PHILLYQ Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Houston will be in the AL West beginning next season in order to even out the divisions. Currently there are only LA of Anaheim, Oakland, Seattle, and Texas. It's the only division like it. It will be fairer to the other divisions if there is more competition for the top spot. I felt that Milwaukee should have been the one reassigned to the AL since they started there. One new problem that creates is now there will be interleague play all season, as there's an odd number of teams in each league. To DH or not DH, that is the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 So long, Pudge: http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/7830099/ivan-rodriguez-retire-texas-ranger-monday-source-says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalupa Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Serious slug fest going on in San Francisco right now. Phillies and Giants tied 0-0 going into the bottom of the 9th. Edit: top of the 10th, 0-0. Edited April 19, 2012 by J.H. Deeley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturalSoul Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Here's Cliff Lee and Matt Cain's pitching lines from tonight's Phillies-Giants game: Cliff Lee - 10 IP, 7 H's, 7 K's 102 Pitches Matt Cain - 9 IP, 2 H's, 4 K's, 91 Pitches Neither got the win, Giants won in the 11th inning. Unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 what? No love for Jamie Moyer, the oldest player to ever win a MLB game???? http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=320417127 I'm glad there is still one guy in baseball older than me! check out who were on the Phils for his first start in 1986! http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN198606160.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 what? No love for Jamie Moyer, the oldest player to ever win a MLB game???? Well, he is a married man w/ 8 kids. Don't want to break up the family... Lotsa love. I really came to appreciate his way of pitching when he was a Mariner. I hope he's pitching at 50 too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 what? No love for Jamie Moyer, the oldest player to ever win a MLB game???? Well, he is a married man w/ 8 kids. Don't want to break up the family... Lotsa love. I really came to appreciate his way of pitching when he was a Mariner. I hope he's pitching at 50 too! I do, too. The George Blanda of baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Hoyt Wilhelm. 50. I know, knuckleballer, reliever, didn't win a game after 1970 andpitched until mid-72. But those were consecutive seasons, and 50 is still 50, so...let's not forget, that's all I'm saying. But Moyer does my heart good, fersure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Hoyt Wilhelm. 50. I know, knuckleballer, reliever, didn't win a game after 1970 andpitched until mid-72. But those were consecutive seasons, and 50 is still 50, so...let's not forget, that's all I'm saying. But Moyer does my heart good, fersure! Mine, too. As to relievers: It really galls me when a refief man wins a Cy Young. I remember seeing red when Eric Gagne took a Cy Young away from a far more deserving Jason Schmidt; 17-5 full time pitcher and in a 5-day rotation. Relievers pitch an inning here and an inning there. Gagne getting 72 saves is an accomplishment, no doubt. But a Cy Young on the strength of a 2-3 record? C'mon. Edited April 20, 2012 by GoodSpeak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave James Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) As to relievers: It really galls me when a refief man wins a Cy Young. I remember seeing red when Eric Gagne took a Cy Young away from a far more deserving Jason Schmidt; 17-5 full time pitcher and in a 5-day rotation. Relievers pitch an inning here and an inning there. Gagne getting 72 saves is an accomplishment, no doubt. But a Cy Young on the strength of a 2-3 record? C'mon. Got to disagree with that. A reliever's W-L record means very little. The Cy Young award is really an MVP (Most Valuable Pitcher). To blow off someone who was instrumental in winning 55 (not 72) games and who in the process carded an ERA of a buck twenty (the only one lower since the AL and NL started splitting the award in 1967 was Bob Gibson's 1.12 in 1968) with a simple "C'mon" is just wrong. The Dodgers won 85 games in 2003, so Gagne has a direct hand in 65% of their victories. In addition to his 55 saves, he finished 67 games. That year, he struck out 137 batters in just 82.1 innings. That's an unheard of 15 strikeouts on a per nine inning basis. You just can't thumb your nose at numbers like these. It's nothing less than total domination. IMO, Gagne more than deserved the Cy Young in '03. Edited April 20, 2012 by Dave James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Aside from the fact that Dave wants to compare an ERA achieved in 82 innings with an ERA achieved across 300+ innings, I agree with his evaluation of Gagne's Cy Young season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Aside from the fact that Dave wants to compare an ERA achieved in 82 innings with an ERA achieved across 300+ innings... Exactly my point. As to relievers: It really galls me when a refief man wins a Cy Young. I remember seeing red when Eric Gagne took a Cy Young away from a far more deserving Jason Schmidt; 17-5 full time pitcher and in a 5-day rotation. Relievers pitch an inning here and an inning there. Gagne getting 72 saves is an accomplishment, no doubt. But a Cy Young on the strength of a 2-3 record? C'mon. Got to disagree with that. A reliever's W-L record means very little. The Cy Young award is really an MVP (Most Valuable Pitcher). To blow off someone who was instrumental in winning 55 (not 72) games and who in the process carded an ERA of a buck twenty (the only one lower since the AL and NL started splitting the award in 1967 was Bob Gibson's 1.12 in 1968) with a simple "C'mon" is just wrong. The Dodgers won 85 games in 2003, so Gagne has a direct hand in 65% of their victories. In addition to his 55 saves, he finished 67 games. That year, he struck out 137 batters in just 82.1 innings. That's an unheard of 15 strikeouts on a per nine inning basis. You just can't thumb your nose at numbers like these. It's nothing less than total domination. IMO, Gagne more than deserved the Cy Young in '03. I'm not "thumbing my nose" at Gagne's accomplishments. All I'm saying Cy Young was an everyday pitcher, not a reliever. Hence, the award needs to go to pitchers who go 300+ innings and not to spot relief/closers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Pomea Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) The won/loss record today for relievers can be misleading. On one side there's the "vulture" win -- a starter pitches masterfully for nearly the whole game but leaves when the score is tied or his team is behind, then a reliever comes in and pitches to hardly any batters at all but his team scores, goes ahead, and he ends up being the winning pitcher. The Nationals had Tyler Clippard last season "win" 11 games like that before the All Star break. (Anybody know how Elroy Face won something like 18 wins in relief one season? Were they mostly "vulture" wins like this, or did he appear for more like 3 innings at a time when he relieved a starter, thus more deserving of his wins? Clippard most commonly appeared in one inning hold situations.) To me Gagne's value that year didn't come from how many games he won or loss, but from how many he saved or held. I'd trade an 11-0 won-loss record of vulture wines for 80 saves, or whatever he ended up with. Edited April 20, 2012 by Neal Pomea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 That's not the definition of "vulture win" - that's when a relief pitcher blows a save or hold situation and gets the win when the bats pick him up. If a starter can't hold the lead while he's pitching, what has the reliever vultured from him? A no-decision? Relief pitchers in yesteryear ended up with a boatload of decisions because they pitched longer and had more chances to be the pitcher of record, for good or bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 The Vulture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) The won/loss record today for relievers can be misleading. On one side there's the "vulture" win -- a starter pitches masterfully for nearly the whole game but leaves when the score is tied or his team is behind, then a reliever comes in and pitches to hardly any batters at all but his team scores, goes ahead, and he ends up being the winning pitcher. The Nationals had Tyler Clippard last season "win" 11 games like that before the All Star break. (Anybody know how Elroy Face won something like 18 wins in relief one season? Were they mostly "vulture" wins like this, or did he appear for more like 3 innings at a time when he relieved a starter, thus more deserving of his wins? Clippard most commonly appeared in one inning hold situations.) To me Gagne's value that year didn't come from how many games he won or loss, but from how many he saved or held. I'd trade an 11-0 won-loss record of vulture wines for 80 saves, or whatever he ended up with. And I totally get that. The contribution he made to the Dodgers was undoubtedly why they did so well that year....but he was still a relief pitcher not a starter. Cy Young was a full time pitcher and the award is named for him, a starting pitcher. In a nutshell, that's my beef. That's not the definition of "vulture win" - that's when a relief pitcher blows a save or hold situation and gets the win when the bats pick him up. If a starter can't hold the lead while he's pitching, what has the reliever vultured from him? A no-decision? Relief pitchers in yesteryear ended up with a boatload of decisions because they pitched longer and had more chances to be the pitcher of record, for good or bad. Excellent point, Dan. Question: Didn't MLB used to have a relief pitcher award sponsored by Fireman's Fund Insurance or Rolaids or something? That award or one like it would be more appropriate, IMHO. Edited April 20, 2012 by GoodSpeak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Fireman Of The Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave James Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) The Rolaids Relief Man award has been given out since 1976. One in each league. Last year's winners were Detroit's Jose Valverde and Milwaukee's John Axford. Edited April 21, 2012 by Dave James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Ah, I see, Fireman Of The Year was awarded by the Sporting News (since 1960) and was changed to Reliever Of the Year. http://www.baseball-almanac.com/awards/aw_snfi.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Wow..I had no idea that The Sporting News had shrunk up so much...I had a subscription for a few years when I was a kid, and used to read it religiously every week, including the box scores. Oh well... Edited April 21, 2012 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Nobody struck out like Reggie Jax Down on one knee on a low pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 The Rolaids Relief Man award has been given out since 1976. One in each league. Last year's winners were Detroit's Jose Valverde and Milwaukee's John Axford. Thanks, Dave. Nice to know my memory hasn't faded too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalupa Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Holy crap! Top of the first in Detroit and Texas has plated 8.Currently one out and a man on third. Edit: Mid 1st. Porcello's line 7 H, 8 R, 7 ER, 1 BB, 1 SO, 1HR, 46 pitches. Edited April 21, 2012 by J.H. Deeley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalupa Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Top of the 2nd in Detroit and the first 3 Texas batters have smacked hits. 9-0. At what point do they pull the pitcher? Or maybe they leave him to spare the bullpen? Edit They yanked Porcello after the last batter. Gonna be a long day for the Detroit bullpen Edited April 21, 2012 by J.H. Deeley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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