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Jazz albums reissued on CD by Atlantic Japan


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#31 mikeweil

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:33 AM

Sound varies widely on these Atlantic recordings - some of the early sessions from the 1950's were beautifully recorded, but at a low level, causing audible tape hiss. Some early stereo sessions are sonic disasters (as Michael Cuscuna named it at the occasion of the Atlantic MJQ box set on Mosaic). Each tape must be treated individually.

 

However, a mint condition first generation mono LP, beats it all.  


Edited by mikeweil, 08 December 2013 - 06:34 AM.


#32 jazzbo

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:05 AM

The treble boost on the Warner Japan CDs is highly grating, but might compensate for thirty years of hearing loss.  ;)

 

On second hearing some BNLT999s have set me thinking after reading comments here. Unfortunately my equipment is all packed right now.

The two BNLA999s I've heard have not set me thinking (Bobby Hutcherson's Live at Montreux & McCoy Tyner's Extensions).

 

Interesting. Can't really say I hear treble boost in most of those i have.



#33 erwbol

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:29 AM

 

The treble boost on the Warner Japan CDs is highly grating, but might compensate for thirty years of hearing loss.  ;)

 

On second hearing some BNLT999s have set me thinking after reading comments here. Unfortunately my equipment is all packed right now.

The two BNLA999s I've heard have not set me thinking (Bobby Hutcherson's Live at Montreux & McCoy Tyner's Extensions).

 

Interesting. Can't really say I hear treble boost in most of those i have.

 

The Blakey-Monk and Mingus clearly show a treble boost on my system, especially when compared to the Passions of a Man box set and the following release of the Blakey album. 

I think you mentioned somewhere you can easily adjust the highs on your system so it is possible for you to enjoy most modern remasters?

41_Q5_P47_T3_AL.jpg

I did not plan on ever discussing these Warner Japan Atlantic discs again, so this is likely the last time I will reply to this thread.


Edited by erwbol, 08 December 2013 - 10:35 AM.


#34 king ubu

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:48 AM

Uhm, why do you picture that edition of the Blakey/Monk? Happens to be the one I've got ...



#35 Head Man

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:14 AM

Uhm, why do you picture that edition of the Blakey/Monk? Happens to be the one I've got ...

 

...you won't get an answer  :w



#36 erwbol

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:14 AM

Uhm, why do you picture that edition of the Blakey/Monk? Happens to be the one I've got ...

Because it's the one I compared the Japanese disc to.

 

Also, I might not have been importing Japanese CDs for thirty years, but I have been collecting Japanese discs from the eighties, nineties and 21st century for a while now and comparing these against EU/US releases.



#37 king ubu

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:25 AM

Okay, thanks!

 

It's the only of that series that I happen to have ... got the Minguses and Coltranes in the respective boxes and have alyways been very happy with those (had some of the old "domestic" Atlantic CDs by Mingus before, but back then - I was a teenager - I wouldn't even bother to compare anything, rather just gave away duplicates).



#38 Late

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 11:09 PM

With some trepidation, I bring this thread up (from two huge months ago) ...  :smirk: ... to discuss sonics :rfr  and music  :rlol .

 

I, wisely or unwisely, ordered nine titles from this (24-bit WPCR) series. If it helps anyone regarding purchase decisions (within this series), this post will have been a moderate personal success. Here are some subjective reactions:

 

1. Lennie Tristano: "Tristano"

 

If you have the U.S. edition, no need to purchase the Japanese disc. The sound on the Japanese disc is not bad (the session wasn't well-recorded to begin with, I'm guessing), but is no better than the U.S. disc. This Japanese edition sounds like it uses some compression. There are peaks that hurt the ears. I wish I would have purchased the 20-bit AMCY edition when it was available.

 

2. Lennie Tristano: "The New Tristano"

 

Get this one — not because the sonics are superior to the U.S. edition (they're about equal), but because it reinstates the missing track from the U.S. edition: "C Minor Complex." I haven't heard the EU edition.

 

3. The Max Roach Trio Featuring the Legendary Hasaan

 

I haven't heard the U.S. edition(s) — I think there are two. This one doesn't sound so good (a fair amount of hard-panning, and the piano sounds fairly distant and brittle), BUT the music is ... so good. Who knows, maybe this edition is the best out there. I wouldn't know. But for 952¥, you can at least hear it. There's still a TON to be written/thought about regarding Hasaan's playing. And how much Monk influence there is/isn't.

 

4. John Lewis: Improvised Meditations & Excursions

 

Again, I have no comparison, but this one sounds GOOD —  :o. Drums are clean and (seemingly) not boosted. Piano isn't bloated (how could Lewis's piano ever be bloated)? Bass is somewhat thuddy, but not booming. This is my first exposure to this album. I love the "squareness" of Lewis's piano. That seems like a slight, but I don't mean it to be. In fact, I find Lewis's playing to be hip in a way that Wynton Kelly, Bill Evans, or Herbie Hancock could never be. The pleats are ironed, and the aftershave (not too much) is on — neat (like a proper martini).

 

5. Billy Taylor: One For Fun

 

Eff. I LOVE this album. This disc sounds too loud to me. Eff. Eff. Eff. Again, I wish I'd purchased the AMCY edition (how many years back?). I don't like this Japanese edition (but will listen to it anyway). The music, to me, is some of Taylor's best, hippest, playing — very much overlooked. Earl May is killer.

 

6. Shorty Rogers: Martians Come Back!

 

Oh eff. What the eff. Are you effing kidding me? What the eff did you say? I couldn't hear you! This disc makes Jimmy Giuffre's (heaven-sent) clarinet sound like a barge horn. If I were a cartoon character, I would stomp on the disc, take a bite out of it, throw it out the door, run outside, and then stomp on it some more. I love the music on this album. The sonics (maybe it never sounded so good to begin with? I hope so ~ ) kill me. I never use this smiley, but here it goes:  :bad: . Please, someone, tell me I had too much whiskey when I listened (listen) to this. Tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I will keep trying. smiley-angry028.gif

 

7. Ornette Coleman: Ornette On Tenor

 

Finally! This one sounds good. Ornette's tenor is personal and up-front, Jimmy Garrison's bass is better-defined than in the U.S. box set, and it's not too loud. (It's louder than the U.S. edition, but not in a peak-hitting way.) I will go on record again as stating that this is a grossly under-valued Ornette recording. What tenor player could or can play like this? Here is a marker for bad-ass:  :bwallace: . Thank you, Ben Wallace.

 

8. Ornette Coleman: Ornete!

 

To be honest, I haven't listened enough to this one to give it any kind of review. To be continued.

 

9. Roland Kirk: The Inflated Tear

 

Overall, sounds better than the U.S. "deluxe" toilet paper roll edition — whew. Piano parts are cleaner, bass does boom on parts, and Kirk's horn is up-front, but not glaringly so. Does anyone else get choked up (not all the time, but sometimes?) listening to the title track? Jesus — what a piece of music. A great album. Jimmy Hopps = underrated drummer. Also has to be one of the best (most fun) bonus tracks ... ever. 

 

 

Scientific? No. Informed? Partially. Literary? Definitely Not.

 

But the music itself keeps a person up into the night, listening ...  :eye:  :eye: .


Edited by Late, 16 February 2014 - 01:34 PM.


#39 ArtSalt

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:19 AM

With some trepidation, I bring this thread up (from two huge months ago) ...  :smirk: ... to discuss sonics :rfr  and music  :rlol .

 

3. The Max Roach Trio Featuring the Legendary Hasaan

 

I haven't heard the U.S. edition(s) — I think there are two. This one doesn't sound so good (a fair amount of hard-panning, and the piano sounds fairly distant and brittle), BUT the music is ... so good. Who knows, maybe this edition is the best out there. I wouldn't know. But for 952¥, you can at least hear it. There's still a TON to be written/thought about regarding Hasaan's playing. And how much Monk influence there is/isn't.

 

Scientific? No. Informed? Partially. Literary? Definitely Not.

 

But the music itself keeps a person up into the night, listening ...  :eye:  :eye: .

The sound on these series have underwhelmed me too, the Jimmy Giuffre ones are also dissapointing and flat. The Max Roach and Hassan failed to ignite me too and I just haven't been back to listen to any of these after the first listen. The ones I have are all the Rhino remasters and despite having obi strips and being sourced from Japan, a number I have found to be made in the EU (Max Roach and Hassan).

 

It drives me mad listening to the different sonic characteristics and quality of remasters trying to find the ultimate version!



#40 J.A.W.

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 06:15 AM

I got a few of these WPCR CDs and listened to them only once many months ago. I found most of them a tad too loud, as I posted earlier. After reading Late's post above I just listened to Billy Taylor's One for Fun again and I totally agree, it's way too loud; very unpleasant and fatiguing.

#41 J.A.W.

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 12:17 PM

Also played Charles Lloyd's Dream Weaver in this series. I never really liked this album but thought I'd give it another try; after a few minutes it became clear that it's not for me. I didn't like the sound on this reissue very much either, but it's not as bad as the Billy Taylor I listened to earlier today.

#42 Late

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 01:30 PM

Oops. I forgot I had 13 of these discs, not nine. The additional four: three Eddie Harris's, and To Whom Who Keeps A Record. I need to listen to the Harris titles again to make any kind of coherent review. The Ornette title is a rare improvement to my ears. I haven't heard the Water edition of this disc, but the WPCR edition sounds better than the U.S. box set.

 

I think my problem with this series is that I purchased the Ornette titles first, they sounded OK to me, and then I dove in for more thinking they'd all sound along these lines. Nope. Frustrating. Will the Billy Taylor title ever be given a decent remaster? Perhaps not. You can tell (well, I'm assuming) that the session is actually well-recorded. The mp3 download I have from Amazon of this record is actually better than the Japanese edition.  smiley-angry002.gif



#43 sidewinder

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 01:37 PM

I was thinking of buying a few of these at £5 a shot but reading through this thread has put me right off...


However, a mint condition first generation mono LP, beats it all.  

Have to agree that that definitely applies to most Atlantics I have heard.


Edited by sidewinder, 16 February 2014 - 01:38 PM.


#44 Clunky

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 01:47 PM

I was thinking of buying a few of these at £5 a shot but reading through this thread has put me right off...


However, a mint condition first generation mono LP, beats it all.  

Have to agree that that definitely applies to most Atlantics I have heard.

 

"London" Atlantics and are a pretty good and cheaper option (usually)



#45 sidewinder

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 01:48 PM

I agree with the London Atlantics. A good example is the John Coltrane 'Giant Steps' mono. Fantastic sonics on that one.



#46 J.A.W.

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:08 PM

Oops. I forgot I had 13 of these discs, not nine. The additional four: three Eddie Harris's, and To Whom Who Keeps A Record. I need to listen to the Harris titles again to make any kind of coherent review. The Ornette title is a rare improvement to my ears. I haven't heard the Water edition of this disc, but the WPCR edition sounds better than the U.S. box set.
 
I think my problem with this series is that I purchased the Ornette titles first, they sounded OK to me, and then I dove in for more thinking they'd all sound along these lines. Nope. Frustrating. Will the Billy Taylor title ever be given a decent remaster? Perhaps not. You can tell (well, I'm assuming) that the session is actually well-recorded. The mp3 download I have from Amazon of this record is actually better than the Japanese edition.  smiley-angry002.gif


I sold my individual Ornette Atlantic CDs when I got the Beauty Is a Rare Thing box; the sound on that box is good enough for me and, as I said elsewhere, I like to hear the tracks in recorded order.

As for the Billy Taylor One for Fun remaster that I played earlier today, I just found out that I have the Japanese remaster from 2006, WPCR-25140. Judging by Late's assessment I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same remaster for his version, it might just be a reissue of the earlier one. Anyway, mine really did sound bad.

Edited by J.A.W., 16 February 2014 - 02:14 PM.


#47 Clunky

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:39 PM

I'd not played this one until today and it's the first of this WPCR-27xxx series I don't care for. In part it's Rosolino's singing and the sound is a touch on the harsh side. All sounds a bit too much like a shouting match.

Frank Rosolino ---------Turn me loose--------(Reprise) WPCR 27233


On the other hand this sounds well balanced, driving but not in any way fatiguing


Clarke/ Boland band --------Jazz is universal------(Atlantic)


Both do these are Euro-Japanese issues ( for what it's worth)

#48 xybert

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:43 PM

 

4. John Lewis: Improvised Meditations & Excursions

 

Again, I have no comparison, but this one sounds GOOD —  :o. Drums are clean and (seemingly) not boosted. Piano isn't bloated (how could Lewis's piano ever be bloated)? Bass is somewhat thuddy, but not booming. This is my first exposure to this album. I love the "squareness" of Lewis's piano. That seems like a slight, but I don't mean it to be. In fact, I find Lewis's playing to be hip in a way that Wynton Kelly, Bill Evans, or Herbie Hancock could never be. The pleats are ironed, and the aftershave (not too much) is on — neat (like a proper martini).

 

 

I picked this one up also and was really surprised by how much i've enjoyed it. I think i know what you mean by the 'squareness' of Lewis's piano and it not being a bad thing... it sounds quite hip to me. My self imposed perceptions of Lewis and the MJQ continue to change.

 

Sound wise the Lewis sounds good to me, however i picked up a couple of Art Farmers which are basically unlistenable for me, which is saying something as i'm normally not that fussy.



#49 jazzbo

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:46 PM

I've been playing about with polarity on these releases, which is easy for me to do as my DAC has a button. Interesting results.



#50 king ubu

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:06 AM

 

 

4. John Lewis: Improvised Meditations & Excursions

 

Again, I have no comparison, but this one sounds GOOD —  :o. Drums are clean and (seemingly) not boosted. Piano isn't bloated (how could Lewis's piano ever be bloated)? Bass is somewhat thuddy, but not booming. This is my first exposure to this album. I love the "squareness" of Lewis's piano. That seems like a slight, but I don't mean it to be. In fact, I find Lewis's playing to be hip in a way that Wynton Kelly, Bill Evans, or Herbie Hancock could never be. The pleats are ironed, and the aftershave (not too much) is on — neat (like a proper martini).

 

 

I picked this one up also and was really surprised by how much i've enjoyed it. I think i know what you mean by the 'squareness' of Lewis's piano and it not being a bad thing... it sounds quite hip to me. My self imposed perceptions of Lewis and the MJQ continue to change.

 

Sound wise the Lewis sounds good to me, however i picked up a couple of Art Farmers which are basically unlistenable for me, which is saying something as i'm normally not that fussy.

 

 

That's a delightful album indeed!

 

But, this and a few others discussed in Late's post made me wonder, too ... are we talking of Japanese Warners or of the European ones that look like Japanese but aren't? My Lewis is among the later, so is the Clarke/Boland, so are all the Lloyds ... and more Lewis, Bags, and others ... they go for 4-5 € on amazon.it).

 

btw, never was hip to the track mix-up (deletion?) on the Tristano ... happy owner of the Mosaic set (was my very first) and happy with that in all respects ...



#51 king ubu

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 07:43 AM

bump ...let me ask again: are we talking Warner Japan only? Or have those Euro-Wannabe-Makebelieve-Japanese reissues appeared recently as proper Japanases reissues and the remasterings used are identical?



#52 Clunky

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:49 AM

bump ...let me ask again: are we talking Warner Japan only? Or have those Euro-Wannabe-Makebelieve-Japanese reissues appeared recently as proper Japanases reissues and the remasterings used are identical?

 

I've assumed they use identical masterings. The only difference as far as I can tell is slightly cheaper printing stock is used in the Euro-wannabe.. CDs, and flimsier disc boxes. 



#53 king ubu

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:58 AM

Okay, thanks!



#54 Alexandros

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 12:10 PM

 

bump ...let me ask again: are we talking Warner Japan only? Or have those Euro-Wannabe-Makebelieve-Japanese reissues appeared recently as proper Japanases reissues and the remasterings used are identical?

 

I've assumed they use identical masterings. The only difference as far as I can tell is slightly cheaper printing stock is used in the Euro-wannabe.. CDs, and flimsier disc boxes. 

 

I thought that these were actually the genuine japanese ones we get from cdjapan etc.  Thanks. I am playin now "Rahsaan Rahsaan". Pretty good!



#55 Clunky

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 12:31 PM

 

 

bump ...let me ask again: are we talking Warner Japan only? Or have those Euro-Wannabe-Makebelieve-Japanese reissues appeared recently as proper Japanases reissues and the remasterings used are identical?

 

I've assumed they use identical masterings. The only difference as far as I can tell is slightly cheaper printing stock is used in the Euro-wannabe.. CDs, and flimsier disc boxes. 

 

I thought that these were actually the genuine japanese ones we get from cdjapan etc.  Thanks. I am playin now "Rahsaan Rahsaan". Pretty good!

 

 

i'm sure the ones from cdjapan are indeed Japanese manufactured discs. The "Euro-wannabe" discs are widely available in the UK and other parts of Europe at a low price ( £5). These look like Japanese discs in that they come with OBIs and full Japanese livery only written in very small font..... "Made in EU"



#56 king ubu

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 08:51 AM

often just 4.15€ at amazon.it, where I bought about two dozen ... and indeed "Made in EU" - but there's a lot more available in the Japanese batches (though I'm not sure all the wannabees are part of the Japanese reissue series, I lose overview of all these too quickly!)



#57 jazzbo

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 09:41 AM

 

 

The treble boost on the Warner Japan CDs is highly grating, but might compensate for thirty years of hearing loss.  ;)

 

On second hearing some BNLT999s have set me thinking after reading comments here. Unfortunately my equipment is all packed right now.

The two BNLA999s I've heard have not set me thinking (Bobby Hutcherson's Live at Montreux & McCoy Tyner's Extensions).

 

Interesting. Can't really say I hear treble boost in most of those i have.

 

The Blakey-Monk and Mingus clearly show a treble boost on my system, especially when compared to the Passions of a Man box set and the following release of the Blakey album. 

I think you mentioned somewhere you can easily adjust the highs on your system so it is possible for you to enjoy most modern remasters?

41_Q5_P47_T3_AL.jpg

I did not plan on ever discussing these Warner Japan Atlantic discs again, so this is likely the last time I will reply to this thread.

 

Sorry, I didn't see this post before. You're absolutely right, there could well be a treble boost on these that I don't notice as I have the treble dialed back considerably on my system as a default for CD, and if it's REALLY bad I'll notice it, so I guess that was an inaccurate statement on my part. I guess with the adjustments I've made these don't present an uncomfortable level of treble for me, and are an improvement over the earlier US versions I have in my opinion. I thank my lucky stars every day for the treble cut circuit on my amp placed right before the speakers, adjustibly shunting high frequency to ground outside the signal path. I avoid many of the problems that tone controls present and still can tailor the top end, which I am very sensitive to.  I also can scal back the ribbon tweeters on my speakers and do. It makes cd buying easier for me.

 

I've picked up a few of the Coltranes in this series and am enjoying them, especially the two mono discs.



#58 king ubu

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 09:58 AM

I've picked up a few of the Coltranes in this series and am enjoying them, especially the two mono discs.


Ignorant question, apologies: which ones would those be? And was the Heavyweight box all in stereo?

#59 sidewinder

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:11 AM

I've just picked up 3 of them for £5 each from FOPP - Charles Lloyd 'Flowering of...', Duke Pearson 'Prairie Dog' and Gil Evans 'Svengali'. If I like the mastering of the Lloyd I'll go for some of the other titles of his.


Edited by sidewinder, 22 February 2014 - 10:11 AM.


#60 jazzbo

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:23 AM

 

I've picked up a few of the Coltranes in this series and am enjoying them, especially the two mono discs.


Ignorant question, apologies: which ones would those be? And was the Heavyweight box all in stereo?

 

Yes, I don't think there's any mono in the box set, unless some of the alternates are (haven't listened to those in ages).

 

There are mono "My Favorite Things" and "Giant Steps" from Japan in this series.





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