around 60 or 70 € for an in-shop copy of the Waldron/Lacy 4CD set ... that was the regular price around here back then. And sure I've been doing some complaining about crazy prices here, but then in the end it's all good.

If all those who "have" "Hum Dono" and "Zodiac" would actually step up and buy real copies, we might indeed have seen real reissues of those long ago (guess what? this also works the other way 'round ... when a label does a reissue and no one buys it, they won't do the next one they had been planning ...)

So yeah, I'm pleading guilty of grabbing OOP stuff when I can ... but whenever I get a chance to right the wrong (the wrong being - in most cases - not the label not putting it out, the wrong being me "having" it even though I shouldn't), I am very happy to do so. If there were thousands in that boat, we might still get more jazz reissues ... but it seems it's a pretty small and un-crowded boat, alas. (And no, I'm no better than others ... I've got other shortcomings, I'm sure!)

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What Ubu said, except illegal duplication is the source of this, not PD. On this board the anger deflected on to PD and streaming is all displaced guilt. Everyone has a justification for doing it (blame the owners they won't reissue it! Blame euro PD, they 'stole' it and so will I!). For that reason we don't talk about it, but it is the one factor. Well, that and lack of interest and market saturation. Who needs 200 Anthony Braxton records? No disrespect...

Yes, in this case it's not PD labels fault, of course!

And there, even though the "they stole it and so will I game" is surely going on, it STILL seems feasible ... Fresh Sound for one is going strong, and all the satellites keep popping up and going "boof" as they have for a decade or so now. Not sure what that tells us though.

As for streaming being crap ... I tend to generally agree, but when it comes down to music consumption nowadays, with smartphones, mp3 players, computers with crappy soundcards and cheapo built-in speakers ... I'm not sure it matters that much. Sometimes I just hook up my notebook to the amplifier when playing concerts found on youtube, or when listening to an org BFT or something like that ... and it doesn't bother me too much. I guess this "streaming being crap"-thing is one that really applies to those with stereos they invested thousands of any hard currency in - and those are a very small minority.

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So, bottom line: if it's not feasible to even do those small batches of 3000 reissues because there's just not enough interest, what do you expect? (And yeah, I think even the Braxton would last for a few years ...)

As I said before, Mr. Uehlinger knows that many people are waiting for the 3 Braxton reissues and they should appear soon.

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I was disappointed to visit the hat website and find that, while in the past when you clicked on the cover an image of the rear cover came up, now all that comes up is a grainy image of the front cover. The old way was so much better - really useful! I am surprised this was changed. I wonder if there was a reason.

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an email to them might bring an answer?

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