Louis Armstrong: Complete Okeh, Columbia, and Victor 1925-1933

[king ubu]

I guess it is... so I won't tell the world this time how many times I've bought the Hot Fives so far. But I've little intention to buy them again.

[J.A.W.]

It's *all* on Spotify!

Sorry, what did you say?

[David Ayers]

All. ALL.ALLL. -ish.

[medjuck]

So if I already have both the Sony and the JSP Hot Five & Seven collections, the "Complete RCA Victor" box and the Sony "Portrait of the Artist as A Young Man 1923-1934" is there going to be much on this I don't already have? (This is a serious question: Maybe there's a lot owned by Sony not in their box.)

[miles65]

louis Armstrong 1925-1933 on CD part 2.

JSP

The Hot Five and Hot Seven Box misses the 6 later discovered instrumentals

The Big Band 2 CD set miss 4 alternate takes.

They are all on Neatwork RP2020 Louis Armstrong vol. 1 1926-1935 (wich misses 6 Victor alternates)

Brunswick

Louis recorded four sessions for Brunswick as sideman:

May 26, 1926 Erskine Tate's Vendome Orchestra

Static Strut

Stomp Off Let's go (2 takes)

May 26, 1926 Lil's Hot Shots

Georgia Bo Bo

Drop That Sack (2 takes)

April 21, 1927 Jimmy Bertrand's Washboard Wizards

Easy Come Easy Go Blues

Blues Stampede

I'm Goin' Huntin'

If You Wanna Be My Sugar Papa (You Gotta Be Sweet To Me)

April 22, 1927 Johnny Dodd's Black Bottom Stompers

Weary Blues

New Orleans Stomp

Wild Man Blues (2 takes)

Melancholy (2 takes)

Frog DGF39 New Orleans Stomp misses the Jimmy Bertrand session

[brownie]

The Armstrong sets I am waiting for are the next volumes (12, 13, 14 and so on...) of the Intégrale Louis Armstrong from Frémeaux.

I have bought plenty of those Okeh/Columbia/Victor releases (from the Jolly Roger 10inchers days up to the Masters of Jazz and Classics CDs) and am not ready to spend more money on other reissues!

[J.A.W.]

Remco,

The JSP set is missing these tracks that are on the Sony The Complete Hot Fives and Hot Sevens Recordings set:

- the 6 Hociel Thomas tracks recorded on November 11, 1925 (Nos.11-16 on disc 2 of the Sony set)

- the 3 Johnny Dodds tracks recorded on May 28, 1926 (Nos.17-19 on disc 2 of the Sony set)

- the 6 Johnny Dodds tracks recorded on April 22, 1927 (Nos.13-18 on disc 3 of the Sony set)

- the 4 Lillie Delk Christian tracks recorded on June 26, 1928 (Nos.19-22 on disc 3 of the Sony set)

The last sessions on the Sony set are the ones recorded in March, 1929.

I don't see any other tracks on the Sony set that the JSP set doesn't have. Apparently the Sony set is also missing the 6 later discovered instrumentals you mentioned. Unless something's wrong with my eyes the Sony set doesn't have the May 26, 1926 Erskine Tate and April 21, 1927 Jimmy Bertrand Brunswick sessions either.

The JSP set has these additional tracks that are not on the Sony set:

- 6 tracks with Carroll Dickerson recorded on July 19, 1929

- 2 tracks with Carroll Dickerson recorded on September 11, 1929

- 1 track with Carroll Dickerson recorded on November 26, 1929

- 2 tracks recorded on December 10, 1929

- 3 tracks recorded on December 13, 1929

- 1 track recorded on January 24, 1930

- 2 tracks recorded on February 1, 1930

- 1 track recorded on April 5, 1930

Edited July 14, 2012 by J.A.W.

[AllenLowe]

I was informed that this new thing will have no new mastering - that they are taking the cuts from prior reissues - now, the last RCA of Armstrong that came out had some weird digital noise-reduction breathing (because it was old technology; one program that was used at the time had this tendency; you can hear the same thing on the Sony Emmett Miller) -

Edited July 14, 2012 by AllenLowe

[miles65]

Remco,

The JSP set is missing these tracks that are on the Sony The Complete Hot Fives and Hot Sevens Recordings set:

- the 6 Hociel Thomas tracks recorded on November 11, 1925 (Nos.11-16 on disc 2 of the Sony set)

- the 3 Johnny Dodds tracks recorded on May 28, 1926 (Nos.17-19 on disc 2 of the Sony set)

- the 6 Johnny Dodds tracks recorded on April 22, 1927 (Nos.13-18 on disc 3 of the Sony set)

- the 4 Lillie Delk Christian tracks recorded on June 26, 1928 (Nos.19-22 on disc 3 of the Sony set)

The last sessions on the Sony set are the ones recorded in March, 1929.

I don't see any other tracks on the Sony set that the JSP set doesn't have. Apparently the Sony set is also missing the 6 later discovered instrumentals you mentioned. Unless something's wrong with my eyes the Sony set doesn't have the May 26, 1926 Erskine Tate and April 21, 1927 Jimmy Bertrand Brunswick sessions either.

The JSP set has these additional tracks that are not on the Sony set:

- 6 tracks with Carroll Dickerson recorded on July 19, 1929

- 2 tracks with Carroll Dickerson recorded on September 11, 1929

- 1 track with Carroll Dickerson recorded on November 26, 1929

- 2 tracks recorded on December 10, 1929

- 3 tracks recorded on December 13, 1929

- 1 track recorded on January 24, 1930

- 2 tracks recorded on February 1, 1930

- 1 track recorded on April 5, 1930

You are right Hans. I should have made clear that was not comparing box sets/series with each other but with Rust and Lord's discographies.

The missing 6 instrumental takes were made after March 1929 the cut off date of the Sony set and there fore not missing. The JSP set ends April 5, 1930. To me that means they are missing from this set. JSP is not to blame since those takes were first issued in 1990/1991. I believe the 50 year copyright rule starts when works are published not when recored. If so and if John R.T. Davies had acces to these takes he couldn't have used them.

The Brunswick sessions. There is nothing wrong with you eyes. What I wanted to make clear is that if Sony leased two Brunswick sessions for their Hot Five/Hot Seven set they might lease all four sessions for their new set. This something I hope for but is not very likely to happen.

[jazzbo]

I was informed that this new thing will have no new mastering - that they are taking the cuts from prior reissues - now, the last RCA of Armstrong that came out had some weird digital noise-reduction breathing (because it was old technology; one program that was used at the time had this tendency; you can hear the same thing on the Sony Emmett Miller) -

If there's no new mastering. . . no sense buying this one. But. . .seems unlikely.

[JETman]

I was informed that this new thing will have no new mastering - that they are taking the cuts from prior reissues - now, the last RCA of Armstrong that came out had some weird digital noise-reduction breathing (because it was old technology; one program that was used at the time had this tendency; you can hear the same thing on the Sony Emmett Miller) -

If there's no new mastering. . . no sense buying this one. But. . .seems unlikely.

I'm guessing that Sony's Pop Market arm will be releasing this.

Does anyone know if the scaled back version of the Billie set they put out last year has new mastering when compared to the deluxe version that came out in 2001?

[J.A.W.]

I was informed that this new thing will have no new mastering - that they are taking the cuts from prior reissues - now, the last RCA of Armstrong that came out had some weird digital noise-reduction breathing (because it was old technology; one program that was used at the time had this tendency; you can hear the same thing on the Sony Emmett Miller) -

If there's no new mastering. . . no sense buying this one. But. . .seems unlikely.

I'm guessing that Sony's Pop Market arm will be releasing this.

Does anyone know if the scaled back version of the Billie set they put out last year has new mastering when compared to the deluxe version that came out in 2001?

I asked a few people who have access to the latest, scaled-back version of the Billie Holiday set and they told me it does not have new mastering, it has the same mastering as the older big box.

I think it's very unlikely the upcoming Armstrong box will be newly remastered.

Edited July 14, 2012 by J.A.W.

[JETman]

I was informed that this new thing will have no new mastering - that they are taking the cuts from prior reissues - now, the last RCA of Armstrong that came out had some weird digital noise-reduction breathing (because it was old technology; one program that was used at the time had this tendency; you can hear the same thing on the Sony Emmett Miller) -

If there's no new mastering. . . no sense buying this one. But. . .seems unlikely.

I'm guessing that Sony's Pop Market arm will be releasing this.

Does anyone know if the scaled back version of the Billie set they put out last year has new mastering when compared to the deluxe version that came out in 2001?

I asked a few people who have access to the latest, scaled-back version of the Billie Holiday set and they told me it does not have new mastering, it has the same mastering as the older big box.

I think it's very unlikely the upcoming Armstrong box will be newly remastered.

We can only hope

[J.A.W.]

The missing 6 instrumental takes were made after March 1929 the cut off date of the Sony set and there fore not missing. The JSP set ends April 5, 1930. To me that means they are missing from this set. JSP is not to blame since those takes were first issued in 1990/1991. I believe the 50 year copyright rule starts when works are published not when recored. If so and if John R.T. Davies had acces to these takes he couldn't have used them.

Thanks Remco. You are right about the EU copyright rule (now 70 years, by the way, for recordings that weren't yet in the public domain when the rule was changed in the EU).

Which CDs have those 6 instrumental tracks?

Edited July 14, 2012 by J.A.W.

[AllenLowe]

I was told they were using the previous mastering - who knows? Though I could tell by listening to the RCA cuts -

[JETman]

So if you've got the Sony 4 cd Hot Fives/Sevens box AND the RCA 4 cd box, you've got at least 8 of these 10 cd's?

[miles65]

The missing 6 instrumental takes were made after March 1929 the cut off date of the Sony set and there fore not missing. The JSP set ends April 5, 1930. To me that means they are missing from this set. JSP is not to blame since those takes were first issued in 1990/1991. I believe the 50 year copyright rule starts when works are published not when recored. If so and if John R.T. Davies had acces to these takes he couldn't have used them.

Thanks Remco. You are right about the EU copyright rule (now 70 years, by the way, for recordings that weren't yet in the public domain when the rule was changed in the EU).

Which CDs have those 6 instrumental tracks?

Either

Louis Armstrong Volume V Louis In New York (2 takes of After You've Gone) and

Louis Armstrong Volume 6 St.Louis Blues (1 take of I Ain't Got Nobody, 1 of Dallas Blues and 2 of St. Louis Blues) both on Columbia Jazz Masterpieces

Or

Louis Armstrong Volume 1 1926-1935 the alternative takes in chronological oreder.Neatwork RP 2020 wich has all 6.

[J.A.W.]

The missing 6 instrumental takes were made after March 1929 the cut off date of the Sony set and there fore not missing. The JSP set ends April 5, 1930. To me that means they are missing from this set. JSP is not to blame since those takes were first issued in 1990/1991. I believe the 50 year copyright rule starts when works are published not when recored. If so and if John R.T. Davies had acces to these takes he couldn't have used them.

Thanks Remco. You are right about the EU copyright rule (now 70 years, by the way, for recordings that weren't yet in the public domain when the rule was changed in the EU).

Which CDs have those 6 instrumental tracks?

Either

Louis Armstrong Volume V Louis In New York (2 takes of After You've Gone) and

Louis Armstrong Volume 6 St.Louis Blues (1 take of I Ain't Got Nobody, 1 of Dallas Blues and 2 of St. Louis Blues) both on Columbia Jazz Masterpieces

Or

Louis Armstrong Volume 1 1926-1935 the alternative takes in chronological oreder.Neatwork RP 2020 wich has all 6.

The Columbia Jazz Masterpieces CDs from the early 1990s that I've heard sounded pretty bad to my ears, with lots of noise reduction. I guess the Neatwork is an unauthorized release - if taken from those Columbias it probably also has bad sound.

[miles65]

So if you've got the Sony 4 cd Hot Fives/Sevens box AND the RCA 4 cd box, you've got at least 8 of these 10 cd's?

No I don't think so. The RCA box has two discs of 1930's recordings the other two cover the 40's and 50's.

[miles65]

Edited July 14, 2012 by Stompy Jones

[AllenLowe]

actually, the old Columbia Jazz Masterpieces are fixable, because the mastering engineer screwed them up in an analog way, fortunately - but it takes a LOT of EQ to bring them back to life.

'

[John L]

If there's no new mastering. . . no sense buying this one. But. . .seems unlikely.

Do you think so? I would think that it is likely. The current trend in commercial CD box sets seems to be reissuing the same remasters at a cheaper price in a cheaper box. That is what I would expect in this case. If not, then it may be a pleasant surprise.

[jazzbo]

Well, there's inconsistent mastering of the Columbia material on their cds and I expect that they'll remaster a lot of it to match the Hot Five and Seven mastering. . . . Maybe I'm wrong, but makes sense to me that portions of this will feature new masterings. We'll see I guess.

[gmonahan]

I'm with those who probably won't invest in this one. I not only have all the cd sets, but I kept hold of the old European VSOP LPs as well. (Yeah, I know--hopeless packrat!) That said, for those (are there any?) who do not have them, this might be a very nice set.

gregmo

[mikeweil]

Since I always put these Satchmo sides down on the list for various reasons, I may go for it this time ....