Wynton is live right now...

[Hardbopjazz]

http://jalc.org/multimedia/webcasts/live-from-doha?reset=1

[Hardbopjazz]

I watched both sets and was not impressed. But I've never been a fan of Wynton's jazz playing.

[ValerieB]

i enjoyed the first set that was streamed. JALC is doing an amazing thing in bringing jazz in Doha to the world!!

[king ubu]

(but then who cares for Doha - or Dubai or whatever - except for the global elite running the world?)

[sonnymax]

Wynton is live right now . . . but there's always hope that tomorrow . . .

[Christiern]

I still believe that Wynton is a blight on jazz, a man who owes his prominence to his job rather than his musical talent.

[flat5]

I just do not understand the hate this fine man and musician receives.

[AllenLowe]

because he's a not-so-good player making 1.5 million per year helping to make jazz irrelevant in both a market and artistic sense. Let's face it, Valerie is his only fan.

[AllenLowe]

or as Yogi Berra might say, no one listens to him anymore; he's too popular.

[CJ Shearn]

It's an ok set, not bowling me over either.

[fasstrack]

because he's a not-so-good player... make jazz irrelevant in both a market and artistic sense.

I shouldn't, I KNOW I shouldn't..but WTF, I've always been a little nuts. So.. c'mon, man, a 'not-so-good player'? Maybe not your favorite (nor mine, but accomplishment is still to be respected). And re 'making jazz irrelevant', even in a market sense, whatever you think of JALC it EXISTS-and in one of the most expensive pieces of real estate in the world. I'd like to see any of US pull THAT off, raise untold funds, not to mention the political legerdermain (sp?) required. When we throw around canards like 'not forward looking' it may have some truth, but there's the donors and deep political waters navigated to have ANY kind of program there. I saw Lee Konitz taking it out, Ahmad Jamal on the same bill, Barry Harris-Hank Jones, and a pre-Time Warner great Wayne Shorter event, including a commission piece of originality-all at the evil JALC.

[Christiern]

The truth is that Wynton owes his fame to a job given him largely for reasons that have little or nothing to do with his musical talent. He is technically impressive, but his performances very rarely have any emotional depth. Wynton was groomed by a PR woman and a Columbia Records lackey to fit the look and demeanor accepted by white corporate types of the kind who took over and seriously diluted the record industry. He landed a job that several contemporary performer/teachers were far more qualified to hold, and that in and of itself guarantees prominence.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

true dat! :tup

[CJ Shearn]

The truth is that Wynton owes his fame to a job given him largely for reasons that have little or nothing to do with his musical talent. He is technically impressive, but his performances very rarely have any emotional depth. Wynton was groomed by a PR woman and a Columbia Records lackey to fit the look and demeanor accepted by white corporate types of the kind who took over and seriously diluted the record industry. He landed a job that several contemporary performer/teachers were far more qualified to hold, and that in and of itself guarantees prominence.

Exactly what I told someone yesterday.

[fasstrack]

Ah, I knew I was wasting my time. Just have to take such mean-spirited rancor from where-and who-it comes. I'm not going to waste anymore energy or bandwith on this. Let the courageous pummeling by people who have contributed so much to jazz continue.

[Dan Gould]

+1

[Christiern]

When Fass does not agree with someone's post (as is often the case), he reaches into his bag of indignant reactions and pulls out the "mean-spirited" label.

[Quasimado]

When Fass does not agree with someone's post (as is often the case), he reaches into his bag of indignant reactions and pulls out the "mean-spirited" label.

Seems to fit - can't you guys get over this shit?

Q

[Larry Kart]

because he's a not-so-good player... make jazz irrelevant in both a market and artistic sense.

I shouldn't, I, whatever you think of JALC it EXISTS-and in one of the most expensive pieces of real estate in the world. I'd like to see any of US pull THAT off, raise untold funds, not to mention the political legerdermain (sp?) required.

Did you ever stop to enquire about/question several things? One -- what does "it exists" mean, beyond the fact that JALC exists like, say, Seventh Ave. exists? Two -- what is the relationship, both in terms of how JALC got there and what it is doing there, i.e. between that existence in the first sense and its existence "in one of the most expensive pieces of real estate in the world"? This is incidental? What interests are served by this cozy relationship? What was/is going on behind the scenes there? As for "raising "untold funds," where do those funds go? To what ends? What purposes are served? As for "political legerdermain," I have it on high authority that Rahm Emmanuel will take over from Wynton at JALC.

[AllenLowe]

Joel. don't go away, we're having a good discussion here. Because if you think about it, Wynton has overseen JALC, with it's enormous tentacles, during the biggest market decline in the history of jazz - this does not mean it's his fault - but that he has had no real impact. So something is wrong with this picture - JALC. the most highly funded jazz program in the history of the universe, benefits only a narrow circle and has had virtually no wider cultural impact,. It has NOT helped the tired, huddled masses of jazz musicians, and has not, with all its zillions of dollars, been able to increase jazz's market share by even a piddling amount. That is really strange - or, really, it isn't. It's the inevitable result of a program that is so personality-centric.

Edited October 7, 2012 by AllenLowe

[marcello]

Both Allen and Larry speak the truth.

Regarding Larry's questions: I'm sure being a not for profit had a lot to do with JALC being in that building because tax advantages that are possible. JALC does have jazz education programs that employ working musicians and other outreach programs based there, but they are staffed by many FOW (Friends of Wynton). Like any large corporation, there's a lot of ass kissing that goes on there.

Having said all of that, I love to go to Dizzy's, one of the great world wide jazz venues, when the music is right and to see Toddy Bear, and the other concert venues are state of the art with sometimes wonderful programs.

The Rose Theater, by the way, is named after one of the developers.

I also think that Wynton can play the shit out the trumpet, but he's no innovator or gifted composer.

[AllenLowe]

it is true that Wynton's composing is maddeningly bad, IMHO; he is a good trumpeter, I'd put him in my band in a minute (well, a minute and a half; only if Randy Sandke is unavailable). A few years ago I was driving somewhere and a big band thing came on the radio; I was completely blank on who it might be, but I found the piece repulsive - it was ersatz Ellington, vulgar, really, sounded like a parody - now I swear I had NO idea who it was - well, as you can guess, it was one of Wynton's things; and music rarely offends me, unless it has some level of dishonesty or some perversion of ideas; and this was exactly that.

Edited October 8, 2012 by AllenLowe

[Teasing the Korean]

... I found the piece repulsive - it was ersatz Ellington, vulgar, really, sounded like a parody - now I swear I had NO idea who it was - well, as you can guess, it was one of Wynton's things; and music rarely offends me, unless it has some level of dishonesty or some perversion of ideas; and this was exactly that.

I can respect artists who set out to specifically re-create an aesthetic or style, if it is done well and presented without any pretensions of it being any more than what it is.

But there is something very smarmy and almost self-righteous about the way this crowd apes its heroes and tries to pass off the results as something contemporary, original or relevant.

[JSngry]

Contemporary, original, and relevant:

None of the above:

"Great players" and all that, but...totally none of the above. Totally. None.

And yeah, I know that comparisons are not "fair". Too fucking bad about that.

Edited October 8, 2012 by JSngry

[johnlitweiler]

That Lincoln Center gig is political. What genuinely worthwhile jazz artist would, or even could, have expended the energy, ingenuity, and charm to mount such big political (not musical) successes?

As a trumpeter he used to have the ability to begin solos with arresting phrases, even if solos declined after those. In my few listens to him in recent years I haven't noticed that so much. Rather, he's wandered around the stages playing garish solos with, for example, THIS IS BEHIND-THE-BEAT and THIS IS HALF-VALVE and THIS IS WA-WA MUTED phrases (neon lights implied). A clever and disorderly composer-arranger, I think. His orchestration of "A Love Supreme" was one of the weirder events of the 21st century.

One day some years ago I turned on a classical music radio program as a trumpet-with-orchestra piece was playing. The lovely tone and the attack made me guess "That's Marsalis." I was right.