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Robert Glasper


Stefan Wood

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"NY Jazz records" are those where everybody shows up to BURN instead of to play. And they try OH so hard and it's OH so obvious that they're trying, and..true burning don't need all that. It's not just a "NY" thing, but cats get all caught up in that scene and get all tight about shit and feel the need to BURN all the time, and in the rest of the world, it just ain't ALL about that, if you know what I mean. We got back yards and back roads and...stuff like that.

"Marketplace records" are those where the "production team" (including the players, often enough) get together and say, "let's make sure this is aimed t the marketplace. Let's do what we need to do to make it sound like that". And for certain jazz artists/producers, that "NY Burn" is a part of that, even on more populist material. So it ends up with everybody playing down instead of playing to.

What Glasper % Payton have done (or seem to have done to me) is more like "let's just make some R&B the way we'd like it to be". And why not?.I don't senbse that the music itself is contrived or condescending (in fact, Payton's shit is pretty left field in spots).

Garrett's Black Hope is such an album too, but nobody really got hip to it. I'd like to hope that he still has some more like that in him, because that tone of his,,. it speaks of things besides just Burning & Playing Down.

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"NY Jazz records" are those where everybody shows up to BURN instead of to play. And they try OH so hard and it's OH so obvious that they're trying, and..true burning don't need all that. It's not just a "NY" thing, but cats get all caught up in that scene and get all tight about shit and feel the need to BURN all the time, and in the rest of the world, it just ain't ALL about that, if you know what I mean. We got back yards and back roads and...stuff like that.

Sounds like a job for Manfred.

"We got back yards and back roads and...fjords."

Edited by A Lark Ascending
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And that's how they do it...and how they should do it.

That most of it is of no interest to me just means that fjords don't resonate with me, not that fjords are off-limits.

Same thing with standing in a 12" asbestos circle and "burning" to no end other than to have a burn...if that's your world, cool, but...that ain't everybody's world, and for many people, that's by informed choice.

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"NY Jazz records" are those where everybody shows up to BURN instead of to play. And they try OH so hard and it's OH so obvious that they're trying, and..true burning don't need all that. It's not just a "NY" thing, but cats get all caught up in that scene and get all tight about shit and feel the need to BURN all the time, and in the rest of the world, it just ain't ALL about that, if you know what I mean. We got back yards and back roads and...stuff like that.

Sounds like a job for Manfred.

"We got back yards and back roads and...fjords."

Ice baby!

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What about all of those Prestige blowing sessions where so many of our heroes "burned" for the sake of burning? That NY too?

I think you're overthinking this. I may be biased, but the fact is, jazz as it existed in at least as far back as the 1930's would not be as revered by all y'all if it were not for that New York thang. Let's just say, I don't like the term. Not everything is so calculated, ya know? As a lifelong New Yawka, I've almost always found that the people that think they know the most about it, actually know the least.

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What about all of those Prestige blowing sessions where so many of our heroes "burned" for the sake of burning? That NY too?

Absolutely.

But -

Different time, different scene, different business/career models, different drugs (generally speaking, cocaine is not the best possible jazz drug, neither as an ongoing proposition nor as a lingering after-effect), different music, different everything.

That was cats coming to play, not to burn.

True burning happens, it's not set out for before even one note is played.

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Hey, different strokes and all that. Me, I've never been that much of a fan of it to begin with (when the Liebman/Grossman thing was "all the rage" back in the 70s, I was not leading the cheers, if you know what I), and am even less of one now. Nothing "wrong" with it, just not relevant to me personally, not as much as a lot of other stuff, past, present, and, hopefully, future, including musics emanating from New York City. Just not that one kind with that one feeling. Seems like the meaning of "tight" has taken a turn for the worse of the last few decades. But that's just me.

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Hey, different strokes and all that. Me, I've never been that much of a fan of it to begin with (when the Liebman/Grossman thing was "all the rage" back in the 70s, I was not leading the cheers, if you know what I), and am even less of one now. Nothing "wrong" with it, just not relevant to me personally, not as much as a lot of other stuff, past, present, and, hopefully, future, including musics emanating from New York City. Just not that one kind with that one feeling. Seems like the meaning of "tight" has taken a turn for the worse of the last few decades. But that's just me.

If you wanna hear a "correct" NY thang, might I suggest that you check out some David Binney, and stay away from the fucking Eric Alexanders of the world. K?

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So, what were Tribe Called Quest/Jungle Brothers/the Roots doing? JDilla? I respect what Glasper is trying to do, but again, to say this is new is ignoring a lot of recent history.

The JDilla reference on a jazz board made my day. Awesome.

Dilla with Glasper would have been a very interesting combo. Dilla died much too young.

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There's a lot of possibilities here...having Shafiq do more than a vocal cameo would be cool...Madlib's "worked with" Blue Note in the past (not sure who the "in" was there), but...there are definitely possibilities if both Glasper and Blue Note really want to go there.

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I just had a chance to listen to the first half hour or so. What's not to like? It sounds to me like a very well-produced r&b album. I'll buy this.

Where is this "way ahead" stuff coming from? Are y'all trying to create an argument that this is not the way ahead for jazz? This isn't even a jazz record!

That was pretty much my reaction too. I read this thread and went over to Spotify. Couldn't believe the album I was hearing was the one everyone here was talking about!

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There's a lot of possibilities here...having Shafiq do more than a vocal cameo would be cool...Madlib's "worked with" Blue Note in the past (not sure who the "in" was there), but...there are definitely possibilities if both Glasper and Blue Note really want to go there.

Agreed. This is more successful than Blue Note having Us3 besides "Cantaloop" being a single. They went nowhere in American popular visibility after that.

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Madlib has been making "jazz" records for years under various monikers.

I think the Shades Of Blue project could have been so much better had he not been relegated to the BN catalog exclusively. If the focus was BN-centric, not BN-only, I imagine it would sound more Madlib. It is definitely not a prime example of his mixing ability.

This is sold as a jazz festival, but everyone knows better.

http://exactchangeproject.com/robert-glasper-experiment-featuring-mf-doom/.

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reasonably fun thread to read through. it reminded me of the end of a review i wrote 'bout 7 years ago. it applies to a few records every year:

"The media affair regarding [insert current 'it' artist name here] is well underway. [insert title of current 'it' artist's release here] may lead some critics to celebrate the arrival of the "future of jazz," or cause others to feel compelled to refute such claims. But the reality is not so black and white. Those who are preoccupied with finding an artist to label the "future of jazz" can't see the trees for the forest. Innovation is sometimes incremental and often not easy to detect. It's all a continuum. We need faith that the pursuit of excellence supplies the energy to keep jazz moving forward. Innovation need not always be a "change of the century." It often hides in the shadows, tucked into a brilliant corner like a precocious child smiling to himself with a secret. There may well be such a child tucked into [insert title of current 'it' artist's release here]."

Edited by thedwork
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well, innovation almost always comes, in the short term, as a radical vision - it's only afterwards, with perspective, that the continuum is clear, if it ever is. I remember Joe Albany telling me how astoundingly new Bird seemed, and how almost over night everything else - Prez, Armstrong - seemed hopelessly old fashioned. It's always been that way - with Ornette, Beckett, Cecil Taylor, Rite of Spring, Dada, Albert Ayler. Or read Larry Kart on Roscoe Mitchell.

Edited by AllenLowe
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I was asked to write a column in one of the New York Jazz monthlies and in one draft, I sort of took on the phenomena without being specific to one artist.

It was annoying me a bit seeing the cover of Down Beat and other publications going on and on about the stuff being the future of jazz etc etc.

I think most of you have it right and wish you guys were the status quo. How is a well done hip hop or pop record pushing the jazz envelope exactly.....

Since I have some regrets about cutting all of that out of my piece, I'm going to post it here. I wound up just writing a piece trying to put a positive spin on the state of jazz today, that there is some good stuff out here, some presenters and clubs get it right and have an audience etc etc.

Here is the part I cut out...

This fruitless search of the new thing or trying to sell something as the new, groundbreaking thing has bought

us to the point where we are being told that artists with jazz backrounds making pop and hip-hop CDs is the newest, groundbreaking thing, even the future

of jazz. Said artists are even proclaiming in print that they are pushing the music forward and doing something completely new. It’s easy to think you are

making history if you don’t know your history. There have been jazz musicians working in pop, soul, R&B, funk, hip-hop music since the invention of said

musics. Most of the Motown session musicians were jazz musicians first. This is nothing new. The only difference was those guys weren’t on the cover of Down

Beat saying they are breaking new ground because they can excel in both styles. Sometimes I think we are reliving the ‘70’s which was the last time straight

ahead jazz had a down period of sorts and fusion and the avant garde were at the forefront until we had our fill of that and Dexter Gordon came home and

Wynton Marsalis burst onto the scene. The only difference between now and then was back then, the jazz artists who began to dabble in electric instruments

were maligned as selling out and these days when you make the transition it is proclaimed as a bold new step and moving the music forward. But that is

symptomatic of the world we live in today. Since major labels (what’s left of them anyway) are part of large corporations and large corporations want to sell

a lot of product, jazz has adopted a pop mentality when it comes to breaking a new artist which is why a lot of our new jazz stars seemingly come out of

nowhere with very little experience. Pop is all about breaking new stars, putting a ton of money into a new act and seeing if they take off and now it

seems like the jazz world is doing the same thing. It’s nice to see these artists on David Letterman and for Letterman to call them jazz artists but they

are playing pop and hip-hop. They sound good of course, they are good musicians but is calling pop and hip-hop jazz because it’s performed by musicians with a

jazz backround really helping jazz in the long run? If jazz is dying and not connecting with the youth of today as some say, is this really a long term answer?

Despite all this, I still think jazz is in great shape. There are a lot of great bands in all genres of the music performing today so it is still possible to see this music performed

at a high level. I just wish things were a little more balanced. For young people to be truly exposed to this music, they need to be exposed to all of it.

I don’t think young people only want to hear music created by people their own age though they do perhaps have the notion that only people their own age are

hip. I think like everyone else, they want to hear good music, something that moves them and excites them and perhaps if they were exposed to some of the

unsung guys out here still carrying the torch and playing music of great beauty with passion and intensity and at it’s highest level they might find a true, deep love for

this music and venture on from there.

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Sometimes I think we are reliving the '70's which was the last time straight

ahead jazz had a down period of sorts and fusion and the avant garde were at the forefront until we had our fill of that and Dexter Gordon came home and

Wynton Marsalis burst onto the scene. The only difference between now and then was back then, the jazz artists who began to dabble in electric instruments

were maligned as selling out...

Another difference is that some of the people who heard those 70s albums actually liked - and still like - some of them, and see no reason to not like them, or to incorporate that which they like into their own stuff. Nothing at all wrong with that.

One more difference is that today some people recognize that some of that stuff was actually good music, period. Not everybody, of course.

Remember "Bebop Is The Music Of The Future"? Nice try, that was.

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Too bad you cut it. Yeah, some of it is disparaging, but you get it. I'm still surprised to read folks here comparing this to a jazz record.

Yeah, I regret it a little but you kind of have to walk on eggshells out here, everyone is a little touchy and it's easy to get in trouble and get a reputation for being...I don't know....a dick I guess.....

I was following a similar thread to this on a jazz journalists blog (he talked of this being the future and how important it is to keep things simple for the people) and posted a comment much more sugar coated then what I said above and it is still "waiting moderation" a month later while the discussion continues. No fun at all.......

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Sometimes I think we are reliving the '70's which was the last time straight

ahead jazz had a down period of sorts and fusion and the avant garde were at the forefront until we had our fill of that and Dexter Gordon came home and

Wynton Marsalis burst onto the scene. The only difference between now and then was back then, the jazz artists who began to dabble in electric instruments

were maligned as selling out...

Another difference is that some of the people who heard those 70s albums actually liked - and still like - some of them, and see no reason to not like them, or to incorporate that which they like into their own stuff. Nothing at all wrong with that.

One more difference is that today some people recognize that some of that stuff was actually good music, period. Not everybody, of course.

Remember "Bebop Is The Music Of The Future"? Nice try, that was.

Yes, of course.....but I still read thinly veiled put downs of this era when reading current stuff about Wayne Shorter or Freddie or any of these guys. The sell out phrase is so ingrained into the history of this era that none of these guys shake it entirely. I was reading a recent article on Wayne that referred to "the dark period" or something to that effect. I was once asked in an interview how I felt when all my heroes sold out. My first response was I was 7 at the time so it didn't hurt so much but then I got into how they all made great records in that period, as good in it's way as their acoustic stuff. Herbie Hancock's Thrust, Wayne Shorter's Atlantis, a lot of the Miles stuff, it's all great and all has a lot of soloing in it (unlike the Glasper CD). I still love them all and play them, they're great records.

Bebop is the Music of the Future, we just haven't arrived at that future yet, but just wait, it's coming........you'll see, some 14 year old will have learned all of Charlie Parker's solos and, oh wait, never mind.......

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