Riverside CDR

[bertrand]

And now throw Atlantic records in the mix. I just got Mingus Three Or Four Shades Of Blues from Barnes And Noble. The typeset on the CD label and the booklet sure looks photocopied to me.

Has anyone gotten Atlantics that were CD-Rs?

Looking at Amazon, their copy is a CD-R. I am going to be in a mall with a BN store later today and bring the thing to them. I plan to be firm but polite that this is unacceptable. At least Amazon has the disclaimer, and the Bastards make a point of saying when a CD is not a CD-R. Are these the only two retailers that address the issue at all on their site? I will never buy anything again from any online store if Amazon says theirs is a CD-R, unless Dusty Groove specifically has a disclaimer about that title.

Deep Discount did give me a refund for the Lonnie Smith CD, but it took forever due to some administrative snafu.

Bertrand.

[926am]

Abut 2 years ago I ordered Mingus at Antibes (Barnes and Noble) and it was a cd-r. I returned it and bought another copy from a different seller and it was fine.

I only buy used DOCUMENT cds and and will ask the seller to identify the cd as a factory pressed cd or cd-r.

[bertrand]

I was able to return the Mingus. B+N were very gracious about it. It's Atlantic's fault, not BNs. They have 100 of these in the warehouse.

Beware of Atlantic!

Bertrand.

[Chuck Nessa]

Just received a cdr when I ordered Basie Jam #3 on OJC/Pablo.

[paul secor]

That stinks. (The fact that it's a CDR, not the music.)

[Ken Dryden]

If labels and sellers are offering CDRs, they should be charging less and being up front about what they are selling. I hate CDRs disguised as manufactured CDs, with some Amazon sellers being frequent culprits, though Amazon's own listings seem to mention when something is a CDR that they sell. Those damned labels have a tendency to work loose, a real problem if you use a slot-loading CD player. 

As for backing up all of my CDs and CDRs on digital files, good luck. That would be very time consuming due to the size of my collection.

 

 

[AaronG]

I bought Gil Evans & Ten (OJC) this past Friday...damn CD-R.  Lesson learned: no more OJCs unless they're used and I can see them.  Of course, I tweeted this out, aimed at Concord and OJC.  Needless to say, they won't be re-tweeting it.  Same thing happened with a disc from Candid ("Smoke" by Jaki Byard) and one from VSOP ("Live At Dana Point 1957" by Warne Marsh).  I gave up on those labels too.  Now it's used only.  It's one thing if you know what you're getting (Satchmo at the National Press Club, for example, only available as a CD-R or digitally) but to not have it specified should be a crime.

[jcam_44]

Not sure if anyone has experience with 504 Records but the one title I have from them is a cd-r. Bought it from Louisiana Music Factory. Maybe jeffcrom would know if all their releases are cd-r? I'm heading to New Orleans next week and would like to pick up some more but not at the price they want if cd-r's.

Edited August 4, 2015 by jcam_44

[jeffcrom]

Not sure if anyone has experience with 504 Records but the one title I have from them is a cd-r. Bought it from Louisiana Music Factory. Maybe jeffcrom would know if all their releases are cd-r? I'm heading to New Orleans next week and would like to pick up some more but not at the price they want if cd-r's.

The 504 CDs I have are all legit, but I haven't bought any for a couple of years, so I don't know what they're up to these days. (I have most of their older releases on LP.)

I've stopped buying any new jazz or blues CDs put out by the Concord group (Prestige, Riverside, Contemporary, Pablo, etc.); I've been burned too many times. If I want something on those labels that I don't already have, I seek out a used copy.

Edited August 4, 2015 by jeffcrom

[AllenLowe]

the thing about CDRs for commercial release, in addition to everything else, is that their resale value, for a private owner, is nil.

[king ubu]

I've bought at least one CD-R from Concord/Fantasy as well, and most recently one by Mode/V.S.O.P. - neither time it was properly described, both times bought via one of those large vendors using amazon marketplace.

But who's the source of this I wonder? Is it really the label itself?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I've bought at least one CD-R from Concord/Fantasy as well, and most recently one by Mode/V.S.O.P. - neither time it was properly described, both times bought via one of those large vendors using amazon marketplace.

But who's the source of this I wonder? Is it really the label itself?

In the case of Mode/V.S.O.P., it's most definitely the label. They have decided to use this manufacturing model moving forward. As a result, I've decided that I won't support that business model moving forward.

[erwbol]

New World Records is another label that has started using CD-Rs for back catalog titles without notifying their customers.

Edited September 11, 2015 by erwbol

[king ubu]

In the case of Mode/V.S.O.P., it's most definitely the label. They have decided to use this manufacturing model moving forward. As a result, I've decided that I won't support that business model moving forward.

I think though that they're quite straightforward about it (though in my case it was a disc listed as "Audio CD" with no further comment, bought via one of those secondary vendors - but I guess it would have been the same had I ordered from Amazon themselves).

Wasn't aware of New World doing the same though - I actually would still love to get the two Cecil Taylor albums, only have copies once provided by a friend. But replacing CDRs with CDRs would be a drag.

[jcam_44]

In the case of Mode/V.S.O.P., it's most definitely the label. They have decided to use this manufacturing model moving forward. As a result, I've decided that I won't support that business model moving forward.

I think though that they're quite straightforward about it (though in my case it was a disc listed as "Audio CD" with no further comment, bought via one of those secondary vendors - but I guess it would have been the same had I ordered from Amazon themselves).

Wasn't aware of New World doing the same though - I actually would still love to get the two Cecil Taylor albums, only have copies once provided by a friend. But replacing CDRs with CDRs would be a drag.

I've got a copy of 3 Phasis if you're interested you can PM me. 

[erwbol]

In the case of Mode/V.S.O.P., it's most definitely the label. They have decided to use this manufacturing model moving forward. As a result, I've decided that I won't support that business model moving forward.

I think though that they're quite straightforward about it (though in my case it was a disc listed as "Audio CD" with no further comment, bought via one of those secondary vendors - but I guess it would have been the same had I ordered from Amazon themselves).

Wasn't aware of New World doing the same though - I actually would still love to get the two Cecil Taylor albums, only have copies once provided by a friend. But replacing CDRs with CDRs would be a drag.

I've got a copy of 3 Phasis if you're interested you can PM me. 

I bought both 3 Phasis and Cecil Taylor Unit recently. 

3 Phasis was a CD-R, so I'd definitely go second hand there. Discogs worked fine for me. I bought the CD-R (not advertised as such) from All Your Music through Amazon UK.

Cecil Taylor Unit was a real CD. I it bought from Cliq Musique! through Amazon FR. It was their last copy and though shrink wrapped could easily have been old new stock.

Edited August 5, 2015 by erwbol

[CJ Shearn]

The thing is when you search OJC's that are now OOP, on eBay with retailers like, oddbanana, moviemars, who "claim" to have certain titles, and also claim brand new, I guess it's up to us to find out if the CD is a silver factory disc or CDR

[erwbol]

The thing is when you search OJC's that are now OOP, on eBay with retailers like, oddbanana, moviemars, who "claim" to have certain titles, and also claim brand new, I guess it's up to us to find out if the CD is a silver factory disc or CDR

I believe it's up to us to push for a full refund every time we are shipped a CD-R without prior notification. And it's up to labels and retailers to list what is what.

[CJ Shearn]

I'd agree with that, such a nefarious practice.

[king ubu]

Thing is you'll get a re-fund for the disc, but none for their nor for your own shipping costs. So it's mostly not even worth bothering as it'll just even out ... one-star-feedback is the consequence, but it will take many of those to bring down those vendor's 96-97% ratings to less than 95% (which is where I get cautious).

[erwbol]

I did recently push Amazon UK into rewarding me a full refund for the 3 Phasis CD-R. All Your Music wanted me to return the beer coaster they had sent me to the Uk for approximately €5.5 at my own cost, but I flat out refused and opened a dispute. My argument was that All Your Music should have clearly stated in their description it was a CD-R they were selling. Amazon itself, of course, does provide this info. Their counterargument was that the disc was shrink-wrapped and the label had neglected to inform them. I made sure to let Amazon know my low opinion of CD-Rs. The customer is king as we say in the Netherlands.

Opening a PayPal dispute for sales through eBay will result in PayPal siding with the seller that the item must be returned for any kind of refund. On the other hand if an item is lost in the mail PayPal does provide a full refund without a fuss. Go and draw your own conclusion from that. It does not pay to be honest at eBay/PayPal. 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2015 by erwbol

[AllenLowe]

I do believe that paypal also refunds the shipping cost.

[erwbol]

That is true, but the problem is that free return addresses often aren't free from abroad (Amazon EU being the exception). Those cost will not be refunded, and shipping abroad from the Netherlands can be quite expensive.

[jcam_44]

Not sure if anyone has experience with 504 Records but the one title I have from them is a cd-r. Bought it from Louisiana Music Factory. Maybe jeffcrom would know if all their releases are cd-r? I'm heading to New Orleans next week and would like to pick up some more but not at the price they want if cd-r's.

The 504 CDs I have are all legit, but I haven't bought any for a couple of years, so I don't know what they're up to these days. (I have most of their older releases on LP.)

I've stopped buying any new jazz or blues CDs put out by the Concord group (Prestige, Riverside, Contemporary, Pablo, etc.); I've been burned too many times. If I want something on those labels that I don't already have, I seek out a used copy.

While in Louisiana Music Factory I overheard one of the employees say to another "they were going to press up more copies this afternoon." I didn't inquire what they were talking about but I suspect they may be creating CDr copies on site. It wouldn't bother me so much if I knew before purchase it was a CDr. 

[erwbol]

Universal Europe has also started using CD-Rs for older titles that they have run out of stock on.

This afternoon I received a CD-R copy of Joe Henderson in Japan that was manufactured in the EU.

Needless to say I immediately returned the item to bol.com. Fortunately, I had yet to pay for the order by bank transfer.