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BFT 106 discussion thread


Big Al

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The download has been sent out. Let the discussion begin!

This was a pretty tough one to put together, despite the fact that I've been jotting down ideas for the last six months. I just haven't bought much music at all since my last BFT, and certainly nothing that would challenge anyone (as far as I was concerned). Funny thing is, as it was slowly coming together, a few themes started popping up here and there; whether or not they'll make sense to anyone besides me will be one of life's great (or not-so-great) mysteries, I s'pose.

At the last minute, I decided this should be experienced like a double-album, so I sequenced the songs to be listened in that way. To that end, I titled each track "Side #, track #" in hopes that your player will recognize the names.

There is a joke behind the "artist name" for each track, and if your player shows the album art I put together for this BFT, you may figure out that joke as well. For that matter, the album art has its own reason for existing, so add to the fun by trying to figure THAT out as well!

And yes, at some point this month I'll explain the whole "daughter's wedding" thing that a few of you asked about in the "delay" thread!

Edited by Big Al
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First of all, I downloaded from the Mediafire link, and although I got the zany album artwork, I didn't get any tag info that identified the material (story of my life ;)).

1. This is a favorite of mine, and every time I hear it, I wonder why I don't play it more often. All three brothers on this track, which is a good thing when it happens! http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/window/media/page/0,,6103263-17659514,00.html

2. I don't know who this is (yet), but the guitarist's tone has got me sitting up and paying attention.

3. This one is leaving me a little cold. The main theme, with the unison line sounds a bit like it could have been a 70's tv theme (not that I recognize it).

4. Love the way the reeds and brass are arranged here, with rotation, overlapping, and nice tight harmonies.

5. Proud, graceful, dignified, lovely, soulful. No way to improve on this. I think I may own it, but I'm blanking. Need to ponder this…

6. Pretty sure I've never heard this before. Goes well with a cold, quiet, overcast day. Hmm… pretty Miles-ian sounding trumpet solo there. Hmm…

7. Just saw Carlos the other day. Not in person, on tv. He was in the "white-out" (white t-shirt giveaway) crowd at the Oracle arena for the Warriors' win over the Clippers. Anyway, very nice tune, simultaneously invigorating and relaxing. Nobody else sounds like Carlos.

8. See, they want you to think this song is about Colorado, but the trick is, it's really about Wyoming. I haven't heard this in ages (thank god). No no, just kidding. :) It's not something I'd listen to frequently, but it has that singing cowboy feel (or sing around the campfire feel) that takes me back to portions of my childhood. This is from one of the later (Verve) albums by this famous guitarist that played a self-designed Gibson guitar with his name on it. I forget who the singer was… I'll have to look it up.

9. Fantastic rhythm section. Not wild about the tune, but the groove can't be denied.

10. Wait- is this Dan Gould's BFT? :D At any rate, what's not to like? One thing I'm sure of- that's Kenny Burrell on the guitar.

11. I liked this in the opening minutes, but tired a bit as it went on. Great foundation, I'll say that.

12. Sonny Stitt?

13. Wow, that's as big a tone as I can recall hearing from an el-p. Maybe just the way it was recorded? No ideas on this.

14. Commmme and play… everything's- Ayyy-okayyy… Right?… No? Okay, then I dunno. The 12-string flat-top acoustic isn't really working for me, but it could just be me.

15. Well, this one's a gimme for me. I listened to this band constantly throughout the 70's, and saw them live a few times. "Way Back Home". The live version of this tune (recorded about a year later?) with the great band member intros at the beginning is the one that really gives me goosebumps to this day (40 years later). I'm tearing up just thinking about it, in fact.

16. If you listen closely, this one is about Wyoming also.

17. Bee-YOOTY-ful. Would that be Ben? I've never heard this one, afaik.

Okay, back to the top for me, and hopefully I'll come up with some more coherent thoughts.

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First of all, I downloaded from the Mediafire link, and although I got the zany album artwork, I didn't get any tag info that identified the material (story of my life ;)).

Mine too, in reverse! I figured you'd enjoy the album art! :)

1. This is a favorite of mine, and every time I hear it, I wonder why I don't play it more often. All three brothers on this track, which is a good thing when it happens! http://www.artistdir...7659514,00.html

Indeed it is, in both cases!

2. I don't know who this is (yet), but the guitarist's tone has got me sitting up and paying attention.

Glad you enjoyed this! He's one of the reasons this track is on here!

6. Pretty sure I've never heard this before. Goes well with a cold, quiet, overcast day. Hmm… pretty Miles-ian sounding trumpet solo there. Hmm…

YES! I was hoping someone would guess something along those lines!

7. Just saw Carlos the other day. Not in person, on tv. He was in the "white-out" (white t-shirt giveaway) crowd at the Oracle arena for the Warriors' win over the Clippers. Anyway, very nice tune, simultaneously invigorating and relaxing. Nobody else sounds like Carlos.

You got THAT right! Any guesses as to the backing band?

8. See, they want you to think this song is about Colorado, but the trick is, it's really about Wyoming.

Would you believe that when I told the Colorado tourist board that this song was what inspired me to visit them, that was their response as well? As I was leaving, I coulda swore I heard 'em say, "Whew! Dodged a bullet on that one!"

This is from one of the later (Verve) albums by this famous guitarist that played a self-designed Gibson guitar with his name on it. I forget who the singer was… I'll have to look it up.

Don't know that this was ever released on an album proper, but you're definitely correct about the guitarist. I kinda sorta figured you'd recognize him (who I notice you didn't identify, but I know how you think, and you know how I think, and since I know that you know how I know that you know how I think, you are clearly referring to a great guitarist who wrote a song covered by and made famous by The Ventures. Of course, I'm talking about Chet Atkins. ;) )

9. Fantastic rhythm section. Not wild about the tune, but the groove can't be denied.

Yyyyyyyyyyyyup!!!!

10. Wait- is this Dan Gould's BFT? :D At any rate, what's not to like? One thing I'm sure of- that's Kenny Burrell on the guitar.

It is indeed Burrell! The judges have ruled that an acceptable match, and now you can choose from one of our celebrities for the bonus match!

11. I liked this in the opening minutes, but tired a bit as it went on. Great foundation, I'll say that.

That was my first reaction as well, but after a few more listens it grew on me. Thankfully, it's not contagious.

12. Sonny Stitt?

Ohfercryinoutloud!!!! Can't I fool ANYONE besides myself??? :D

14. Commmme and play… everything's- Ayyy-okayyy… Right?…

See, THIS is why you & I have been such pals over the years, and why I miss our regular correspondences (correspondi?): you nailed the EXACT reason for this tracks inclusion here!

In other words: right!!!

15. Well, this one's a gimme for me. I listened to this band constantly throughout the 70's, and saw them live a few times. "Way Back Home". The live version of this tune (recorded about a year later?) with the great band member intros at the beginning is the one that really gives me goosebumps to this day (40 years later). I'm tearing up just thinking about it, in fact.

A live recording of this? PLEASE do tell!!!

16. If you listen closely, this one is about Wyoming also.

Correct again, but then again what do I know? The Colorado tourism board wasn't happy to see me again, that's for sure!

17. Bee-YOOTY-ful. Would that be Ben? I've never heard this one, afaik.

Indeed that would! To paraphrase you, "Nobody else sounds like Ben!"

Okay, back to the top for me, and hopefully I'll come up with some more coherent thoughts.

That would be groovy!

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7. Just saw Carlos the other day. Not in person, on tv. He was in the "white-out" (white t-shirt giveaway) crowd at the Oracle arena for the Warriors' win over the Clippers. Anyway, very nice tune, simultaneously invigorating and relaxing. Nobody else sounds like Carlos.

You got THAT right! Any guesses as to the backing band?

Not as of yet, but I'm in a somber mood... the Warriors just played the Clippers again, and got destroyed.

8. See, they want you to think this song is about Colorado, but the trick is, it's really about Wyoming.

Would you believe that when I told the Colorado tourist board that this song was what inspired me to visit them, that was their response as well? As I was leaving, I coulda swore I heard 'em say, "Whew! Dodged a bullet on that one!"

This is from one of the later (Verve) albums by this famous guitarist that played a self-designed Gibson guitar with his name on it. I forget who the singer was… I'll have to look it up.

Don't know that this was ever released on an album proper, but you're definitely correct about the guitarist. I kinda sorta figured you'd recognize him (who I notice you didn't identify, but I know how you think, and you know how I think, and since I know that you know how I know that you know how I think, you are clearly referring to a great guitarist who wrote a song covered by and made famous by The Ventures. Of course, I'm talking about Chet Atkins. ;) )

Hey, Chet Atkins had Gibson make him his own model too. Bonus points for you!

12. Sonny Stitt?

Ohfercryinoutloud!!!! Can't I fool ANYONE besides myself??? :D

Not when I come up with a lucky guess. :)

14. Commmme and play… everything's- Ayyy-okayyy… Right?…

See, THIS is why you & I have been such pals over the years, and why I miss our regular correspondences (correspondi?): you nailed the EXACT reason for this tracks inclusion here!

In other words: right!!!

I'll have to remember to thank my kids.

15. Well, this one's a gimme for me. I listened to this band constantly throughout the 70's, and saw them live a few times. "Way Back Home". The live version of this tune (recorded about a year later?) with the great band member intros at the beginning is the one that really gives me goosebumps to this day (40 years later). I'm tearing up just thinking about it, in fact.

A live recording of this? PLEASE do tell!!!

I suspect you're just forgetting about this one: http://www.musicstack.com/item/119299380

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BFT106

Side 1 #1 MJQ? Yes, surely. Not one I’ve heard before. Oh, is there a guitar in this somewhere? Oh yes, now he’s started soloing. So it AIN’T the MJQ. But it’s the MJQ with a guitarist who isn’t Laurindo Almeida. No, it’s Milt with some other geezers, who shall be nameless. Though the pianner player sometimes sounds like John Lewis and sometimes doesn’t. The guitarist plays a bit too clangy a sound for my liking, but otherwise this is nice. Second thoughts, Montgomery Brothers or Mastersounds. But I always associate Wes with a smoother style than this (perhaps because I have a lot of his Verve and CTI albums :))

Side 1 #2 Bossa nova a la TTK, not a la Seeline. I’m sure I almost recognise the tenor player as being one I don’t listen to much. Ditto the guitarist. I keep wanting to say the tenor player is Harold Land, but my better judgement won’t let me :) There’s a vibes player in this who’s doing hardly anything at all.

Side 1 #3 Oh, and another vibes player. With flute and trombone. Now that ought to be a dead giveaway – vibes, flute and trombone? I really like the trombonist. And, when they loosen up, I like the band. But when they tighten up into that childlike rhythm that doesn’t swing even as much as a roundabout, which isn’t much, I purse my lips.

Side 1 #4 So, is there a vibes player on this? Yes. And I know this one, I think. No I don’t but that sound to start off with is very familiar, kinda Dukish (Pearson, that is). The whole thing sounds like a Pearson job. And the vibes player surely is Booby.

Well, putting the dog to bed now, at the end of side 1. Side 2 will no doubt feature organists from Arkansas.

Side 2 #1 Oh, Mediafire told me this was here somewhere, but I’ve got it anyway. It’s ‘New Delhi’ by James Clay, of course. And there’s Vic Feldman on vibes on it. Dunno which take it is :D

Side 2 #2 A vibes player on this too? Not yet :) The pianist sounds a bit like Jack Wilson. But I don’t get the band. There are things in there that sound like Gerald Wilson but, overall, it’s not a GW job. Actually, the trumpet player reminds me of GW. And the alto player is reminiscent of Anthony Ortega. But it’s still not a GW job. I give up. Nice work, though. I’d LIKE it to be Gerald Wilson with a smallish band.

Side 2 #3 Oh, I know this guitarist, I think. The soprano sax is a bit familiar, too. Is the guitarist Orhan Demir? I think I recognise the bass player – some Englishman called Holland. So it surely can’t be Orhan Demir. This is very nice.

Side 2 #4 Bing? ‘Colorado’. No, it’s not Bing. But there’s a vibes player in there :D Actually, the singer seems a bit on the elderly side, so it could be Bing. Nice guitarist who is probably very familiar in a jazz framework.

Side 3 #1 Latin groove; very nice. I really like the trumpet solo; very simple, like Melvin Lastie’s work. The song appears to be a Latinisation of Jr Walker’s ‘Shotgun’. I think Willie Bobo did a version of that. Lastie worked with him on one of his Verve LPs. Like that honking little tenor bit. Ace groove. Yes, this is from ‘Spanish grease’, and it IS Mel Lastie on cornet.

Side 3 #2 Oh, I know this one, surely. Or do I just know the intro? And Stanley. With Duke Pearson, undoubtedly. But I find I don’t know this, unless it’s from ‘Return of the prodigal son’ or ‘Bluish bag’, neither of which I’ve played enough to remember note for note. Blue Mitchell on trumpet. Oh Gawd a guitarist! Fuck, it’s Grant Green! What the bleeding hell IS this? Well, it ain’t from either of those Turrentine albums. Is this a bonus track off the ‘Rough n tumble’ session that I haven’t got and don’t know about? There’s nothing in the Grant Green discography to support this, except ‘Rough n tumble’ and no bonus cuts on that. I don’t get it.

Side 3 #3 Another Latin groove. I definitely HAVEN’T got this. Sounds as if it ought to be Ray Bryant. And ought to be in my collection.

Side 3 #4 Sinny Stott, I’ll be danged. Not one I know, but I’ve got about 80 Stott albums, so maybe I have it somewhere. But I think I’d remember this; the rhythm section, particularly the drummer, isn’t quite right with Sonny in some way, though they’re fine when Sonny drops out for the piano solo. This isn’t really Latin but the drummer seems to be coming from there, in some way.

Bedtime for me, now, at the end of side 3.

Side 4 #1 Electric piano and another Latin groove. The pianist doesn’t seem to be saying much, I think I’d rather hear him on real piano, but the cowbell player is really grooving nicely. Oh, there’s an organ player in this. And I bet it’s Frank Anderson.

Side 4 #2 Intro to ‘Bread & butter’ (or ‘High heel sneakers’). Nice growly trombone, to start with, then he gets a bit bland. He’s probably a modernist who was encouraged by the producer to do something commercial, at least to start his solo. Good hotel foyer music.

Side 4 #3 Oh, ‘Way back home’; I do love simple stuff. So who’s this. There’s an alto player who sounds like Hank Crawford in there, but this ain’t Hank’s version of the tune and I can’t find that he was a sideman on anyone else’s version. So I don’t know what it is. But it’s lurvely.

‘Course, it could be the original by the JCs, which for some reason I never bought (from ‘Old socks, something something’) but it doesn’t sound like Wilton Felder on sax and the band’s too big. But it’s apparently the right length.

Side 4 #4 Bop alto. With guitar interweaving. Don’t know any of these players. Sound like recent guys doing Tristano. Good thing it’s only two and a half minutes.

Side 4 #5 Those lovely whispering ends to the lines put me in mind of Ben Webster, but I don’t think it’s him; I don’t think this tune is the sort of ballad he’d do; it’s not positive enough. But it does sound like him. Could be Harold Ashby. Towards the end, it does sound more like Ben. Very, very, nice, whoever it is.

Anyway, this is mostly extremely nice music I’ve liked a lot. And some cuts I’m dying to find out about. (No Christmas songs, though :D) Can I hang on until the end of the month?

Thanks Al.

MG

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15. Well, this one's a gimme for me. I listened to this band constantly throughout the 70's, and saw them live a few times. "Way Back Home". The live version of this tune (recorded about a year later?) with the great band member intros at the beginning is the one that really gives me goosebumps to this day (40 years later). I'm tearing up just thinking about it, in fact.

A live recording of this? PLEASE do tell!!!

I suspect you're just forgetting about this one: http://www.musicstac.../item/119299380

That's the version I've got. And 'Hard times' is wonderful, too. Well, the whole album is excellent, if not as much of a force of nature as their Lighthouse albums.

MG

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Just started listening to these cuts, probably won't have time to post until the weekend.

But - this is probably the first BFT with a Domestic Terrorist Group's anthem on it, so...is it safe to even have this thing?

Tanya, can you hear me? Do you need socks? Shoes? A new name?

Cinque.

(you're welcome)

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Honest first impressions, posted without reading other discussion:

1 - They do everything "right",so I guess I should like this more than I

do. Sort of just pleasantly fades into the background for me. Expertly

played, but in a very predicatable, business-like manner to me.

2 - Same response as above. I admire the tone and abilities of the tenor

player but he doesn't grab me, and the main guy I normally had that

response to was Michael Brecker, so I'm going to guess it's him. This BFT

reminded me that a fair part of why I don't like newer mainstream stuff is

because the rhythm sections play differently than they did in the 50's'-

60's,and this is a good example of that. The drummer is really boring to

me on this, even though he's likely a "name" guy, and the bass player is

sort of all over the place rather than laying down a pulse that I can

connenct to. Another thing that works against me for these first two is

that they use those sort of samba-ish rhythms that I only sort-of take to.

3 - Reminds me of those weird Walter Wanderley 60's Verve albums,

especially that strange lead instrument. Again, not a rhythm I relate to

particularly well. This one has a pretty cool sense of humor.

4 - ZZZZZZZZ. Nothing "wrong" with it, but it just feels so "by the

numbers".

Thus completes the Samba side of the BFT.

5 - This is more up my alley. Like what the rhythm section is doing.

Vibes player sounds like Milt Jackson, but this is too "new" to be one of

the things he did with Frank Wess in the 50's. Is this one of the ones

with Jimmy Heath on Pablo in the 80's? A Cedar Walton compostion with him

on piano?

6 - I like this a LOT, has such a nice 70's spritual groove to it. This is

the sort of think I do a lot of listening to. None of the individual

players jump out at me for distinctive style, but they do their jobs well,

especially the pianist. This is the first one I'm going to go look into

acquiring if I don't already have it. Reminds me of some of the stuff that

came out on Black Jazz or Strata East, or that Harry Whitaker album.

7 - Carlos Santana, of course, and I was a fan back in the day, until he

became so "Smooth" c/o Clive Davis. "Gardenia" from 'The Swing of

Delight', the album he did with Shorter/Hancock et al. That one was a nice

album, but a relative disappointment given the personnel. I like Carlos a

lot on this cut, but the sax leaves me cold. I have not been a fan of

Shorter's post-Miles playing, and really best like him with the Jazz

Messengers.

8 - "Land of the Velvet Hills" by JOhnny Smith. Jimmy Atkins on vocal.

That's perverse, Big Al!

9 - Time and place. Probably mid-60's, probably Verve records. Conversely

to cut 1, I like this more than I should. It's a lot of fun, and the

guitar parts smoke. From the words, I guess it's a cover of Jr. Walker's

"Shotgun", but they've totally left behind the tune and changed the groove.

10 - Time and place. Probably 60's, probably Atlantic records. Surely the

tenor player's album. Fathead Newman? Doing what he does, doing it well

like he does. Works for me, YMMV, but hopefully not too much. And you

just don't get good boogaloos anymore.

11 - The pianist's album. Sounds like something from Herbie Hancock's

"Inventions and Dimensions" album, but it isn't, and certainly sounds like

Willie Bobo,but I can't place it. I do like it.

12 - Right in my sweet spot. Something I surely have, by a tenor player I

have dozens of cD's by, but I can't place the song and hesitate to guess at

the player (maybe Lockjaw Davis?). Too much wonderful music, too little

time. I could spend a lot of decades listening to this sort of thing.

13 - Gotta be Weather Report or a reasonable facsimile thereof. EP sure

sounds like Joe Zawinul to me, gotta think it's Weather Report. I like it.

The lack of synths and the solid bottom of the bass indicate that it would

be pre_Jaco, which is a good thing to me. Whoever/whatever/whenever it is,

it's good.

14 - Blecch. My first thought was Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass, but

it's probably something like one of those early A&M/Creed Taylor Nat

Adderley albums, before Don Sebesky got his footing and made those

beautiful CTI albums. Really reall dislike that style of trombone playing,

though I know others here are fond of it. No doubt has "historical

significance", but still...

15 - Marginally better than 14, but still not something I'd ever want to

listen to again. Alto player's album. Hank Crawford? Never have quite

"gotten" him, even though I own some Atlantic and CTI stuff by him.

16 - Has to be Lennie Tristano with Lee Konitz, Warne Marsh, and Billy

Bauer. Works OK for me, but it's cold. and George Russell and Cecil Taylor

were certanily paying attention. I own it, I play it sometimes, I admire

it. I don't love it.

17 - Not cold. Vibrato says Coleman Hawkins. Again, something I admire

more than I like, something I no doubt own, and listen to once in a blue

moon.

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Ok, I have time to do Disc Two right now, just because I have more ready IDs....excuse the "jumping ahead" of response.

DISC TWO

TRACK ONE - "Shotgun" by Willie Bobo. It's got a good beat and I would dance to it if I could dance. Haven't picked up this one yet, but once they got to the lyric, it was pretty easy to identify. For some reason, this arrangement puts me in mind of Woody Herman! Is this that Kenny Rogers guy on tenor again?

TRACK TWO - Stanley Turrnetine, Donald Byrd, & Kenny Burrell, possibly Herbie Hancock, that's all I can tell (and that's enough to know). Don't know this particular album...with that lineup, you'd think Blue Note, but it's not anything I know. Good stuff, not great but good, stick-to-you-ribs meat-and-potatoes jazz.

TRACK THREE - No idea, seems slightly generic but still grooves. I'd not necessarily ask to hear it, but wouldn't change the dial if it cam on, either. Like all the percussion except the vibra-slap. Do like the (electric) bass playing, although that should have been pulled up in the mix, and the vibra-slap pulled down. Really liking the conguero, though. Nice timbral variety, very musical (whatever that means...).

TRACK FOUR - Sonny Stitt playing some blues. If I had a dollar for every time Sonny Stitt played some blues, I'd be rich, to say nothing of what Sonny Stitt would be if he had a dollar for every time he played some blues...but alas, life is not fair. I'm going to guess that this is later period Stitt, something from the 70s? Barry Harris on piano, maybe. Nice rhythm section, more interesting than Stitt, actually, at least to me. This is one of those solos of his where the beginning of every chorus could be a head, and at some point before or after probably was. They weren't all like that, thank god, but a lot of them where.

TRACK FIVE - Very, very VERY Zawinul-esque, right down to the "Gibraltar" cop for the head. I don't really like copying, but I do like Zawinul (a lot) so I'm going to take this more as inspiration rather than exploitation. And for no particular reason other than the electric piano sound and the fact that it changes to organ, I'm going to guess Claire Fischer. Truth be told, I'd rather hear Zawinul do something like this, but by the time whoever it was made this record, Zawinul had probably "moved on to other things" as they say, so somebody else had to do this. It's a nice cut in spite of the derivativeness.

TRACK SIX - Oh my...I think I hear Bob Brookmeyer...maybe now I better understand what drove him to drink so much when he did...

TRACK SEVEN - Old Socks, New Shoes, let's rob some banks and keep Patty in a closet. I love this tune and this version of it. Massive yet subtle overdubbing. People wonder why the SLA chose this as their anthem, hell, just listen to how those drums and that fat, open bottom keep intensifying with each chorus until it gets to be pure down home soul freaking MARCHING, not being stopped by anything or anybody...you gonna get somebody to do SOMETHING with all htat...too bad it was the SAL, but they weren't the only ones, I can tel you that. This thing just GRABBED HOLD of a lot of people, just because of all that, I know it did me...this was one of the first 5-10 jazz records I ever bought. Very much a mixed bag, but when it was good, it was REAL good.

BTW, this would be the last tune on the last album by The Jazz Crusaders, btw, on Chisa. The next one would be Pass The Plate by The Crusaders (also on Chisa) and for those who haven't checked, there's a few tunes that overlap between those two albums and the Hutcherson/Land San Francisco album on Blue Note. Needless to say, they are interpreded quite differently on each album.

TRACK EIGHT - Tristano, Konitz, Marsh, etc., Capitol, 1949. History. Don't know if it really counts as "free jazz", but it sure counts as displaying a willingness to improvise outside of song-from that was pretty radical for its time. Truthfully, I like all these guys bettr playing song-froms, but for them, this was a part of the process that enabled them to be as free with that material as they ended up being. Lesson being, perhaps, that "freedom" is not so much any particular specific action nearly as much as it is the state one is in when performing that action. Maybe.

TRACK NINE - Don't know the tune, but that's Ben. I'll never not like Ben.

Gotta listen to the first disc some more, some real stumpers there, as well as gotta get more time to post at this length, but hey, some good stuff here already. Thanks, al!

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That second cut on the first disc is the damndest thing I've heard in quite a while...all I can hear is some weird John Klemmer/Chico Hamilton/Albert Stinson thing that I know never happened, then I think it's maybe Joe Farrell and Elvin (because Chico would be totally relentless, and this drummer breaks it up every so often, and at one point he briefly hits his floor tom and it sounds like it's tuned like Elvin's), or maybe Harold Vick and somebody but no, it's not even that, then the guitarist sounds like either Tiny Grimes or Wally Richardson or Billy Butler or Gabor Szabo or Sonny Sharrock, a really quirky attack and intonation, and then the spring reverb on the amp starts making noise and then I just freakin' give up. Everybody sounds really familiar, but nothing adds up. It doesn't help that I've played it on three different sets of "speakers", none of them my main ones, and the tenor player's tone sounds just a little different on each. The slurry, full, fat upper register stuff sure sounds like John Klemmer, but if Klemmer ever made this record, I've never even come close to hearing it until now. And if he did, I want the rest of the record, like, yesterday - and I'm not a John Klemmer fan at all.

Whatever - that tune is hip as shit - a nine bar thing. That extra bar at the end makes everybody take their time from chorus to chorus, and everybody involved is playing in the moment every step of the way. Just a glorious thing.

Edited by JSngry
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That second cut on the first disc is the damndest thing I've heard in quite a while...all I can hear is some weird John Klemmer/Chico Hamilton/Albert Stinson thing that I know never happened, then I think it's maybe Joe Farrell and Elvin (because Chico would be totally relentless, and this drummer breaks it up every so often, and at one point he briefly hits his floor tom and it sounds like it's tuned like Elvin's), or maybe Harold Vick and somebody but no, it's not even that, then the guitarist sounds like either Tiny Grimes or Wally Richardson or Billy Butler or Gabor Szabo or Sonny Sharrock, a really quirky attack and intonation, and then the spring reverb on the amp starts making noise and then I just freakin' give up. Everybody sounds really familiar, but nothing adds up. It doesn't help that I've played it on three different sets of "speakers", none of them my main ones, and the tenor player's tone sounds just a little different on each. The slurry, full, fat upper register stuff sure sounds like John Klemmer, but if Klemmer ever made this record, I've never even come close to hearing it until now. And if he did, I want the rest of the record, like, yesterday - and I'm not a John Klemmer fan at all.

Whatever - that tune is hip as shit - a nine bar thing. That extra bar at the end makes everybody take their time from chorus to chorus, and everybody involved is playing in the moment every step of the way. Just a glorious thing.

Really interesting comments, and this track has been driving me nuts (if only for trying to I.D. the guitar player, and what instrument he's playing, etc). I totally agree that numerous names occur to me, but nothing seems to stick. I hear traces of Elek Bacsik at times too. Something european-sounding about this player. It sounds like a big guitar (like an 18" Gibson Super 400) at times with that beefy low end, but someone like Phil Upchurch sometimes got that big sound out of a smaller semi-hollow instrument (like an Epiphone Riviera) using different pickups. The pickups on this recording sound like either single-coil (like the classic Charlie Christian pickup seen in my avatar; or a Gibson P90; or a DeArmond floating pickup), or a mini-humbucker, as on the aforementioned Epi Riviera. Whoever and whatever it is, it's a pretty rare thing to achieve this kind of tone- big, fat, powerful and broad, yet airy, crisply defined, and with a shimmering sustain... just great stuff. That actual playing doesn't even impress me that much. It's good, but it's that tone that really draws my attention.

Edited by Jim R
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Really enjoying everyone's comments so far!

More later as time permits, but once again, this BFT has been a learning experience for me: I never knew the backstory to "Way Back Home!"

And once again, the tracks I thought might buffalo folks are the ones everyone's nailing, and the tracks I thought would be relatively easy are stumping folks!

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Al, I gotsta know... had you ever heard "Scratch"?

So, I've spent quite a bit more time on track 2, listened very carefully, and did some listening to other recordings and samples at the iTunes store for more ideas on guitarists and their tones, and I'm back to say, quite confidently............ that I'm still stumped. $%^*@$!%@^%#!!!!

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I don't really know Ernest Ranglin...any chance in hell that it's him?

Truly, truly grasping at straws...

That's a tough one. I thought I still had his (rare) "Wranglin'" album in my digital collection, but it seems to be gone. I don't recall him ever having a sound that big and broad (or impressive, to my ears). I guess I couldn't rule him out, though.

Although I certainly know of them, I'm not too familiar with the work of the aforementioned Szabo, Sharrock, and Richardson (although I know I have some of the latter's sideman work somewhere in my collection). Listening to samples of the first two, I'm not hearing "it". Billy Butler did have a (18" body) Gibson Super 400 for part of his career (shows up on his Prestige work), but I don't think this is BIlly, whom I generally recognize pretty well (and idolize). The upper range of this player's tone almost reminds me of a Gretsch sound (but now I'm grasping at straws). Gotta keep thinking on this...

Edited by Jim R
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I don't know what surprises me more: the level of curiosity for this track, or the fact that it hasn't been ID'd. By that, I mean I put that on here without any pretense of stumping anyone: I just love this track and the album from which it came which, if it's any help, gives absolutely zero indication the direction the sax player would eventually take.

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I don't know what surprises me more: the level of curiosity for this track, or the fact that it hasn't been ID'd. By that, I mean I put that on here without any pretense of stumping anyone: I just love this track and the album from which it came which, if it's any help, gives absolutely zero indication the direction the sax player would eventually take.

Not John Klemmer, then?

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The thing that seems really "eccentric" to me is at the end of his chorus, when he brings the springs of the reverb into play. I don't know I've ever heard that happen as instigated from the guitar as opposed to kicking the amp or something.

I may not be hearing a detail you're hearing, but here's my take on this. At the very end of his chorus (beginning at roughly 2:10 elapsed time), he hits a two or three-note chord a couple of times, with a fairly strong attack. The sound seems pretty much identical to me to the sound he got when hitting the same chord earlier in the solo, beginning at roughly 1:39 elapsed. I'm hearing reverb all the way through the solo, but the strength of the effect varies with attack and volume.

I have to say that I like the solo (am impressed by it) more each time I listen to it. It's a little quirky (especially that slightly "sour" note at 1:26), but tasty, and some of the chords are perfect, creating a great mood.

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Check it out at 1:39-1:40 and again at 1:54-1:55 and finally at 2:10-2:11..it's not exactly spring noise, but it's more than just straight reverb, it's some kind of percussive carry-over to the sound, and spring sound is as close as I can come to describing it. It's like the strings are being hiw so hard they're shaking the amp or something!

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