Hot Ptah

BFT 104 Discussion Thread

68 posts in this topic

Well, I waited until the last minute again. I haven't looked at the thread, but I'm guessing almost everything has been identified. I didn't recognize much, but I enjoyed most of it.

1. I recognized Sun Ra’s early style (and John Gilmore’s great tenor) right away, but I couldn’t remember the name of this tune until I dug around my CDs a little. It’s “Urnack,” from Angels and Demons at Play. Besides Gilmore, we get some nice early Julian Priester and Art Hoyle. My CD says that Charles Davis is the bari soloist, but I think it’s Pat Patrick. Great track .....

Julian Priester composed Urnack.

2. Nice groove and tenor playing. They got to the first bridge awfully soon, didn’t they? I’ve got a couple of guesses, but I don’t want to embarrass myself, and it has probably already been identified by now.

3. I’m not crazy about the tune or arrangement – it’s awfully show-biz-y, and not in a good way like the Sun Ra track. But I sure the like the alto player, whoever he is – really interesting playing.

I bought this CD from you!

4. Cool – skronky and cooking. With this kind of groove you lose the interaction between soloist and rhythm section, but there are compensations in excitement. This reminds me of our own Johnny E’s Reptet, but the instrumentation isn’t quite right, I don’t think.

5. Thought for a minute that this was going to be Bo Diddley doing “Dolphin Dance.” I like the idea, and the soloists are good (particularly the tenor player), but the groove got kind of old to me after a while. I listened to this track twice, and both times wanted it to be over before it was.

6. Very nice for what it is. I like that the strings are spare, rather than lush. I also wanted it to go somewhere more than it did.

7. Well, I think that we’re supposed to think this is Prez with a small Basie group, but it ain’t. Is it Paul Qunichette? The pianist’s touch doesn’t sound like Basie, either – Nat Pierce? I really like the muted trumpet solo. And lord, I hope I haven’t embarrassed myself with this one.

Not Quinchette or Pierce.

8. More nice Basie-ish swing. The trumpet soloist sure sounds like Roy Eldridge, but I don’t know who he’s trading licks with. This is a fun, exciting track.

It is Roy.

9. Okay, this is cool. I’ve gotten more into music of the eastern Mediterranean the past few years, but I’m far from an expert, so I don’t know from what part of the Middle East or thereabouts the non-jazz elements of this piece come from. But I like it a lot – when it settles into the vamp and the tenor player starts blowing over it, it’s a beautiful thing. Thanks for this one.

10. This sounds like a piano roll, and it sounds like James P. Johnson to me, especially when it started getting more sophisticated in the second chorus. In any case, I don’t think it’s a “down home” blues player – it’s someone with lots of harmonic knowledge. Good stuff.

Yes, a piano roll. Not James P.

11. An interesting version of the Swedish folk song that we non-Swedes call “Dear Old Stockholm” because Stan Getz called it that. Nice piano. I wanted to hear the cello player improvise. Pretty cool rendition.

Not cello. You thought this bassist was playing cello on a previous BFT of mine.

12. Sounds like B.B. with a bunch of jazz guys. Is that Scofield who follows him? Everybody plays with a lot of style – this is fun.

That is right. You are the first to identify Scofield

13. Now this sounds like a Basie aircheck from the mid 1940s. It’s a Dickie Wells tune called “Kansas City Stride” which Basie recorded for V-Disc. Comparing this track to the V-Disc recording makes me think that it’s the same clarinet soloist, Rudy Rutherford. Is that Buddy Tate on tenor? Not sure about the alto or trumpet. Anyway, this is an exciting track, crappy sound quality notwithstanding.

I bought this CD from you!

14. I wondered for a minute why you would include this one – “A Train” with Ellington’s standard piano introduction – then all was made clear. Well, not all. I don’t know who the piano guest is. It’s someone with a lot of chops – more chops than originality, maybe.

Now is that any way to talk about Oscar Peterson?

15. Quirky and interesting, even if it’s not spectacular. It sounds like the guitar player is the bandleader, although I like the alto soloist more. The guitar player’s wildness does appeal to me, though. These musicians have their own sound and style, and that’s a good thing in my book.

16. This is some very accomplished guitar playing that leaves me cold.

Thanks for a good one, Hot Ptah!

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Ra for the first track? AAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!

Early Sun. Ra brings many rewards!

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Julian Priester composed Urnack.

Didn't realize that. The piece reminds me of some other early Ra swing tunes.

3. I'm not crazy about the tune or arrangement – it's awfully show-biz-y, and not in a good way like the Sun Ra track. But I sure the like the alto player, whoever he is – really interesting playing.

I bought this CD from you!

I obviously never listened to it enough to really absorb it. Glad I liked Pepper's playing, though.

13. Now this sounds like a Basie aircheck from the mid 1940s. It's a Dickie Wells tune called "Kansas City Stride" which Basie recorded for V-Disc. Comparing this track to the V-Disc recording makes me think that it's the same clarinet soloist, Rudy Rutherford. Is that Buddy Tate on tenor? Not sure about the alto or trumpet. Anyway, this is an exciting track, crappy sound quality notwithstanding.

I bought this CD from you!

That one I have regretted selling, in spite of the lousy sound.

14. I wondered for a minute why you would include this one – "A Train" with Ellington's standard piano introduction – then all was made clear. Well, not all. I don't know who the piano guest is. It's someone with a lot of chops – more chops than originality, maybe.

Now is that any way to talk about Oscar Peterson?

I though it might be Oscar. I know there are many folks here who won't get this at all, but I have never been a fan of Mr. Peterson.

Again: Thanks for a good one, Hot Ptah!

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Ra for the first track? AAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!

Early Sun. Ra brings many rewards!

I actually own that record...but obviously don't know it as well as I should.

Can you feel more like a dumbass than I do right now? I sure hope not!

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Ra for the first track? AAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!

Early Sun. Ra brings many rewards!

I actually own that record...but obviously don't know it as well as I should.

Can you feel more like a dumbass than I do right now? I sure hope not!

. I was fortunate . In 1978 I heard a very well conceived two part special on early Sun Ra on WORT-FM in Madison, Wisconsin, the all volunteer community radio station. It was the best possible introduction to early Sun Ra. The song Urnack really caught my attention from that radio show and I have always liked it since.

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My introductions to Ra were the impulse! issues, and that's one of the ones I picked up. This is going to give me a poke towards getting it out and playing it some more, so thanks for including it.

Ok, just checked, and I don't have this one at all, LP or CD. OOPS. But it has been ordered. So double thanks for including it!

Edited by JSngry

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It took me a litte longer than I hoped to post my responses, but here they are as I listened to the tracks without seeing any other comments:

1. I don’t listen to stuff like this as often as I probably should. It certainly swings. Succinct round of solos.

2. My knowledge and exposure to this is limited. It is pleasant music, but I have not developed a deep appreciation as of yet.

3. My response here is similar to the first two tracks. Good music and I am sure it is worthy of more substantive response than I can give it now. Another reminder of regardless of how overwhelmed I sometimes feel with music, there is still so much out there that I have not heard and really investigated.

4. Well this is certainly different than the first three tracks. Even though it is different, there is nothing about it familiar to me. The rockish feel is not really my thing. Unlike the first three tracks, this does not feel like something that I “should” have investigated.

5. Interesting shuffle/back line type rhythm. The trumpet solo caught and held my attention. Tenor had a solid tone and relaxed flow.

6. Reminds me a bit of one of Terence Blanchard’s projects. It sounds very cinematic, which much of Blanchard’s writing for anything other than his small group sounds like – presumably as a result of his experience writing movie scores. With that said, the trumpet does not entirely sound like Blanchard. Not something I listen to often.

7. Tenor has a Lester Youngish feel. That may be too obvious though – especially judging by the later solo. I have limited exposure to pre-bop styles, but I do enjoy it when I hear it.

8. I am having a similar response to the previous track. I can’t even begin to attempt an identification, but I recognize this as important in the continuum.

9. This has a more exotic feel than some of the other tracks. The tenor has my attention. He or she is familiar and impressive. I really enjoyed the tenor, but the track as a whole was okay.

10. The past few years I have been listening to more and more solo piano, but I must confess I have yet to listen to more historical type playing. In any event, this held my attention.

11. Sorry. But this track did not really resonate with me.

12. This track certainly has a different feel and texture than most of the other tracks. Trying to focus on the musicianship as opposed to the context – which does not really appeal to me. The tenor sounded a bit like a pop tenor. The vibes were solid and the first guitar has an interesting twang. The second guitar was closer to a rockfish feel – traces of Scofield, but not him. I give up. I can’t identify any of the musicians and I do not think I will be looking to add this recording to my own collection.

13. You certainly have eclectic tastes. We are again in that territory outside of my own personal preferences. Not a statement on the quality of the music.

14. Nice piano trio interpreting a little Ellington – at least in the beginning. Could it actually be Ellington’s band? No. Too much piano going on there. My favorite of the larger ensemble tracks.

15. Sounds like Mary Halvorson on guitar. I have heard her live quite a few times the past couple of years. Her sound is pretty recognizable to me. This track could come from her recent quintet disc on Firehouse 12 or possibly one of Tomas Fujiwara’s discs. Since the sax is an alto instead of Brian Settle’s tenor, that must be Jon Irabagon and from Halvorson’s disc. Saw this band earlier this year at Firehouse 12 in New Haven. Halvorson certainly is getting a lot of attention in the past couple of years.

16. I am not nearly a guitar afficianado, but the playing here does appeal to me. I prefer a cleaner tone, but I do not always want to hear someone in the standard jazz guitar lineage. This goes to some interesting places. No idea on the identity of the musicians.

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My introductions to Ra were the impulse! issues, and that's one of the ones I picked up. This is going to give me a poke towards getting it out and playing it some more, so thanks for including it.

Ok, just checked, and I don't have this one at all, LP or CD. OOPS. But it has been ordered. So double thanks for including it!

If you ordered the Evidence CD reissue, you will be getting the worthy "Nubians of Plutonia" album on the same disc.

It took me a litte longer than I hoped to post my responses, but here they are as I listened to the tracks without seeing any other comments:

1. I don’t listen to stuff like this as often as I probably should. It certainly swings. Succinct round of solos.

As previously identified, this is early Sun Ra, performing a Julian Priester composition.

2. My knowledge and exposure to this is limited. It is pleasant music, but I have not developed a deep appreciation as of yet.

3. My response here is similar to the first two tracks. Good music and I am sure it is worthy of more substantive response than I can give it now. Another reminder of regardless of how overwhelmed I sometimes feel with music, there is still so much out there that I have not heard and really investigated.

4. Well this is certainly different than the first three tracks. Even though it is different, there is nothing about it familiar to me. The rockish feel is not really my thing. Unlike the first three tracks, this does not feel like something that I “should” have investigated.

5. Interesting shuffle/back line type rhythm. The trumpet solo caught and held my attention. Tenor had a solid tone and relaxed flow.

6. Reminds me a bit of one of Terence Blanchard’s projects. It sounds very cinematic, which much of Blanchard’s writing for anything other than his small group sounds like – presumably as a result of his experience writing movie scores. With that said, the trumpet does not entirely sound like Blanchard. Not something I listen to often.

This is not Blanchard.

7. Tenor has a Lester Youngish feel. That may be too obvious though – especially judging by the later solo. I have limited exposure to pre-bop styles, but I do enjoy it when I hear it.

8. I am having a similar response to the previous track. I can’t even begin to attempt an identification, but I recognize this as important in the continuum.

9. This has a more exotic feel than some of the other tracks. The tenor has my attention. He or she is familiar and impressive. I really enjoyed the tenor, but the track as a whole was okay.

10. The past few years I have been listening to more and more solo piano, but I must confess I have yet to listen to more historical type playing. In any event, this held my attention.

11. Sorry. But this track did not really resonate with me.

12. This track certainly has a different feel and texture than most of the other tracks. Trying to focus on the musicianship as opposed to the context – which does not really appeal to me. The tenor sounded a bit like a pop tenor. The vibes were solid and the first guitar has an interesting twang. The second guitar was closer to a rockfish feel – traces of Scofield, but not him. I give up. I can’t identify any of the musicians and I do not think I will be looking to add this recording to my own collection.

The second guitar is Scofield. It has been identified already. The guitarist with the interesting twang has been identified as B.B. King.

13. You certainly have eclectic tastes. We are again in that territory outside of my own personal preferences. Not a statement on the quality of the music.

14. Nice piano trio interpreting a little Ellington – at least in the beginning. Could it actually be Ellington’s band? No. Too much piano going on there. My favorite of the larger ensemble tracks.

It is Ellington, with his band. As previously identified, the "too much piano" is courtesy of guest soloist Oscar Peterson.

15. Sounds like Mary Halvorson on guitar. I have heard her live quite a few times the past couple of years. Her sound is pretty recognizable to me. This track could come from her recent quintet disc on Firehouse 12 or possibly one of Tomas Fujiwara’s discs. Since the sax is an alto instead of Brian Settle’s tenor, that must be Jon Irabagon and from Halvorson’s disc. Saw this band earlier this year at Firehouse 12 in New Haven. Halvorson certainly is getting a lot of attention in the past couple of years.

It is from her quintet disc on Firehouse 12, and it is Jon Irabagon on alto saxophone.

16. I am not nearly a guitar afficianado, but the playing here does appeal to me. I prefer a cleaner tone, but I do not always want to hear someone in the standard jazz guitar lineage. This goes to some interesting places. No idea on the identity of the musicians.

Edited by Hot Ptah

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More thoughts on track 8: someone earlier mentioned Osie Johnson on the drums; was that a correct guess? Could this be Howard Rumsey on the bass? It kinda has that Lighthouse All-Stars feeling, or maybe those two 10" records that Osie put out that are nicely collected on a Fantasy CD whose name escapes me but reminds me that I need to order it before I die.

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My introductions to Ra were the impulse! issues, and that's one of the ones I picked up. This is going to give me a poke towards getting it out and playing it some more, so thanks for including it.

Ok, just checked, and I don't have this one at all, LP or CD. OOPS. But it has been ordered. So double thanks for including it!

If you ordered the Evidence CD reissue, you will be getting the worthy "Nubians of Plutonia" album on the same disc.

I did. There was another one available that had three LPs on it, but it looked kinda shady-grady, if you know what I mean.

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More thoughts on track 8: someone earlier mentioned Osie Johnson on the drums; was that a correct guess? Could this be Howard Rumsey on the bass? It kinda has that Lighthouse All-Stars feeling, or maybe those two 10" records that Osie put out that are nicely collected on a Fantasy CD whose name escapes me but reminds me that I need to order it before I die.

Those guesses are not correct.

My introductions to Ra were the impulse! issues, and that's one of the ones I picked up. This is going to give me a poke towards getting it out and playing it some more, so thanks for including it.

Ok, just checked, and I don't have this one at all, LP or CD. OOPS. But it has been ordered. So double thanks for including it!

If you ordered the Evidence CD reissue, you will be getting the worthy "Nubians of Plutonia" album on the same disc.

I did. There was another one available that had three LPs on it, but it looked kinda shady-grady, if you know what I mean.

Nubians of Plutonia has the very catchy "Watusa" and some more ambitious, but still very accessible, material.

Edited by Hot Ptah

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Ra for the first track? AAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!

Early Sun. Ra brings many rewards!

I actually own that record...but obviously don't know it as well as I should.

Can you feel more like a dumbass than I do right now? I sure hope not!

Me too!!!!

Oh well.

MG

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Ra for the first track? AAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!

Early Sun. Ra brings many rewards!

I actually own that record...but obviously don't know it as well as I should.

Can you feel more like a dumbass than I do right now? I sure hope not!

Me too!!!!

Oh well.

MG

I would not feel that way MG. It was meant to be a surprise, because unless you have heard all of the early Sun Ra albums, this is the kind of material definitely not associated with him.

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Hey, it happens to everybody, not being able to identify something in your own collection. There for a while, Mike Weil was getting a complex about it. :smirk: Once you get enough stuff, things fade from the forefront of your memory, and when your memeory starts going a little bad, the backmost reaches are often the first casualties. I've been having that happen a lot the last year or so. C'est la vie, ya' know?

I'm just glad that it turned out that I didn't own the record like I thought I did (which is another issue altogether...), and that it's inclusion here incentivezed me to go ahead and get the sucker. I been needing it, and now will have it.

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Speaking of not being able to identify things from your own collection, as played by your friends...

Track 9 is the first tune here: http://www.alaturkamusic.com/cd_store.html

Recommended music from the exotic shores of Kansas City. Too bad this band seems to be on hiatus.

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Speaking of not being able to identify things from your own collection, as played by your friends...

Track 9 is the first tune here: http://www.alaturkam...m/cd_store.html

Recommended music from the exotic shores of Kansas City. Too bad this band seems to be on hiatus.

That is correct! I overheard this CD in Prospero's Books in Kansas City, a small, independently owned used book store, and asked the owner if I could buy his copy. He had a whole stack of them behind the counter.

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So it appears that the following have not been identified: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10,16,

The Reveal will be posted on Friday, November 30.

Edited by Hot Ptah

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Speaking of not being able to identify things from your own collection, as played by your friends...

Track 9 is the first tune here: http://www.alaturkam...m/cd_store.html

Recommended music from the exotic shores of Kansas City. Too bad this band seems to be on hiatus.

That is correct! I overheard this CD in Prospero's Books in Kansas City, a small, independently owned used book store, and asked the owner if I could buy his copy. He had a whole stack of them behind the counter.

Egad!!! Don't ya just love stumbling over stuff like this? I love it when that happens!!!

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Speaking of not being able to identify things from your own collection, as played by your friends...

Track 9 is the first tune here: http://www.alaturkam...m/cd_store.html

Recommended music from the exotic shores of Kansas City. Too bad this band seems to be on hiatus.

That is correct! I overheard this CD in Prospero's Books in Kansas City, a small, independently owned used book store, and asked the owner if I could buy his copy. He had a whole stack of them behind the counter.

Egad!!! Don't ya just love stumbling over stuff like this? I love it when that happens!!!

I do love situations like that. If there are no more physical music and book stores some day, there will be no way for things like that to happen

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Speaking of not being able to identify things from your own collection, as played by your friends...

Track 9 is the first tune here: http://www.alaturkam...m/cd_store.html

Recommended music from the exotic shores of Kansas City. Too bad this band seems to be on hiatus.

That is correct! I overheard this CD in Prospero's Books in Kansas City, a small, independently owned used book store, and asked the owner if I could buy his copy. He had a whole stack of them behind the counter.

Egad!!! Don't ya just love stumbling over stuff like this? I love it when that happens!!!

I do love situations like that. If there are no more physical music and book stores some day, there will be no way for things like that to happen

Yes there will - the entire world will take up Blindfold tests!!!!!

I hope Jim has this patented :D

MG

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HINTS

Here are some hints for the remaining songs which have not been identified:

4. One of the musicians who does not solo here has become a prolific bandleader.

5. The leader has become a powerful figure in the music industry. One of the soloists has become a respected bandleader and composer.

6. The leader is not the trumpet soloist. The trumpet soloist is a current well known jazz artist..

7. The tenor saxophonist is better known for a different style of playing.

8. Roy Eldridge is on this song but is not the leader of the date. The leader is best known as a composer.

10. As at least two members have noted, this is a piano roll recording. The pianist is not a household name. probably not even in your household.

16. The cover art of the album from which this track comes, is about the least likely cover art to be associated with this song.

The following musicians are not on any of these songs: Cecil Taylor, Harry James, George Shearing, Stanley Clarke, John McLaughlin, Gato Barbieri, Jimmy Smith, Cal Tjader, Herbie Mann, Jabbo Smith, Otis Spann, Pete Cosey, Regina Carter, Peanuts Hucko, Joe Pass, Charles Gayle, Machito, Ornette Coleman, Miroslav Vitous.

Edited by Hot Ptah

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5. The leader has become a powerful figure in the music industry. One of the soloists has become a respected bandleader and composer.

I don't know how powerful Bob Belden actually is, but is he involved?

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5. The leader has become a powerful figure in the music industry. One of the soloists has become a respected bandleader and composer.

I don't know how powerful Bob Belden actually is, but is he involved?

I was going to say Bert Kaempfert :D

MG

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5. The leader has become a powerful figure in the music industry. One of the soloists has become a respected bandleader and composer.

I don't know how powerful Bob Belden actually is, but is he involved?

No.

5. The leader has become a powerful figure in the music industry. One of the soloists has become a respected bandleader and composer.

I don't know how powerful Bob Belden actually is, but is he involved?

I was going to say Bert Kaempfert :D

MG

Sorry, MG, Bert Kaempfert is not correct!!!

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