Herbie Hancock Memoir

[JSngry]

... generally I believe it is safe to say that there are VERY few jazz pianists out there who bring so much rhythmic and harmonic variety (and diversity and spontaneity!) to their playing as Herbie does/can do....

Bud Powell?

In an essentially diatonic-based harmonic system (albeit one full of chromatic substitutional possibilities) & a rhymic world based on pushing and pulling over a steady 4/4, yeah Bud is about as much God as can had on the piano, which is to say that, yes he is one of the VERY few.

But...

[fasstrack]

I gotta stop drinking this early in the day. Seeing double.

Ha. The vagaries of cell phone-dispatched posts. Now I'm on a real computer (yaaaaaay!). New improved technology, same idiotic content. A marriage made in heaven

[ValerieB]

Having read through this thread yesterday I'm baffled about several comments made here, above all Allen's rather sweeping disdain for Hancock's music and his misguided understanding of authenticity. The imbecilic refusal to listen to "Speak Like A Child" because of its 'dumb' title in some way regrettably relativizes pretty much all of your output here. Frankly I'm puzzled, as these comments are so much at odds with my impression of you as an erudite and intelligent, even intellectual, writer and musician.

and you, Mr. Phunkey, have so eloquently stated what i so clumsily tried to say. thank you!

[fasstrack]

Pt. 2: To me he just repeated and never grew, never explored the instrument chordally, for one thing. He achieved some nice things and was talented, though. Who knows what he would've done had he straighted out? Sad. Maybe I'm picking on him b/c the romantic image of the junkie jazz musician is not only sickening horseshit drivel, it's downright destructive. People not only want to play like these guys, they want to BE them. Well, like I said, Grant was cool. Good player w/o even trying. If he tried maybe he'd of been a MF. We'll never know...

I do take what you say seriously, and I do respect your social history and achievements within the music. I am questioning what you said though. I don't believe the recorded work by Eddie Diehl justifies your position - that you have further elucidated. I find the idea that Eddie Diehl had a sound and musical opus big enough to co-exist with Tyner/Jones and Larry Young/Jones - in any way comparable to Grant Green, almost offensive to the principle of the musicians who chose to work with Grant. That you suggest Grant Green is held in over-regard because of the so-called romantic legacy of substance abuse, even more so. I am also suggesting that the decision by Grant Green to use electric instruments and play groove based music, was also an artistic decision that related to the changing music around him, as well as his ability to contribute to it. In regards to the narrative of this thread, there is nothing in these records he made (the funk ones), that suggest insincerity or unprincipled manoeuvres (made for popularities sake alone). As has also been pointed out in this thread, they probably weren't made for 'you' as an audience. It would have been retrogressive, conceptually, for him to have begun exploring 'chord-melody' at this point in time. With the reality of Black music the way it was. The direction he took with the funk albums was every bit as logical as the way Hancock ran with the more radical funk of the In A Silent Way/Bitches Brew sound towards the Headhunters. I am saying also that Grant Green 'was' a MF and he 'was' trying. He just wasn't trying to be Joe Pass. So yes, if you think not being concerned with extending the trio/standards format is lazy, well and good. I don't, compared to finding musicians who have a vision for 1969 instrumental music, working the guitar into the front line of that music without recourse to Hendrixisms - and organising the style and arrangements that will fill clubs and create the atmosphere you can hear on Alive and Live At The Lighthouse.

You just don't know Eddie's playing then. And I don't blame you. He doesn't record well and hates recording. There was a Hank Mobley record, Thinking of Home. He was OK, but sounded a million times better with just me and him jamming, which are hours and hours from the 80s, but never recorded, and live gigs I was at. The best stuff was a trio at Vassar with Jimmy Cobb and Bill Crow (but he hated it and wouldn't make me a copy) but more so a duo gig with Red Mitchell at Bradley's that Steve Berger recorded. I told him he should put that out. He actually agreed but thought Mitchell's widow would be hard to deal with or something. Bullshit. Eddie just doesn't like hearing himself on recording. I can relate. But that doesn't help my case here. Don't know what else to say. Ask other guitar players. You're not gonna sway me on Grant so let's agree to disagree. He sounds good and live and let live. Edited April 17, 2012 by fasstrack

[fasstrack]

Mr. Galbraith:

Oh man, I'm in a library and can't listen. Phuck! He recorded this on Guitar and the Wind---his lone solo date of his career (like John Collins, who only made one)---showing what a stupid world it is and always was. 'Vanity, Vanity. All is vanity....'

Is this the Art Ford Jazz Party show?

[fasstrack]

Having read through this thread yesterday I'm baffled about several comments made here, above all Allen's rather sweeping disdain for Hancock's music and his misguided understanding of authenticity. The imbecilic refusal to listen to "Speak Like A Child" because of its 'dumb' title in some way regrettably relativizes pretty much all of your output here. Frankly I'm puzzled, as these comments are so much at odds with my impression of you as an erudite and intelligent, even intellectual, writer and musician.

and you, Mr. Phunkey, have so eloquently stated what i so clumsily tried to say. thank you!

Speak Like a Child was beautifully arranged by Thad Jones. It is lyrical and beautiful as a composition and unfolds beautifully. That bass (alto? haven't heard it in years) flute is worth the price of the ticket. I wonder why Herbie never arranged for a larger ensemble. Maybe he did.

I think Herbie's self-editing over time is an important point that seems to have been missed here. It seems like he recognized that his earlier work w/Miles, etc. was almost too freewheeling and wanted to simplify. And he did, beautifully. It takes a lot of discipline to take a great, if verbose, talent and pare down. It's almost painful. But you sort of trust that the ideas will keep coming and you want to focus and be understood, so something like 'minimilization' occurs (shoot me, I'm sounding like a goddamn writer). Beckett did it with words. It's amazing to watch the trajectory from More Kicks than Pricks or Whoroscope to the novels (thick as an Irish wood)to finally Play, Eh, Joe, etc. Truly amazing.

It's only when Herbie strapped on that keyboard and did Rockit that he offended me and I turned off. That was some sell-out bullshit. That and hosting 'Rock School' on PBS. Ugh. But he's got a hell of a legacy still.

Edited April 17, 2012 by fasstrack

[Daniel A]

He is playing chords on Search For The New Land on some of the tunes.

Grant plays chords behind Herbie's piano solo on 'Mr. Kenyatta' and they seem to clash few times; I would rather have heard that solo without guitar.

damn - now I can't read the bible -

Maybe if it had a really good cover?

Edited April 17, 2012 by Daniel A

[fasstrack]

Maybe if it had a really good cover?

How about "Give me That Old Time Religion"?

[fasstrack]

Well, Herbie has acknowledged the influence of Chris Anderson.

I'm glad that Herbie acknowledged Chris---who was my friend and whose playing I adore---and that Chris got some play behind Herbie saying he studied with Chris. But I never heard what Herbie got from Chris. Ever. They're both very discursive, rambling, and with great harmonic ears but so, so different. Chris leaves a lot of space, especially in his rubato playing, and to me is a more authentic bluesman, even if he dips in and out. Burt Eckoff, a fine pianist who knew Chris longer and better than me, swears that he has recordings of Herbie where you can hear Chris's influence. I'd like to hear that.

[Pete C]

I hear a connection in the touch, for one thing.

[ep1str0phy]

Having read through this thread yesterday I'm baffled about several comments made here, above all Allen's rather sweeping disdain for Hancock's music and his misguided understanding of authenticity. The imbecilic refusal to listen to "Speak Like A Child" because of its 'dumb' title in some way regrettably relativizes pretty much all of your output here. Frankly I'm puzzled, as these comments are so much at odds with my impression of you as an erudite and intelligent, even intellectual, writer and musician.

and you, Mr. Phunkey, have so eloquently stated what i so clumsily tried to say. thank you!

Speak Like a Child was beautifully arranged by Thad Jones. It is lyrical and beautiful as a composition and unfolds beautifully. That bass flute is worth the price of the ticket. I wonder why Herbie never arranged for a larger ensemble. Maybe he did.

I think Herbie's self-editing over time is an important point that seems to have been missed here. It seems like he recognized that his earlier work w/Miles, etc. was almost too freewheeling and wanted to simplify. And he did, beautifully. It takes a lot of discipline to take a great, if verbose, talent and pare down. It's almost painful. But you sort of trust that the ideas will keep coming and you want to focus and be understood, so something like 'minimilization' occurs (shoot me, I'm sounding like a goddamn writer). Beckett did it with words. It's amazing to watch the trajectory from More Kicks than Pricks or Whoroscope to the novels (thick as an Irish wood)to finally Play, Eh, Joe, etc. Truly amazing.

It's only when Herbie strapped on that keyboard and did Rockit that he offended me and I turned off. That was some sell-out bullshit. That and hosting 'Rock School' on PBS. Ugh. But he's got a hell of a legacy still.

Are we talking more of a compositional/idiomatic simplification or an instrumental simplification? I'm not sure he's gotten less verbose or idea packed in the years after Miles (or even after Mwandishi, when he made a really self-conscious attempt to "connect" with listeners), going by his solo piano work, the duet with Wayne Shorter, or any of his live acoustic jazz after the early 70's (to say nothing of VSOP). Even stuff like Future 2 Future is drawn out in its own way.

If you mean, though, that he began to compartmentalize his creative id and got more deliberate about when/where the experimentation occurred, then I can totally see what you mean; Herbie before '74 (or even before the end of the first Headhunters band) can be an adventure to listen to--you don't know which version of him will turn up. The live Mwandishi bootlegs are sort of the zenith of this, much more so than Herbie's work with the Miles band--this music is at times aggressively idea dense and often very drawn out, and it's the only time that Herbie seemed to allow, at length, his various personalities (the funky/commercial Herbie, the various experimental Herbies, the more bop derivative Herbie, the composer with an ear for complex orchestration) to coexist. Later than Mwandishi, even when Herbie's own playing surprises, the context is usually more or less predictable.

[Larry Kart]

Well, Herbie has acknowledged the influence of Chris Anderson.

I'm glad that Herbie acknowledged Chris---who was my friend and whose playing I adore---and that Chris got some play behind Herbie saying he studied with Chris. But I never heard what Herbie got from Chris. Ever. They're both very discursive, rambling, and with great harmonic ears but so, so different. Chris leaves a lot of space, especially in his rubato playing, and to me is a more authentic bluesman, even if he dips in and out. Burt Eckoff, a fine pianist who knew Chris longer and better than me, swears that he has recordings of Herbie where you can hear Chris's influence. I'd like to hear that.

I think it's the Chris of the mid to late '50s that Herbie learned from. It's my impression, having heard CA some in-person back then and on the recordings he made around that time, especially the VeeJay album, that he was playing rather differently then than he was in his later "very discursive, rambling" years, fascinating as that later manner was.

[JSngry]

If anybody's got the VGM side of Miles in St. Louis (1963), there a brief filler cut of Herbie "we call him 'Oatmeal' because he's done in three minutes" Hancock playing "Like Someone In Love" with a trio (Cleveland Eaton, Theodore Robinson), recorded in 1961 (June 24th, to be exact) that may or may not show a Chris Anderson influence. I don't know, but it's there if anybody who might wants to see.

[fasstrack]

Having read through this thread yesterday I'm baffled about several comments made here, above all Allen's rather sweeping disdain for Hancock's music and his misguided understanding of authenticity. The imbecilic refusal to listen to "Speak Like A Child" because of its 'dumb' title in some way regrettably relativizes pretty much all of your output here. Frankly I'm puzzled, as these comments are so much at odds with my impression of you as an erudite and intelligent, even intellectual, writer and musician.

and you, Mr. Phunkey, have so eloquently stated what i so clumsily tried to say. thank you!

Speak Like a Child was beautifully arranged by Thad Jones. It is lyrical and beautiful as a composition and unfolds beautifully. That bass flute is worth the price of the ticket. I wonder why Herbie never arranged for a larger ensemble. Maybe he did.

I think Herbie's self-editing over time is an important point that seems to have been missed here. It seems like he recognized that his earlier work w/Miles, etc. was almost too freewheeling and wanted to simplify. And he did, beautifully. It takes a lot of discipline to take a great, if verbose, talent and pare down. It's almost painful. But you sort of trust that the ideas will keep coming and you want to focus and be understood, so something like 'minimilization' occurs (shoot me, I'm sounding like a goddamn writer). Beckett did it with words. It's amazing to watch the trajectory from More Kicks than Pricks or Whoroscope to the novels (thick as an Irish wood)to finally Play, Eh, Joe, etc. Truly amazing.

It's only when Herbie strapped on that keyboard and did Rockit that he offended me and I turned off. That was some sell-out bullshit. That and hosting 'Rock School' on PBS. Ugh. But he's got a hell of a legacy still.

Are we talking more of a compositional/idiomatic simplification or an instrumental simplification?

All of the above. Pared down. Simplified. Like the word supposedly scrawled on Beethoven's scores that became a kind of joke: 'Simplify, simplify'. He dood it. Hard for a guy with so much to say. I think he really got down to brass tacks on Chameleon---for one of many possible examples. That melody still has some weirdness at the very end, but is palatable and understandable. That's willful discipline.

Well, Herbie has acknowledged the influence of Chris Anderson.

I'm glad that Herbie acknowledged Chris---who was my friend and whose playing I adore---and that Chris got some play behind Herbie saying he studied with Chris. But I never heard what Herbie got from Chris. Ever. They're both very discursive, rambling, and with great harmonic ears but so, so different. Chris leaves a lot of space, especially in his rubato playing, and to me is a more authentic bluesman, even if he dips in and out. Burt Eckoff, a fine pianist who knew Chris longer and better than me, swears that he has recordings of Herbie where you can hear Chris's influence. I'd like to hear that.

I think it's the Chris of the mid to late '50s that Herbie learned from. It's my impression, having heard CA some in-person back then and on the recordings he made around that time, especially the VeeJay album, that he was playing rather differently then than he was in his later "very discursive, rambling" years, fascinating as that later manner was.

He used the same voicings in the 40s, just opened the style up. The core was formed early, as with all great artists and most humans. I have to go back and listen to that live recording with Bird, if anything much can be told from that. Probably he was so excited to play with Bird he was nervous as hell. but it's still Chris.

[fasstrack]

These threads are such a crazy education. Interestingly (for me, at least), this was one of the first youtube hits for Barry Galbraith:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6I00wCRYTs

That hybridzed chord/bassline accompaniment was actually one of the first "jazz things" I learned, since my first teacher took some lessons from Joe Pass (who more or less mastered this sort of contrapuntal guitar playing). The words about accompaniment being a lost art are really pointed, because these skills are more important now than ever. I had a friend chide me for playing chord melody in a free jazz context (not changes--it was a strictly improvised harmony sort of thing), which I'll take in stride--it's not "in the idiom"--but I do wonder why that sort of skill set was never really applied to a lot of styles in the wake of Coltrane. Maybe it's something about the post-McLaughlin/post-Hendrix area and the elevation of "heroic" linear soloing, but it sometimes feels like jazz guitar after 1970 really makes a big deal of avoiding the possibilities of all six strings.

I worked through this with Barry himself. He and Milt sounded great on the companion recording. But we both agreed that the stuff was too fancy to be practical. The best and most useful thing Barry showed me was the 3-note bass string voicings for 4/4 comping. Amazing but I just didn't know to do that. I was comping on the high strings. He was a gentleman and said 'sounds good, but it's a little thin'. He had one study in that book on Rhythm changes that I was all over. It kind of changed my life.

It was worth going just for the stories. He knew about Jo Jones telling John Carisi (his best friend) to 'go to Florida and get a suntan' before you play with me, then kicking him off the stand. I told him that one. That was at the West End right before my eyes. Jo turned into a bitter dick at the end, sorry to say. He was trashing the band, which included one of the all-time champs, Percy France, that night, and coming in wrong but covering himself. He got on the bass player's case---a guy named Skinny Berger. Just mean and no class. I never spoke to him and I'm glad. But Barry just laughed and said Jo was out of his mind. Always. Then he told me about the Coleman Hawkins Bossa Nova date, where 'no one knew his ass from a hole in the ground. Of course Bean always sounded good and Willie Rodriguez was a good drummer. But you never saw a more more confused group of motherfuckers than us'.

Edited April 17, 2012 by fasstrack

[robertoart]

Pt. 2: To me he just repeated and never grew, never explored the instrument chordally, for one thing. He achieved some nice things and was talented, though. Who knows what he would've done had he straighted out? Sad. Maybe I'm picking on him b/c the romantic image of the junkie jazz musician is not only sickening horseshit drivel, it's downright destructive. People not only want to play like these guys, they want to BE them. Well, like I said, Grant was cool. Good player w/o even trying. If he tried maybe he'd of been a MF. We'll never know...

I do take what you say seriously, and I do respect your social history and achievements within the music. I am questioning what you said though. I don't believe the recorded work by Eddie Diehl justifies your position - that you have further elucidated. I find the idea that Eddie Diehl had a sound and musical opus big enough to co-exist with Tyner/Jones and Larry Young/Jones - in any way comparable to Grant Green, almost offensive to the principle of the musicians who chose to work with Grant. That you suggest Grant Green is held in over-regard because of the so-called romantic legacy of substance abuse, even more so. I am also suggesting that the decision by Grant Green to use electric instruments and play groove based music, was also an artistic decision that related to the changing music around him, as well as his ability to contribute to it. In regards to the narrative of this thread, there is nothing in these records he made (the funk ones), that suggest insincerity or unprincipled manoeuvres (made for popularities sake alone). As has also been pointed out in this thread, they probably weren't made for 'you' as an audience. It would have been retrogressive, conceptually, for him to have begun exploring 'chord-melody' at this point in time. With the reality of Black music the way it was. The direction he took with the funk albums was every bit as logical as the way Hancock ran with the more radical funk of the In A Silent Way/Bitches Brew sound towards the Headhunters. I am saying also that Grant Green 'was' a MF and he 'was' trying. He just wasn't trying to be Joe Pass. So yes, if you think not being concerned with extending the trio/standards format is lazy, well and good. I don't, compared to finding musicians who have a vision for 1969 instrumental music, working the guitar into the front line of that music without recourse to Hendrixisms - and organising the style and arrangements that will fill clubs and create the atmosphere you can hear on Alive and Live At The Lighthouse.

You just don't know Eddie's playing then. And I don't blame you. He doesn't record well and hates recording. There was a Hank Mobley record, Thinking of Home. He was OK, but sounded a million times better with just me and him jamming, which are hours and hours from the 80s, but never recorded, and live gigs I was at. The best stuff was a trio at Vassar with Jimmy Cobb and Bill Crow (but he hated it and wouldn't make me a copy) but more so a duo gig with Red Mitchell at Bradley's that Steve Berger recorded. I told him he should put that out. He actually agreed but thought Mitchell's widow would be hard to deal with or something. Bullshit. Eddie just doesn't like hearing himself on recording. I can relate. But that doesn't help my case here. Don't know what else to say. Ask other guitar players. You're not gonna sway me on Grant so let's agree to disagree. He sounds good and live and let live.

Ok. Well maybe he should have recorded more in the sixties. He might have had a better sound by the time he got to record with Hank Mobley and Reuben Wilson.

[fasstrack]

Pt. 2: To me he just repeated and never grew, never explored the instrument chordally, for one thing. He achieved some nice things and was talented, though. Who knows what he would've done had he straighted out? Sad. Maybe I'm picking on him b/c the romantic image of the junkie jazz musician is not only sickening horseshit drivel, it's downright destructive. People not only want to play like these guys, they want to BE them. Well, like I said, Grant was cool. Good player w/o even trying. If he tried maybe he'd of been a MF. We'll never know...

I do take what you say seriously, and I do respect your social history and achievements within the music. I am questioning what you said though. I don't believe the recorded work by Eddie Diehl justifies your position - that you have further elucidated. I find the idea that Eddie Diehl had a sound and musical opus big enough to co-exist with Tyner/Jones and Larry Young/Jones - in any way comparable to Grant Green, almost offensive to the principle of the musicians who chose to work with Grant. That you suggest Grant Green is held in over-regard because of the so-called romantic legacy of substance abuse, even more so. I am also suggesting that the decision by Grant Green to use electric instruments and play groove based music, was also an artistic decision that related to the changing music around him, as well as his ability to contribute to it. In regards to the narrative of this thread, there is nothing in these records he made (the funk ones), that suggest insincerity or unprincipled manoeuvres (made for popularities sake alone). As has also been pointed out in this thread, they probably weren't made for 'you' as an audience. It would have been retrogressive, conceptually, for him to have begun exploring 'chord-melody' at this point in time. With the reality of Black music the way it was. The direction he took with the funk albums was every bit as logical as the way Hancock ran with the more radical funk of the In A Silent Way/Bitches Brew sound towards the Headhunters. I am saying also that Grant Green 'was' a MF and he 'was' trying. He just wasn't trying to be Joe Pass. So yes, if you think not being concerned with extending the trio/standards format is lazy, well and good. I don't, compared to finding musicians who have a vision for 1969 instrumental music, working the guitar into the front line of that music without recourse to Hendrixisms - and organising the style and arrangements that will fill clubs and create the atmosphere you can hear on Alive and Live At The Lighthouse.

You just don't know Eddie's playing then. And I don't blame you. He doesn't record well and hates recording. There was a Hank Mobley record, Thinking of Home. He was OK, but sounded a million times better with just me and him jamming, which are hours and hours from the 80s, but never recorded, and live gigs I was at. The best stuff was a trio at Vassar with Jimmy Cobb and Bill Crow (but he hated it and wouldn't make me a copy) but more so a duo gig with Red Mitchell at Bradley's that Steve Berger recorded. I told him he should put that out. He actually agreed but thought Mitchell's widow would be hard to deal with or something. Bullshit. Eddie just doesn't like hearing himself on recording. I can relate. But that doesn't help my case here. Don't know what else to say. Ask other guitar players. You're not gonna sway me on Grant so let's agree to disagree. He sounds good and live and let live.

Ok. Well maybe he should have recorded more in the sixties. He might have had a better sound by the time he got to record with Hank Mobley and Reuben Wilson.

Ha ha. Maaaaaaa!!! He won't stooooooooppppp!!!!

[robertoart]

Pt. 2: To me he just repeated and never grew, never explored the instrument chordally, for one thing. He achieved some nice things and was talented, though. Who knows what he would've done had he straighted out? Sad. Maybe I'm picking on him b/c the romantic image of the junkie jazz musician is not only sickening horseshit drivel, it's downright destructive. People not only want to play like these guys, they want to BE them. Well, like I said, Grant was cool. Good player w/o even trying. If he tried maybe he'd of been a MF. We'll never know...

I do take what you say seriously, and I do respect your social history and achievements within the music. I am questioning what you said though. I don't believe the recorded work by Eddie Diehl justifies your position - that you have further elucidated. I find the idea that Eddie Diehl had a sound and musical opus big enough to co-exist with Tyner/Jones and Larry Young/Jones - in any way comparable to Grant Green, almost offensive to the principle of the musicians who chose to work with Grant. That you suggest Grant Green is held in over-regard because of the so-called romantic legacy of substance abuse, even more so. I am also suggesting that the decision by Grant Green to use electric instruments and play groove based music, was also an artistic decision that related to the changing music around him, as well as his ability to contribute to it. In regards to the narrative of this thread, there is nothing in these records he made (the funk ones), that suggest insincerity or unprincipled manoeuvres (made for popularities sake alone). As has also been pointed out in this thread, they probably weren't made for 'you' as an audience. It would have been retrogressive, conceptually, for him to have begun exploring 'chord-melody' at this point in time. With the reality of Black music the way it was. The direction he took with the funk albums was every bit as logical as the way Hancock ran with the more radical funk of the In A Silent Way/Bitches Brew sound towards the Headhunters. I am saying also that Grant Green 'was' a MF and he 'was' trying. He just wasn't trying to be Joe Pass. So yes, if you think not being concerned with extending the trio/standards format is lazy, well and good. I don't, compared to finding musicians who have a vision for 1969 instrumental music, working the guitar into the front line of that music without recourse to Hendrixisms - and organising the style and arrangements that will fill clubs and create the atmosphere you can hear on Alive and Live At The Lighthouse.

You just don't know Eddie's playing then. And I don't blame you. He doesn't record well and hates recording. There was a Hank Mobley record, Thinking of Home. He was OK, but sounded a million times better with just me and him jamming, which are hours and hours from the 80s, but never recorded, and live gigs I was at. The best stuff was a trio at Vassar with Jimmy Cobb and Bill Crow (but he hated it and wouldn't make me a copy) but more so a duo gig with Red Mitchell at Bradley's that Steve Berger recorded. I told him he should put that out. He actually agreed but thought Mitchell's widow would be hard to deal with or something. Bullshit. Eddie just doesn't like hearing himself on recording. I can relate. But that doesn't help my case here. Don't know what else to say. Ask other guitar players. You're not gonna sway me on Grant so let's agree to disagree. He sounds good and live and let live.

Ok. Well maybe he should have recorded more in the sixties. He might have had a better sound by the time he got to record with Hank Mobley and Reuben Wilson.

Ha ha. Maaaaaaa!!! He won't stooooooooppppp!!!!

It's a human cry from the wilderness.

Edited April 17, 2012 by freelancer

[ep1str0phy]

These threads are such a crazy education. Interestingly (for me, at least), this was one of the first youtube hits for Barry Galbraith:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6I00wCRYTs

That hybridzed chord/bassline accompaniment was actually one of the first "jazz things" I learned, since my first teacher took some lessons from Joe Pass (who more or less mastered this sort of contrapuntal guitar playing). The words about accompaniment being a lost art are really pointed, because these skills are more important now than ever. I had a friend chide me for playing chord melody in a free jazz context (not changes--it was a strictly improvised harmony sort of thing), which I'll take in stride--it's not "in the idiom"--but I do wonder why that sort of skill set was never really applied to a lot of styles in the wake of Coltrane. Maybe it's something about the post-McLaughlin/post-Hendrix area and the elevation of "heroic" linear soloing, but it sometimes feels like jazz guitar after 1970 really makes a big deal of avoiding the possibilities of all six strings.

I worked through this with Barry himself. He and Milt sounded great on the companion recording. But we both agreed that the stuff was too fancy to be practical. The best and most useful thing Barry showed me was the 3-note bass string voicings for 4/4 comping. Amazing but I just didn't know to do that. I was comping on the high strings. He was a gentleman and said 'sounds good, but it's a little thin'. He had one study in that book on Rhythm changes that I was all over. It kind of changed my life.

Totally tangential, but what exactly were the bass string voicings? Root-3rd-7th stuff? I'm really curious.

[fasstrack]

These threads are such a crazy education. Interestingly (for me, at least), this was one of the first youtube hits for Barry Galbraith:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6I00wCRYTs

That hybridzed chord/bassline accompaniment was actually one of the first "jazz things" I learned, since my first teacher took some lessons from Joe Pass (who more or less mastered this sort of contrapuntal guitar playing). The words about accompaniment being a lost art are really pointed, because these skills are more important now than ever. I had a friend chide me for playing chord melody in a free jazz context (not changes--it was a strictly improvised harmony sort of thing), which I'll take in stride--it's not "in the idiom"--but I do wonder why that sort of skill set was never really applied to a lot of styles in the wake of Coltrane. Maybe it's something about the post-McLaughlin/post-Hendrix area and the elevation of "heroic" linear soloing, but it sometimes feels like jazz guitar after 1970 really makes a big deal of avoiding the possibilities of all six strings.

I worked through this with Barry himself. He and Milt sounded great on the companion recording. But we both agreed that the stuff was too fancy to be practical. The best and most useful thing Barry showed me was the 3-note bass string voicings for 4/4 comping. Amazing but I just didn't know to do that. I was comping on the high strings. He was a gentleman and said 'sounds good, but it's a little thin'. He had one study in that book on Rhythm changes that I was all over. It kind of changed my life.

Totally tangential, but what exactly were the bass string voicings? Root-3rd-7th stuff? I'm really curious.

Exactement. But root, 7th, third in root position, then just going by voice-leading the way anyone would.

[ep1str0phy]

Cool--maybe overthinking this, but do you mean just a basic root position chord with the 5th omitted (e.g., C-E-Bb) or root/7th/3rd in that order (e.g., C-Bb-E)? I use the latter frequently, but I don't usually comp with 6th string/5th string/4th string combinations. It's not a preference thing so much as a habit--I guess I never really thought thought to do it the other way (for fear of invoking the wrath of bass players/keyboardists). I'll try that next time I'm in a small configuration.

[fasstrack]

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

[fasstrack]

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

[Noj]

Hahaha, Fassy's phone is fancy.

[fasstrack]

Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point...

Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point...

Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point...

Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point...

Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point...

Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point...