Ralph Vaughan Williams

[Jim Alfredson]

Curious as to the best recordings of his symphonies, specifically No. 5.

Thanks.

[A Lark Ascending]

Possibly my favourite piece of music.

I've lived with these two since the 70s:

I'm sure there are many versions recorded since that are just as good and in better sound. The only one I know is Vernon Handley's which I never got on with - recorded in the 80s during the early days of digital recording, it always sounded distant to me.

The Boult has the advantage of another incandescent RVW symphony. It can be obtained in an inexpensive box that has all the symphonies plus lots of other pieces including Boult's wonderful recordings of things like 'The Lark Ascending', 'Serenade to Music' etc.

[Though many RVW buffs prefer his 1940s/50s recordings, available via Decca (corrected in the light of David's post below)]

You might find this analysis interesting:

http://www.classical...ks/v-w/v-w5.php

This overview from a UK classical record shop surveys some BBC and Penguin first choices:

http://www.prestocla...No-5-in-D-major

Edited December 27, 2012 by A Lark Ascending

[Jim Alfredson]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Do you happen to know how the EMI boxset fares?

http://www.amazon.com/Vaughan-Williams-The-Collectors-Edition/dp/B00156ZWV0

[A Lark Ascending]

Unless you are intending to go for total immersion, it looks a bit excessive. A lot of RVW can sound quite gallumphing to the non-obsessive. The choral pieces in particular can take some time to adjust to.

The symphonies in that box seem to be mainly the Vernon Handley versions - they are well regarded. There's a detailed review here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/Nov10/RVW_collector_2066362.htm

If you are not that familiar with RVW hear Symphony 3 and 5 for the 'pastoral' angle, then 4 and 6 for the more disturbed side. And this disc (which is part of the blue Boult box) is glorious:

If you can get access to a copy, this relatively recent film biography is beautiful:

[Daniel A]

The Pastoral symphony is wonderful (I have the Boult EMI recording mentioned above).

[A Lark Ascending]

Don't be frightened by the 'Pastoral' in the title - it actually relates to his experiences as an ambulance man in World War I. The slow movement is an eerie piece that evokes a Somme like landscape, complete with a trumpet playing a heart-stopping melody alluding to a military bugle.

[David Ayers]

It is probably a good idea to hear the first Boults, mainly mono, now all on Decca, then take it from there. Like Bev I'm not keen on the Handley just as recordings - distant and grainy. I only heard one of the Hickox on Chandos (a series that was never completed). That was the London, only recording of the original version, and it is brilliantly shaped, played and recorded - a must - other Hickox's got mixed reviews but I bet that his 5 is pretty attractive... I've dabbled in many other cycles but at the point of making a recommendation I have to say Boult. Others prefer the stereo Boults on EMI but I know those less well. I came to the Decca Boults only when the box set emerged and had heard many other versions first, so it's not like I am recommending just my old favorite/first love/ etc

[David Ayers]

I should say there are - as might be expected - some sound problems with the first Boult, but in fact most come across pretty vividly.

[J.A.W.]

It is probably a good idea to hear the first Boults, mainly mono, now all on Decca, then take it from there.

Recording details: symphonies 1-7 were recorded in 1952-1953 and are mono, the 8th was recorded in 1956 and is stereo; all were recorded with the composer present. The 9th was recorded on the day Vaughan Williams died, August 26, 1958, and is mono. No.8 was recorded for Everest, the others for Decca.

Edited December 27, 2012 by J.A.W.

[MomsMobley]

Jim, if you can afford it, ABSOLUTELY GET THAT BOX... it's ** thee ** single greatest and most staggering of all EMI budget sets; RVW was a genius (look up Nicolas Slominsky's RVW entry in Baker's Biographical Dictionary of Musicians if you doubt this), did great work in a wide variety of forms, and you'll rarely get better than what's there (though you'll want to supplement it for favorite pieces), forget more for less.

NOTE: that box gets you what's arguably (but it's a v. strong argument) of all symphony cycles, that of the late great Vernon Handley.

Best book on RVW's music is still that by Michael Kennedy (look for a used copy of the second edition)--

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/0198163304

Boult 2 (EMI) is standard/standby but Boult I (Decca) is kinda dull and certainly not interesting enough to make up for the less than great sonics.

You know who's a suprisingly excellent conductor of RVW? Andre Previn, no shit. He's recorded 5 twice, I believe, once as part of cycle on RCA, later with Teldec.

Leonard Slatkin also did an admirable, largely overlooked RVA cycle for RCA, as did Bernard Haitink for EMI; the last a bit of a ringer because Haitink was such continental Europe standby, it added patina of legitimacy to RVA for those who questions-- sometimes correctly-- Limey provincialism.

Symphony 8 (conducted by the brilliant Charles Munch)

Riders To The Sea (opera)

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Do you happen to know how the EMI boxset fares?

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/B00156ZWV0

Edited December 27, 2012 by MomsMobley

[David Ayers]

I heard Vernon Handley joking: 'I get invited by orchestras, all over the world, to conduct Prokofiev, Strauss, Stravinsky... but I make them all sound like Vaughan Williams!'

[alppila]

Definitely second the recommendations for the big EMI box (years of listening to grapple with there) and Tony Palmer's film.

[tonym]

A few years back i plumped for the EMI Haitink box (because of the 'extras' i suppose). I haven't been disappointed but then again don't listen to RVW as much as others.

When i do, it's invariably the last symphony that i put on. So dark.

Also, the recentish Piano Concerto release on Naxos is amazing.

[A Lark Ascending]

I have the Haitink No. 7 which is good. I experimented with quite a few in the 80s when I was wanting to replace my LPs but ended up going back to Boult. Not because I felt he was 'better', I just found the sound of those early CDs (Handley's as well) a bit cold and distant. Probably would not be noticed by anyone starting with them. Probably just my addled brain.

I'm not familiar with the Piano Concerto - I have the Two Piano version. Just giving it another listen as it's never grabbed me before. Wass (on Naxos) is a real hero; championing a lot of English music. Must try that one. I notice it includes 'The Wasps' suite - the overture has one of those great, soaring RVW melodies.

Don't miss RVW's chamber music - there are a couple of excellent sets on Hyperion. Music I always crack open at the first sign of spring. All the fingerprints are there - mainly from the first half of his career, though there are some bleaker later pieces (fitting in with the 9th Symph).

Another one not to overlook is 'Flos Campi' - a piece for orchestra and viola with strange, wordless vocals. Haunting.

Edited December 30, 2012 by A Lark Ascending

[tonym]

Yes. Def worth a try. To my simple ears it does everything a piano concerto ought to do. Plus the Naxos recordings of late are lush, crisp and vibrant.

[A Lark Ascending]

Naxos have put out some marvellous English discs.

You can walk into a wonderful world just following the Maggini Quartet on Naxos.

[tonym]

Yes indeed, and although I don't want to hijack the thread, a whole new world of English music has opened up before me; possibly initiated by my exposure to RVW.

[Jim Alfredson]

I really appreciate all the suggestions. When funds allow, I will grab the EMI box.

[J.A.W.]

Like Bev I'm not keen on the Handley just as recordings - distant and grainy. I only heard one of the Hickox on Chandos (a series that was never completed). That was the London, only recording of the original version, and it is brilliantly shaped, played and recorded - a must - other Hickox's got mixed reviews but I bet that his 5 is pretty attractive...

I've read mixed reviews of the various Hickox readings over the years. For instance, the Penguin Guides I have give his Symphonies Nos.4 and 5 the highest ratings (rosettes), while others have problems with both the interpretations and the seemingly less than good Chandos recordings, which are described as being bright/harsh/sharp and lacking bass. The Penguin Guide and a trusted Dutch reviewer also give the Handley cycle good reviews, but others are not so positive there either.

[edit]

I checked various internet stores and found that the Hickox discs are still full price and therefore not very attractive for someone who is interested in comparing various interpretations. It'd be nice if Chandos would reissue the symphonies in a bargain-priced box, as far as I'm concerned without the extras that are on the individual discs.

Edited December 31, 2012 by J.A.W.

[David Ayers]

Like Bev I'm not keen on the Handley just as recordings - distant and grainy. I only heard one of the Hickox on Chandos (a series that was never completed). That was the London, only recording of the original version, and it is brilliantly shaped, played and recorded - a must - other Hickox's got mixed reviews but I bet that his 5 is pretty attractive...

[...]

I checked various internet stores and found that the Hickox discs are still full price and therefore not very attractive for someone who is interested in comparing various interpretations. It'd be nice if Chandos would reissue the symphonies in a bargain-priced box, as far as I'm concerned without the extras that are on the individual discs.

Well if the Jarvi Shostakovich is anything to go by they'll keep this as individual disks forever! That cycle was never completed either but individual disks were favorites with reviewers so stayed as single disks. And as I'm sure you know they still are, even though there are many cheaper alternatives.

[A Lark Ascending]

There is actually a collection of the Hickox RVW symphonies on Chandos - but you can only get it as a USB stick! Will cost you £50. Another one of those batty record company ideas.

I have a few of the 'other' pieces from the series like the Norfolk Rhapsody No. 2 that I downloaded separately. As well as doing the symphonies, Hickox ranged much further. It was very sad to lose both him and Vernon Handley around the same time - both champions of the British repertoire. I saw him do the Sea Symphony in Truro Cathedral not long before his death; not my favourite RVW by a long chalk, but a powerful performance. His set of Frank Bridge discs is marvellous - possibly the most comprehensive attempt at the orchestral music, building on what Lyrita did in the 70s.

As far as sound quality goes, even a cloth-eared non-audiophile like me had problems with Chandos in the 80s (that recorded in an aircraft hanger feel). But I've not noticed any problems with more recent recordings.

On RVW himself. What really strikes me about him is how different his music sounds to those around him. With Parry, Stanford, Elgar, early Bridge, early Holst you hear the Wagner and/or Brahms influence constantly. RVW just seemed to step into another world - the influence of folk song, Tudor music, Ravel? Who knows? Of course that distinctive approach was picked up on very quickly by others leading to that whole 'English' sound of the early to mid-20thC.

Edited December 31, 2012 by A Lark Ascending