Fred Hersch Interview

[fasstrack]

I'll try one last time and that's it. There was a recent blindfold test where he trashed a Horace Silver recording, saying how he 'wished Horace sat on his left hand or something'. About the solos (one played by Woody Shaw) he opined 'nothing special, just jazzy jazz'. He concluded with 'I'm sorry to diss Horace, but it just wasn't that good'. That actually cracked me up. Then he parsed Bill Evans, saying he was a good, not great, solo player and that he was kind of worked out. Fair enough, though Evans at the end really let it rip on Nardis, and the live versions were very different from each other. And all the pianists he reveres-Monk, Erroll Garner, Earl Hines-had worked out arrangements. It's hard not to go through a solo gig and not have at least some. Even Cecil Taylor had little motifs he returned to. I heard Hersch even light into Tatum on a WKCR interview, saying he'd rather hear Earl Hines. You could say OK, the guy's opinionated and a thinker. Maybe that's somewhat true but I always got a loftines

[fasstrack]

Pt. 2:...a loftiness and a lot of ego. A profile in the NYT even had associates commenting on his huge ego. He does a lot of teaching. Maybe he views himself as a guru. Having said this, it doesn't matter that much. I never met the man and have nada against him. His triumph over health battles is heroic. It's just that ease in going for the jugular is a bit of a turn-off. Bob Brookmeyer-a big hero I had some minor interaction with-was just as bad, way worse really, on his infamous blog. He had major bugs up his ass and his inveighing made a monumental talent look bitter, maladjusted (well, OK, artists are), and petty-a jazz Pat Cooper. That's it, done and out of breath.

[Mark Stryker]

http://fredhersch.com/press/articles/HerschBlindfoldTest.pdf

The Blindfold Test ...

[robertoart]

http://fredhersch.com/press/articles/HerschBlindfoldTest.pdf

The Blindfold Test ...

He's a bit of a formalist.

[Dan Gould]

Regarding Horace, isn't this a howler?

It certainly wasn’t like when he played with his A-band

that had Joe Henderson or Freddie Hubbard.

I don't know if he gigged with him but I'm pretty sure Horace never recorded with Hubbard.

[WD45]

I can't believe that he'd never heard Art Tatum playing in a trio.

[fasstrack]

Looks like a few voices of dissent have been aroused. 'I die happy' (;

[paul secor]

I'm not much a a Fred Hersch fan, though I haven't heard a lot of his playing. What I have heard hasn't led me to seek out more. Always sounded to me as if he played like a banker.

I have no problem with his opinions and probably agree with more than I don't.

[Larry Kart]

Reading the Blindfold Test alongside the interview helps to bring things into focus for me. Ego? I'd say, perhaps instead, defensive certainty. OTOH, his opinions are at least based in genuine musical issues, and this gives one something to respond to/think about at the least. It's not like you have to agree with him in any or every case. Besides, these are more or less "what's your opinion?" situations. It's not like he's walking down the street carrying a dis Horace Silver sign or calling up people at random to raise doubts about Bill Evans.

BTW, a slightly Hersch-like dig at the man himself. A veteran NY-based jazz musician I know, referring to the care that Hersch takes in the studio on his own dates in particular, once told me that "Fred isn't the best pianist in town, but he does make some of the best records."

Also BTW, I wonder what Hersch's take would be on Marc Copland. Not a pianist that all here would like, and at times I myself find him a tad too romantic (for want of a better term), but it seems to me that he and Hersch are quite comparable figures and that Copland at best has a real "schwung" to his playing that the arguably too-careful Hersch typically lacks. Finally, FWIW, my favorite Hersch recording is his solo Rodgers and Hammerstein album -- a real melding of minds. His Monk, not so much.

[Tom Storer]

I like Hersch quite a bit, and I think he's getting even better as the years go by. As for his comments on this and that, I think he is no doubt a perfectionist regarding his own work and carries that mindset over to anything he's asked to judge--as a result he can end up sounding schoolteacher-y, nitpicking, or ungenerous when in fact he's just being honest--if undiplomatic. Most people are more diplomatic--they are just as critical but keep it to themselves. Hersch's openness about what he doesn't like and why is no doubt vexing to the people he's talking about, but fascinating and informative for us lay readers.

[fasstrack]

It's true, Larry. They DID ask him. The ego surfaces IMO when he talks about himself and how no one's making recordings or doing projects like him-also the tone he takes talking about others. I like his anbition and follow-through. He has a lot of product out there. And it's all interesting, stimulting stuff. Maybe a little pride IS in order. I'd like to hear the Rodgers and Hammerstein stuff, esp. after just finishing Rodgers' (disappointing, sorry to say) memoir. I heard his Mandel project, it was pretty nice. I just don't remember it. Marc Copland I like. Originally a sax player, I heard. Sean Smith was high on him when we played a lot in the 90s. I went to see them at Cleopatra's Needle then. I remember they played I See Your Face Before Me, which hit the spot b/c I was really into Sinatatra's In the Wee Small Hours recording then. Hey, I'm a Romantic too.

[Larry Kart]

BTW, I vaguely recall an ancient Village Voice piece by Stanley Crouch at his most obnoxious in which he wondered why Art Farmer was using this unswinging, un-balls-y pianist (IIRC, Crouch came close to saying limp-wristed, but I didn't pick up on the allusion at the time because I didn't then know that Hersch was gay) when there were so many deserving African-American pianists around. Crouch may even have cast aspersions on Farmer himself for his choice of Hersch, implying that that Art was trying to cover his "white" flank, a la his previous use of Jim Hall.

Can anyone link to this piece, if indeed I'm not imagining it?

[fasstrack]

Uh oh! Stan-uh-ley! This is gonna get good NOW!!

[Larry Kart]

Yes, Marc Copland played alto and tenor in the D.C. area in the '70s, under the name Marc Cohen. Don't know about the reasons for the name change (perhaps there was another player around of the same name?), but the switch to piano was pretty remarkable, because Copland has become a pretty amazing keyboard executant.

Copland interview, where he talks about the switch to piano:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=17196

[Justin V]

I found it to be a very interesting interview. Did anyone else catch this bit where Hersch talks about recording with Sam Jones: "But the only record of me with Sam is this 12-piece big band. And Keith couldn’t make it for some reason, so Mickey Roker stepped in, and he wasn’t a very good choice, because his reading wasn’t so good." The Sam Jones session was in 1979.

Judging from Mickey Roker's DTM interview, he had already gotten his reading together by that time:

"MR: [...] When I first went to New York I couldn’t read music.

EI: I am surprised, because you are on so many studio dates where you are playing the charts perfectly.

MR: Well, I would tell them in the beginning that I did not know how to read. Usually by the time the horns players got it, I had been listening and I got it. After I had been in New York for a while I got a teacher called Charlie Perry. Charlie Perry gave me the basics in reading and I studied with him for about six months. Then I started getting so many gigs cause I could spell pretty good, you know. That enabled me to play with Duke Pearson’s big band. From there I went on to Nancy Wilson, Ella Fitzgerald, and The Modern Jazz Quartet. They all had written music."

There's also this quote from an early '70s ('72?) article on Duke Pearson: "Mickey Roker checks out his see-through drums. (One night, someone asked if a spotlight was shining in his eye. He snapped, 'I could read a chart with one eye blindfolded and the other eye bloodshot.' He probably could."

I love Mickey Roker, so that bit stood out. If Roker wasn't a good fit for the recording (which I haven't heard), I'd be surprised. If that is indeed the case, I don't think that a lack of reading ability would be the reason.

I think that it'd be great if some enterprising label approached Hersch about releasing some of the treasure trove of music that he has stashed away in his closet, like the trio with Sam Jones and Al Harewood or his work with Joe Henderson.

[Big Wheel]

Looks like a few voices of dissent have been aroused. 'I die happy' (;

So when asked about which parts of an 18000-word interview are bitchy you cite...examples from a run-of-the-mill 1000-word blindfold test.

Try again.

[fasstrack]

I don't have to try. You're trying for me. VERY trying...

[Big Wheel]

Hey, if you want to keep up the impression that you saw the words "Fred Hersch" and couldn't wait to jump in with "OMG Fred Hersch is such a BITCHY BITCH QUEEN BITCH" without even reading the full DTM interview...keep doing what you're doing.

[Aggie87]

As a sidenote, I really enjoyed Copland's first duet recording with Greg Osby, I think it is called Round & Round but would have to check later. Haven't heard their other recording yet.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Aggie87

[fasstrack]

Hey, if you want to keep up the impression that you saw the words "Fred Hersch" and couldn't wait to jump in with "OMG Fred Hersch is such a BITCHY BITCH QUEEN BITCH" without even reading the full DTM interview...keep doing what you're doing.

This is getting to be fun. I haven't picked up a troll so persistent since Chuck Nessa. But he does it with surgical precision, God love him. In and out.

For the 2nd time yes, I read the whole thing. Now can I go out, or should I have my P.O. check with you first?

[Steve Reynolds]

I loved the interview except maybe fascinated yet taken aback regarding the open discussion of other's drug usage/abuse, etc.

I do *hear* some of the arrogance that fasstrack mentions and it seems he does a very high opinion of his own music - music which I have little familiarity with - although I did see him in a small venue perform Mingus music with a fine quintet (Berne, Bynum, Hebert and Ches Smith) and alas, the material selection (3 latish ballds like Duke Ellington's Sound of Love) seemed to mirror Hersch's playing - a bit safe, very correct and very well done.

maybe too well done....certainly less exciting than I expected, maybe both him and the band.

what I also do seem to hear is an interesting fascination that Fred had/has with the history of the music/piano/recordings - some of the same things that Tim Berne expressed in Ethan's fine interview with Mr. Berne.

my wish is that more listeners and musicians had the same interest in the recordings of people like Berne, Hersch and the many others and what they have recorded over the past 20-30 years - it still seems that the *great* classics tower over everything else in mnay people's minds...

too bad, I think

still...

Coming Down the Mountain

[Pete C]

Reynolds, are you familiar with any of Jane Ira Bloom's music when the rhythm section was Hersch, Dresser & Previte?

[Steve Reynolds]

I had an old CD of that band and I remember liking it....

[marcello]

I found it to be a very interesting interview. Did anyone else catch this bit where Hersch talks about recording with Sam Jones: "But the only record of me with Sam is this 12-piece big band. And Keith couldn’t make it for some reason, so Mickey Roker stepped in, and he wasn’t a very good choice, because his reading wasn’t so good." The Sam Jones session was in 1979.

I love Mickey Roker, so that bit stood out. If Roker wasn't a good fit for the recording (which I haven't heard), I'd be surprised. If that is indeed the case, I don't think that a lack of reading ability would be the reason.

I think that it'd be great if some enterprising label approached Hersch about releasing some of the treasure trove of music that he has stashed away in his closet, like the trio with Sam Jones and Al Harewood or his work with Joe Henderson.

Justin, probably lack of rehearsal for a large ensemble required a lot of sight reading. Who knows, maybe Mickey didn't bring his glasses.

Many of the younger, conservatory trained musicians ( and Hersh was is that first huge wave of them) have a lot more practical practice in reading on the fly.

I have a tape of maybe three songs of the Tom Harrell/Sam Jones Big Band, but the only person identified is Harold Vick IIRC.

[Chuck Nessa]

For those reading my earlier post (bitching about a post deleted) I was wrong. I made a post related to this thread in the "Bixing" thread and confused the two. Same subject(s) different thread.