BFT 100 discussion thread

[DrJ]

I love #12, which is Communications #9 by the Jazz Composers Orchestra, the silver 2 LP set, with Larry Coryell on guitar. Am I right?

Eh..COULD be..!

I actually pulled this from a 1994 ECM CD release of this one though (cat no. 841 124-2), don't have the original vinyl.

Edited July 10, 2012 by DrJ

[DrJ]

Okay, okay, OKAY!!! I don’t know how I’m gonna contain my excitement now that I’m sitting here actually banging out guesses, commentary, and the usual shenanigans. For ONCE, I actually stand a chance of not being so clueless!!!

Oh, and did I mention that this is, by far, and with no disrespect to any previous BFT compilers (except for whoever compiled 21, 54, and 73; that guy needs serious help!), the BEST BFT EVER!!!

Well shucks I'm blushin'!

Seriously though, glad you enjoyed it so much - it was definitely long labored over - in terms of pacing, variety, and the (albeit sort of loose) theme (about which I note nobody has hazarded a guess yet).

A few specific comments in reply to yours Big Al:

RE: Track 1 - I have yet to have anyone not be moved by this track - you've kept the string going!

Track 2 - Finally someone liked it like I do. I won't reveal identity yet (you did eventually get the composition!). I don't think it's in print though I have seen it used for cheap (my copy was had that way). I'll make sure you get taken care of if necessary...

Track 3 - It's such a beauty - the composition and the rendition! This one isn't in print though can be found (again I can help if needed)

Track 4 - correct-a-mundo on the leader, and yes it's in print

Track 6 - finally someone gets the tune! You're half right about the nature of the musicians...

Track 7 - I THINK this is in print - if not again, I can help...not quite right on the tune, keep thinking!

Track 8 - may end up being one of the biggest revelations of this BFT - it isn't anyone remotely well known, so you gotta put on your "obscure artists" thinking cap...

Track 9 - Yep, you nailed the drummer...now who's on piano???

Track 11 - Again you nailed the tune - strong work! I also never cared for the original pop/dance rendition - but once I heard it done this way, it seemed so obvious this was a Herbie JAZZ composition of high caliber, just originally couched in radio-friendly guise - humbling (to me at least) to realize how much sometimes our impressions are influenced by the trappings (production etc) rather than the essence of a song.

BUT: it ain't Herbie or any of the guys you mentioned who are playing on this rendition! If it helps, think much more recent...and the good news is, IN PRINT!

Track 12 - No joke, this piece didn't fully "click" for me until the very end - something about the way it closes is almost magical, making everything that came before fall into place, at least for me, like the whole damn thing was setting up those last few seconds.

Track 13 - interesting comments - the Italian connection isn't as far off as you might think (and yes that's something of a hint!)

Edited July 10, 2012 by DrJ

[Hot Ptah]

I love #12, which is Communications #9 by the Jazz Composers Orchestra, the silver 2 LP set, with Larry Coryell on guitar. Am I right?

Eh..COULD be..!

I actually pulled this from a 1994 ECM CD release of this one though (cat no. 841 124-2), don't have the original vinyl.

This is the vinyl album I know it from:

[Hot Ptah]

I like #5. One of the things I enjoy about Blindfold Tests is the ability to learn about specific recordings in pre-bop jazz.

Through online research, I think #5 is Doggone I've Done It, by the Dorsey Brothers Orchestra, vocals by the Boswell Sisters, and violin solo by Joe Venuti, on the Brunswick label. My online source provides this instrumental personnel:

Bunny Berigan--trumpet, Tommy Dorsey--trombone, Jimmy Dorsey--clarinet, Joe Venuti-violin, Martha Boswell--piano, Dick McDonough--guitar, Artie Bernstein--bass, Stan King--drums

[tkeith]

10 - Huh! I was just listening to this in the car! The one and only Park Adams on baritone. It's LITTLE DREAMS from this. Love this record! Pepper was such a bad man! The unmistakeable doo-wop tinge of James Williams.

Aw, now I feel bad cuz I love me some Pepper!

Geez Al, I thought we were going to come to blows on this one!

Seriously, if you go back and give it another listen, you'll hear that this solo is littered with Pepper's trademark licks. I would say that's true of the whole album, in a good way. It's not a five star record, but it's a very solid 4+ (perhaps 4 on the outside?).

[Big Al]

10 - Huh! I was just listening to this in the car! The one and only Park Adams on baritone. It's LITTLE DREAMS from this. Love this record! Pepper was such a bad man! The unmistakeable doo-wop tinge of James Williams.

Aw, now I feel bad cuz I love me some Pepper!

Geez Al, I thought we were going to come to blows on this one!

Seriously, if you go back and give it another listen, you'll hear that this solo is littered with Pepper's trademark licks. I would say that's true of the whole album, in a good way. It's not a five star record, but it's a very solid 4+ (perhaps 4 on the outside?).

I shall! I'll likely hear something I missed the first couple go-rounds, especially now I know it's Pepper!

[DrJ]

I like #5. One of the things I enjoy about Blindfold Tests is the ability to learn about specific recordings in pre-bop jazz.

Through online research, I think #5 is Doggone I've Done It, by the Dorsey Brothers Orchestra, vocals by the Boswell Sisters, and violin solo by Joe Venuti, on the Brunswick label. My online source provides this instrumental personnel:

Bunny Berigan--trumpet, Tommy Dorsey--trombone, Jimmy Dorsey--clarinet, Joe Venuti-violin, Martha Boswell--piano, Dick McDonough--guitar, Artie Bernstein--bass, Stan King--drums

Bingo! Strong work.

Bunny also has a brief but sweet trumpet solo right after the violin (you probably noticed, but I mention it since you didn't mention it specifically).

I love the Boswells - they have quite a few tracks other than this one included in the Bunny Berigan Mosaic box (from which I took this track). Very creative, distinctive approach to the vocal sound of the day.

[Spontooneous]

Here goes with the first half. I haven't peeked.

1 "It Ain't Necessarily So," stretched out in a long, loping groove. The groove leaves big spaces in the melody, and the the pianist fills them so beautifully. At first I thought it might be Ahmad Jamal, but obviously it isn't. The sound quality makes me think of Chess-Argo, which leads me to think this might be John Young. I just love this track.

2 "E.S.P." is the tune. The guitar solo could use some rests. I'm thinking Larry Coryell. The bass-drums dialogue is not bad, though. But overall leaves me cold. Sorry. These days I hear too many academic-sounding exercises by people who spent too much time listening to E.S.P. and Miles Smiles and Nefertiti.

3 Nice composition. The alto goes first, but that might be a curveball. I'm thinking the flugel player is the leader. I'm thinking Tom Harrell. And that's a nice thing to think. Lovely track, good solos all around.

4 Well, OK. I've never liked "The More I See You" much. The groove seems a little stereotypical. The vibes player isn't doing it for me. I'll shut up now.

5 Ohh, the Boswells! I love it. Connee is still one of the hippest singers ever. The backing band is really fine.

6 The composition is "Double Talk" from that Howard McGhee-Fats Navarro Blue Note session. Obviously a different performance. And a really nice arrangement – four or five horns? Trumpet is OK, but the tenor is superb. That first bridge of the tenor solo is the best moment of my day. Bill Perkins? After the solos, the arrangement is even better – the arranger didn't miss a trick. Sounds like a flat soundboard recording -- maybe not a commercial release? (I'm a Grateful Dead collector – we live among flat unreleased soundboard recordings.)

7 The guitar is interesting. But the drummer's part wears me out real fast. There's just too much of it, and it's played with such rigidity.

8 A very nice pianoless quartet blues. No guess, but I like.

[Spontooneous]

OK, last installment.

9. I really like that busy groove at the beginning. The composition sounds Corea-influenced., but it isn't him. Fun.

10. I feel like I should recognize the song. Maybe it's from Broadway, maybe it's from Sesame Street, I don't remember. Then comes the pleasant sensation of realizing I'm probably hearing the real Pepper Adams. Nice trombone, too – maybe Carl Fontana? Makes me think of that Don Friedman album with Pepper and Knepper, but this isn't there. A beautiful cut.

11. At first I really like this. Then that banal drum break screws it up. It gets going pretty well again, and then the damn drum break screws it up all over again. And so on. The moral of our story is, never write out the drum break! Without it, I'd really like this. I was thinking Joe Farrell on CTI, but CTI wouldn't let that drum break get released, would they?

12. For a half-minute or so I thought it was Skies of America. Then when the trumpet came in, I thought it was the Olivier Messiaen composition that Jack Walrath used on his Gut Feelings album. (There's an eerie similarity.) The guitar freakout isn't for everybody, but I enjoyed it. I wish the string parts spent more time moving and less time droning. But this one still gets a "yes" vote from me.

13. Intriguing. Maybe I like the tune more than I like the performance. For a few bars starting at 45 seconds there's a teasing similarity to "If I Should Lose You," but that isn't the tune. The pianist is good, but could stand to arpeggiate less often.

14. Nice "Giant Steps," even if the organist gets stuck on beginning phrases with the same three-note figure again and again for a while. The tune does that to people.

Thanks, DrJ, for a proper centennial celebration!

[mikeweil]

I had hope I would have more time for this, but ... nevertheless, here are my comments on first listen.

# 1 - It ain't necessesarily so, the style sounds familiar, I have LPs by Marty Paich and Don Randi playing like this, but I can't identify this particular player. Nice 'n' easy.

# 2 - I've heard this tune before - but not this version. Not my taste, but competent players.

# 3 - This is Rodger's Grant's tune, Morning Star, IIRC. He passed away just recently - very underrated pianist, and the tunes I have heard are all very nice and well conceived. No idea who plays here. Trumpet player shows influences of Art Farmer. I find the pianist a bit too busy and the horns could play more on the melody than the changes. But this isn't easy to do on a tune with chord changes like this.

# 4 - The More I See You - this should be Johnny Lytle on the vibes. The most entertaining vibes player I have ever heard, and very, very precise in his phrasing. I have this somewhere.

# 5 - Oh .... no idea who this is, but I like it. That's very jazzy compared to most vocal groups of that period. I'm very curious about this. Violin, of all things!

# 6 - That's some 1940's beboppers' tune, I can hear the original in my head. Played very well indeed - I would have enjoyed it and applauded, had I been there.

# 7 - Another tune I know but cannot pin down - but I liked the original better, the guitarists's playing is too abstract, for my taste. That tune is nicely built.

# 8 - I have heard these guys before ... I like the slightly fragile tone of the trumpeter better than the alto's sour sound.

# 9 - The piano player likes the way Chick Corea built his tunes. This style of playing doesn't inspire me very much. And I don't like the way it is recorded, everything miked very closely, sounds too much like studio.

# 10 - Hearing trombone and bari is very nice. Is this Pepper Adams in a relaxed mood? I never heard that Pepper 'n' Knepper album ...

# 11 - Again I think this is a cover version - nice, but I kind of grew tired og this busy style of playing - I grew up with this and heard so much of it ...

# 12 - This could be one of the more "out" recordings of the Gil Evans Orchestra, or rather inspired by it. Electric guitar in aband like this is a nice touch. I like the way they build the chords during the last one and a half minutes, using them as a pile of sound.

# 13 - This is the most interesting pianist I have heard so far on this compilation. Going beyond familiar jazz chord changes and all - who is this?

# 14 - Giant Steps on organ - I have this somewhere ...

Although there's not much I would buy this was a very enjoyable listen - thanks a lot!

[jeffcrom]

Well, I missed BFT 99 completely, and have waited until the last minute to chime in on #100. But I'm glad I found the time - some great music here. As usual, I haven't looked at this thread yet.

1. “It Ain’t Necessarily So,” of course – a really nice, unusual rendition. I like the understated approach and the way the pianist plays with the melody. Not earth-shattering, but really nice.

2. Wayne Shorter’s “E.S.P.” played by a two-guitar quartet – I really like the idea. In practice, it doesn’t send me. The guitar soloist has kind of a thin sound, and plays way too many guitaristic licks for my taste. I would have preferred an attempt to play a more melodic solo.

3. Speaking of melody, that’s what this five-and-a-half minutes of loveliness is all about. The composition sounds very familiar to me, but I can’t place it. Wonderful music, in any case.

4. “The More I See You." Not sure about the vibist – might by Johnny Lytle or somebody like that. Nothing profound here, just good, fun, swinging.

5. The Bozzies! I remember the first time I “got” the Boswell Sisters – it was their recording of “It’s the Girl” with Jack Purvis on trumpet. After years of indifference, I realized how creative and talented they were, and became an instant convert. This is from 1932, with the Dorsey Brothers; nice violin by Joe Venuti and absolutely brilliant trumpet by Bunny Berigan. Thanks for including this one.

6. This has a slightly uncomfortable feel to me, like it never quite gets going. The theme sounds like a series of introductions (one stolen from Bird), rather than a statement. And the solos are, well, almost good.

7. I think I know who this is, but only because I cheated – I was just fascinated that a guitarist would tackle Neil Hefti’s “Repetition.” How cool is that? Anyone who chooses such an interesting piece of material has already won my goodwill, and the playing is excellent.

8. Wow – what is this? This is really intriguing – sounds like early 1960s. The trumpet player reminds a little bit of Bobby Bradford, but the alto player doesn’t sound like his usual partner, John Carter. In any case, I like this – sounds like some younger guys finding their place on the line between tradition and innovation.

9. Well, it’s Tony Williams on drums. Don’t know who the rest of the trio is, but they’re good. Williams plays an interesting solo over the vamp, but nobody can touch Max Roach when it comes to making a drum solo interesting.

10. The bari player sounds like Pepper Adams. Great playing all around on this one. It’s one of those cuts that make you say, “That’s jazz, baby!” Everybody is assured, creative, and individual.

11. When “Rockit” came out, I was teaching at a little high school on the south side of Atlanta. I immediately wrote it out for my pep band, and we were the hippest thing at the basketball games. This is fun – covering this tune in this style is a great idea. I would probably enjoy it less after a few listens, because it’s kind of derivative of hip jazz, a la 1969.

12. This is “Communications #9” by the Jazz Composer’s Orchestra featuring Larry Coryell. I’m pleased that I recognized Michael Mantler’s late-60s writing style right away. The writing is more interesting than Coryell’s soloing, in my opinion. I love the astringent bass clusters at the beginning. Maybe I’ll listen to #11, featuring Cecil Taylor, tonight.

13. Another composition that’s on the tip of my tongue. Mingus? (The composition, I mean, not the players.) It’s good, but I would have liked to hear it roam further afield; it stayed close to the composition all the way. That’s obviously what they intended, but I would have liked to hear more.

14. Not sure I’ve ever heard “Giant Steps” played on organ before. I’ve always thought that this is a very hard tune to make music out of, as opposed to just sounding impressive. These guys certainly sound impressive. I guess I’m saying that I’m kind of ambivalent about this.

Thanks for an excellent BFT #100!

[mikeweil]

Been listening to # 9 once more - I don't think it's Tony. Some of his stock patterns, for sure, but others that are not quite his style - and I would be surprised if he used a woodblock.

[jeffcrom]

Been listening to # 9 once more - I don't think it's Tony. Some of his stock patterns, for sure, but others that are not quite his style - and I would be surprised if he used a woodblock.

I'm shocked that you would question my judgement!

I'm not as sure as I was yesterday, but I'll still bet you a beer next time I'm in Germany (Einbecker Schwartzbier, please) or you're in the southern U.S. (Sweetwater 420, a nice Atlanta microbrew).

[mikeweil]

[tkeith]

10. The bari player sounds like Pepper Adams. Great playing all around on this one. It’s one of those cuts that make you say, “That’s jazz, baby!” Everybody is assured, creative, and individual.

Perfectly stated.

[DrJ]

Interesting comments all - and interesting that for a lot of the tracks nobody has guessed the musicians' identities yet - that was one of my goals (to stump you on at least a few).

Also nobody has hazarded a guess to the (admittedly very) loose theme.

Are we ready for a reveal thread?

[Jim R]

# 3 - This is Rodger's Grant's tune, Morning Star, IIRC. He passed away just recently - very underrated pianist, and the tunes I have heard are all very nice and well conceived. No idea who plays here. Trumpet player shows influences of Art Farmer. I find the pianist a bit too busy and the horns could play more on the melody than the changes. But this isn't easy to do on a tune with chord changes like this.

Good ear, Mike- you are correct on the song title. I'm sure I've heard this tune before, but it isn't all that familiar to me, despite the fact that I find it very appealing. I've got over 300 GB of music in my iTunes files, and this gem of a tune is not in there.

I just searched like crazy for possibilities as to who recorded this version, and I've come up empty. Thought maybe it was indeed Tom Harrell, but I can't find a recording to match this one, with its lovely arrangement (which reminds me of the style of Benny Golson, btw). Looking forward to finding out who this is.

Hopefully a few more people will post here before Tony reveals (seems like a short discussion thus far).

[Dan Gould]

# 3 - This is Rodger's Grant's tune, Morning Star, IIRC.

Good ear, Mike- you are correct on the song title. I'm sure I've heard this tune before, but it isn't all that familiar to me, despite the fact that I find it very appealing. I've got over 300 GB of music in my iTunes files, and this gem of a tune is not in there.

I just searched like crazy for possibilities as to who recorded this version, and I've come up empty. Thought maybe it was indeed Tom Harrell, but I can't find a recording to match this one, with its lovely arrangement (which reminds me of the style of Benny Golson, btw). Looking forward to finding out who this is.

3. I am nearly 100% certain I own this, but I'm not about to try to figure it out. Wait, could this be Cedar Walton on one of the Astor Place recordings, where he was teamed up with some younger guys?

I am taking 50% credit on this one. You see, I do know the song, and my reference to "younger guys" clearly encompasses

which in addition to the leader, features Terrence Blanchard and Benny Green. I did make clear references to the tune as I know it, I just didn't get the name of the tune or the specific players on this recording, so I will take away 50% of the credit.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Dan Gould

[mikeweil]

Now I know why it sounded so familiar - I once had this Ralph Moore album but sold it. It simply didn't jell as much as I would have expected. I love Moore's playing, and have seen him in performance with Cedar Walton, he's great. But this album sounded too tentative to me.

Hubert Laws made a nice recording of Morning Star:

Are we ready for a reveal thread?

Hell yeah!

[Jim R]

Okay, now I'm even more confused. I thought we were agreeing that it's an alto on "Morning Star". I know Moore as a tenor player only. Not only that, but I already listened to the Moore recording yesterday, during the searches I mentioned in my previous post. The sample at CD universe (not the recording Tony chose, unless my ears are failing me) can be played here: http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/4766718/a/Images.htm

So...

Edited July 29, 2012 by Jim R

[Jim R]

Track 3: You know that feeling you get when a song starts and it just instantly grabs you, calms you, soothes you, and makes you feel like all is well with the world? Well, that happened on BFT 12, on which Hubert Laws’ original version of this lovely tune appears.

Well duh, now that I've reviewed the thread again, I see that this tune had ALready been ID'd. NICE get, Al! I'll learn to read (and listen) one of these daze.

Don't think it's Clifford Jordan, though.

[Jim R]

Track 13 - ...And still nobody has picked up the composition...it's on a mega-famous recording made in the 1950s made by a mega-famous pair of musicians, but done in a very different arrangement, if that helps.

Still not enough of a clue for me, but I still love this piece. At first I was getting an Ellington/Strayhorn kind of vibe (from the composition), but at any rate, I can't seem to imagine this melody in a different arrangement (if that makes any sense). I just don't recognize it... but there probably still could be a few mega-famous recordings from the 50's that I haven't yet gotten hip to. Anyway, I'm going to keep trying (not anxious for a reveal yet, personally).

Edited July 29, 2012 by Jim R

[Dan Gould]

Okay, now I'm even more confused. I thought we were agreeing that it's an alto on "Morning Star". I know Moore as a tenor player only. Not only that, but I already listened to the Moore recording yesterday, during the searches I mentioned in my previous post. The sample at CD universe (not the recording Tony chose, unless my ears are failing me) can be played here: http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/4766718/a/Images.htm

So...

If I were actually saying the Moore recording is the one Tony used, I'd have taken 100% credit.

[Jim R]

Okay, but one thing will never change... me being confused.

[mikeweil]

I've listened to the Ralph Moore sample JimR linked, and definitely remember that CD - the version Dr.J used in his BFT indeed has alto, and is a different recording - no reason to be confused, Jim.