"Black Jazz" label

[JSngry]

To address the OP's concern - no, do not pursue Black Jazz sides through that site. I've heard enough anecdotal evidence from enough people over enough years for me to make a strong recommendation to seek the material from other sources, of which there have been many, old and new.

Couple that with the recent listing of the alleged master tapes on Craigslist, and a picture emerges of a business that for whatever reason(s) has not gained traction as a reliable direct outlet. Although, there was (still is?) an Amazon Marketplace Black Jazz store that people seemed to have success with.

As far as the sound, it vaires from session to session. Like Strata-East and many other musician-ran labels of the era, production was variable, probably due to a mixture of inexperience, financial limitations, and good old-fashioned not knowing any better. But I've not noticed any real loss of quality between original LPs & later CDs, if that's the concern.

Edited November 23, 2012 by JSngry

[robertoart]

Black Saint/Soul Note, Muse and Black Jazz, some of my favourite labels. Black Saint and Muse kept a lot of music out there when nobody else was doing it.

I was wary of the cheaper Black Jazz re-issues because I thought they might be similar to the 'Scorpio' Blue Note vinyl with regard to sound.

ie., might as well look for vinyl rips etc?

[JSngry]

Can't speak to the quality of the "popularly priced" LP reissues. I reflexively avoid "those type things".

As far as vinyl rips, though, there was one blog in paritcular that fully consumated its relationship with the Black Jazz catalog, if you know what I mean. Don't know if its still up or not. It was a good place to sort through everything before purchasing legit copies of various items, I'll say that.

[clifford_thornton]

The Calvin Keys Shawn-neeq was also recently reissued on LP by Tompkins Square.

Thoughts?

Well done reissue, strong record.

[JohnS]

Something of interest to those curious about the label

http://www.amazon.co...53745935&sr=1-1

Edited November 24, 2012 by JohnS

[romualdo]

To address the OP's concern - no, do not pursue Black Jazz sides through that site. I've heard enough anecdotal evidence from enough people over enough years for me to make a strong recommendation to seek the material from other sources, of which there have been many, old and new.

Couple that with the recent listing of the alleged master tapes on Craigslist, and a picture emerges of a business that for whatever reason(s) has not gained traction as a reliable direct outlet. Although, there was (still is?) an Amazon Marketplace Black Jazz store that people seemed to have success with.

As far as the sound, it vaires from session to session. Like Strata-East and many other musician-ran labels of the era, production was variable, probably due to a mixture of inexperience, financial limitations, and good old-fashioned not knowing any better. But I've not noticed any real loss of quality between original LPs & later CDs, if that's the concern.

thanks for the advice

here's the reply I just got back from "Black Jazz"

Hi Stephen how are you.

The music is transfered from the orginal master tapes.

I can make it possible to ship to you withought Jewel cases

how does $11.00 a cd sound?

Also the cd's on Snow Dog Records are not bootleggs. I licenced

a 300 unit minimum to Snow Dog

Thanks.

James/Black Jazz Records

Still sound sus?

[DMP]

Just picked up the Russell "New Directions" and the Calvin Keys- the Russell is pretty much as I remembered it, in the 3 Sounds vein - some pop tunes of the day and a couple hip tunes that hadn't been done to death. The Keys is new to me, it's okay, when it's good it's very good, but it's a mixed bag; I know it has a strong reputation among some, not sure I'm on board yet. But the 2 Rudolph Johnson's - don't miss them.

[JSngry]

To address the OP's concern - no, do not pursue Black Jazz sides through that site. I've heard enough anecdotal evidence from enough people over enough years for me to make a strong recommendation to seek the material from other sources, of which there have been many, old and new.

Couple that with the recent listing of the alleged master tapes on Craigslist, and a picture emerges of a business that for whatever reason(s) has not gained traction as a reliable direct outlet. Although, there was (still is?) an Amazon Marketplace Black Jazz store that people seemed to have success with.

As far as the sound, it vaires from session to session. Like Strata-East and many other musician-ran labels of the era, production was variable, probably due to a mixture of inexperience, financial limitations, and good old-fashioned not knowing any better. But I've not noticed any real loss of quality between original LPs & later CDs, if that's the concern.

thanks for the advice

here's the reply I just got back from "Black Jazz"

Hi Stephen how are you.

The music is transfered from the orginal master tapes.

I can make it possible to ship to you withought Jewel cases

how does $11.00 a cd sound?

Also the cd's on Snow Dog Records are not bootleggs. I licenced

a 300 unit minimum to Snow Dog

Thanks.

James/Black Jazz Records

Still sound sus?

$11 for discs w/o cases (but with the rest of the packaging?)...not what I'd go for, but you did get a response and it does seem legit enough...but still, me, I'd go for the Snow Dogs from Dusty Groove or some other "known quantity". Seems like a sure thing going that route.

[Teasing the Korean]

How interesting that Black Jazz was co-founded by Dick Schory, who is best known for his space-age-bachelor-pad-era percussion albums on RCA.

[JSngry]

That explains why Black Jazz ended up with Ovation towards the end of its run.

[romualdo]

To address the OP's concern - no, do not pursue Black Jazz sides through that site. I've heard enough anecdotal evidence from enough people over enough years for me to make a strong recommendation to seek the material from other sources, of which there have been many, old and new.

Couple that with the recent listing of the alleged master tapes on Craigslist, and a picture emerges of a business that for whatever reason(s) has not gained traction as a reliable direct outlet. Although, there was (still is?) an Amazon Marketplace Black Jazz store that people seemed to have success with.

As far as the sound, it vaires from session to session. Like Strata-East and many other musician-ran labels of the era, production was variable, probably due to a mixture of inexperience, financial limitations, and good old-fashioned not knowing any better. But I've not noticed any real loss of quality between original LPs & later CDs, if that's the concern.

thanks for the advice

here's the reply I just got back from "Black Jazz"

Hi Stephen how are you.

The music is transfered from the orginal master tapes.

I can make it possible to ship to you withought Jewel cases

how does $11.00 a cd sound?

Also the cd's on Snow Dog Records are not bootleggs. I licenced

a 300 unit minimum to Snow Dog

Thanks.

James/Black Jazz Records

Still sound sus?

$11 for discs w/o cases (but with the rest of the packaging?)...not what I'd go for, but you did get a response and it does seem legit enough...but still, me, I'd go for the Snow Dogs from Dusty Groove or some other "known quantity". Seems like a sure thing going that route.

that includes shipping to far away Australia (I usually ask for removal of jewel cases - takes the load of the shipping charge - so the price sounds good to me)

[clifford_thornton]

The Henry Franklin and Walter Bishop, Jr. sessions are the ones I return to the most. I've felt that the catalog is full of enjoyable releases - nothing brain-melting, but always worth investigating at a price that's not through the roof.

Can't speak for dealing directly because I've never had the experience, but going the Dusty Groove route isn't a bad idea. They're legit and they don't tend to knowingly sell bootlegs or sketchy releases.

[ValerieB]

Something of interest to those curious about the label

http://www.amazon.co...53745935&sr=1-1

WOW!! very interesting. and i'll bet you anything that no royalties are being paid to any of these artists!!!

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

have only lp on this label, it is so paper thin it makes rca dynaflex seem like 180g. i have no logical explination to why it hasnt warped into the shape of a taco

Edited November 25, 2012 by chewy

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

have only lp on this label, it is so paper thin it makes rca dynaflex seem like 180g. i have no logical explination to why it hasnt warped into the shape of a taco

Yeah, some are like that, some aren't.

MG

[JSngry]

Something of interest to those curious about the label

http://www.amazon.co...53745935&sr=1-1

WOW!! very interesting. and i'll bet you anything that no royalties are being paid to any of these artists!!!

That's part of the Snow Dog series out of Japan, so the material itself has been licensed from the owners. If royalties are not being paid to the artists, it wouldn't be Snow Dog's fault.

[Jay]

Thanks for the recommendations on this thread, despite the fact that it was derailed in Hoffman-like fashion. Anyway, this is one of those labels I have never gotten around to for the most part and am especially interested in the Rudolph Johnsons (I have heard the Carns and they never did anything for me).

Edited December 5, 2012 by Jay

[StarThrower]

My local record store is stocking several titles. I picked up The Skipper by Henry Franklin, and Infant Eyes by Doug Carn.

Both great records that I am enjoying very much.

[felser]

Black Saint/Soul Note, Muse and Black Jazz, some of my favourite labels. Black Saint and Muse kept a lot of music out there when nobody else was doing it.

I'm with you fully on this. A lot of Muse sessions clearly suffered from lack of rehearsal time, and could have/should have been done a lot better (a number of Clifford Jordan and Carlos Garnett sessions come immediately to mind), but there was a lot that was not going to get recorded at all if it was not recorded by Muse, and some of their stuff is classic (Roy Brooks 'The Free Slave', a couple of those Carlos Garnett albums, Woody Shaw 'Live at Berliner Jazztage', and there are others). Much of the Black Saint catalog is reasonably unlistenable to me, but what about that first Billy Harper album the label was named for? And no viable American companies were knocking down the doors to record him. Black Jazz made those incredible Doug and Jean Carn albums, and I can't begin to describe what those albums have added to my life over the past four decades. So I am incredibly thankful for those labels, for Strata East, Tribe, Horo, the whole scene.

Edited December 21, 2012 by felser

[robertoart]

Black Saint/Soul Note, Muse and Black Jazz, some of my favourite labels. Black Saint and Muse kept a lot of music out there when nobody else was doing it.

I'm with you fully on this. A lot of Muse sessions clearly suffered from lack of rehearsal time, and could have/should have been done a lot better (a number of Clifford Jordan and Carlos Garnett sessions come immediately to mind), but there was a lot that was not going to get recorded at all if it was not recorded by Muse, and some of their stuff is classic (Roy Brooks 'The Free Slave', a couple of those Carlos Garnett albums, Woody Shaw 'Live at Berliner Jazztage', and there are others). Much of the Black Saint catalog is reasonably unlistenable to me, but what about that first Billy Harper album the label was named for? And no viable American companies were knocking down the doors to record him. Black Jazz made those incredible Doug and Jean Carn albums, and I can't begin to describe what those albums have added to my life over the past four decades. So I am incredibly thankful for those labels, for Strata East, Tribe, Horo, the whole scene.

Yep. And for anyone not able to experience the music live - or as it unfolded on the bandstand - these labels kept the story going, although, I suppose, some will gladly argue these artists were propped up by a 'false qualitative economy' and championed by 'ideological critics'.

In Australia, at the time, BS/SN and Muse had good distribution (mostly), so a visit to certain record stores meant you could keep learning and appreciating where the music was at and going. This was especially important in an era where someone like Ornette was not releasing lot's of sessions, at least before and after the Caravan Of Dreams time anyway.

When a label like DIW began to record many of my favourite artists, it became much harder (and more expensive), to track things down.

Your post also reminds me how deep a lot of these catalogues go, and how much more great music I've yet to get to.

So from a pre-digital age, it all represents a significant historical archive now.

Edited December 22, 2012 by freelancer

[JSngry]

The music wants to know where you're going, and will follow you around until the athletes come home and have their afternoon Christmas service, after which new productions are released in appropriate colors., and then the rules are fixed. Life can resume.

[robertoart]

The music wants to know where you're going, and will follow you around until the athletes come home and have their afternoon Christmas service, after which new productions are released in appropriate colors., and then the rules are fixed. Life can resume.

I can tell you that when I was trying to get my hands on those DIW titles in 90,91,92......they weren't following me around. And if they were, they didn't want to make themselves known.

[JSngry]

Them was the Ninjas. They see you, you don't see them.Not unless and until.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

The music wants to know where you're going, and will follow you around until the athletes come home and have their afternoon Christmas service, after which new productions are released in appropriate colors., and then the rules are fixed. Life can resume.

I can tell you that when I was trying to get my hands on those DIW titles in 90,91,92......they weren't following me around. And if they were, they didn't want to make themselves known.

Ah well - they were around in force in 2002, at the HQ of Disc Union, in Tokyo. The entire ground floor was DIW. (I am pretty sure Disc Union owned DIW )

MG

[robertoart]

i think JSngry knows DIW cds at the beginning of the digital age (outside Japan) were much like 'Cheekbone' magazine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWD_hfacU8o

Edited December 27, 2012 by freelancer