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Jazz Junkies released


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Serious question - how come we still got jazz and we still got junkies but we ain't got no Charlie Parkers, etc.?

What do we need to do, shoot everybody up, get everybody hooked, and then see what happens? See if we can get that genius juice flowing through those veins?

I know some current jazz junkies, and yes, they are junkies, and yes, they are jazz musicians, but they would never be worthy of deification, straight or high.

Maybe they just ain't high enough. Try harder junkies, try harder!

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Hi again Dan--Frankly, I am amazed--I'm not feigning this--I've posted this on quite a few Jazz discussion boards and this community is the first to find it so abhorrent and distasteful. Or at least, the first to express their outrage.

Although, I did watch Ken Burns' documentary, I was unaware of any controversy, but I'm guessing the criticism started right here... :smirk:

I have to say I disagree about 'Linking artistry to the use of junk is questionable at best'(I've discussed this in earlier posts)--and I don't think I am being callous to either the artists or their fans. I don't find the term "Junkie" derogatory like you seem to. The Junkie is holy to me. These are religious prints. I don't know what else to say.

Hi Ted--That's because I'm quoting from Jack Kerouac there and that's the way he spelled it.

JSngry--check out the footnote to 'Howl'.

Edited by Kamiblue
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I can't imagine anyone but a pseudo-hipster wanting a poster advertising junkie jazz even though junk was a fact of life for these artists. Do you think they would say yes to this art if they were still alive? Somehow I doubt it. They all knew just as all junkies know that this is no real way to live. The only time they might disagree is when the junk first hits the brain.

As others have said, you probably mean well at some level but the fact that you don't get it or you're too proud to admit it is a bit troubling.

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JSngry-I don't know what you're talking about

See, this lady (she looks like she could be a variant on Chan Parker) is trying to enjoy life, take it to a higher plane, but the spaghetti of life won't let her, it is too much the boss of her and slaps her every time she starts to partake. She feels overwhelmed and needs an escape so she can get to her own special place. So she takes the Tums heroin and chills that shit right down so she can go about ruling life the way only a hip chick with a belly full of Tums heroin can. The Tums heroin puts her life where she wants it to be and now she can stare down the spaghetti life and it just limps out. She is free, at least until the Tums heroin wears off. And it always does.

I mean, if you can't understand how Tums heroin works, are you sure you're ready for the real thing?

Now see here; I just read "My Life in Eb", and Chan never once mentions being hooked on Tums (or junk, for that matter) :rofl:.

She seemed to be a real boozehound, though.

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six string-I'm not advertising "junkie jazz"--just a piece of junk(in a lot of the opinions I've received here), perhaps. I'll say it one more time--My prints are laments for the untimely loss of these great artists. It's pretty clear that anyone hooked on any type of junk, doesn't want to be hooked on it. My intention was not to say that addiction is good. I am simply mourning their brief lives and in doing so, mourning all junkies. If that is objectionable to you and this fine community, so be it. I'll end with a quote from "Chimes of Freedom".

Tolling for the aching whose wounds cannot be nursed

For the countless confused, accused, misused, strung-out ones an' worse

An' for every hung-up person in the whole wide universe

An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

I think I pretty much defended my prints in earlier posts. If anyone cares to read them, they remain here--But I'm gone..Thanks for welcoming me here.

oh, and for you my dear holy JSngry---"then what?"--Then act like it and don't be surprised if someone tries to remind e v e r y b o d y.

In the Nirvanas of your brain

where you hide

indulgent and huge

no longer Charlie Parker

but the secret unsayable Name

that carries with it

merit not-to-be-measured

from here to up down east or west.

Charlie Parker

lay the bane off me

...and everybody.

Edited by Kamiblue
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Merde! JS...It seems that your logic is a bit constipated---Tums addiction? But being that you have that quote about logic and because you are holy I'll forgive you.

Let me put this in terms your copromania would appreciate--The reminder(the shizz(ing)) in this case was the followup action, i.e. my followup post to your farty posts--If you fart than yes you should probably take action, but who farted?

The prints are also the shit(IMHO) and I think they impart that same message, albeit visually, which I took the time(followup action) to remind you and e v e r b o d y who cared to follow these posts to read.

We cool?

Edited by Kamiblue
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Ciao Marcello--If I said that I was related would you feel more inclined to support my prints? :Nod:

No, no relation--Joe Scarpa, see http://en.wikipedia....f_Jay_Strongbow, bore a striking resemblance to my very dark-skinned father, who probably could have passed for a Native American(at least a Hollywood one) too ...so maybe he was related. You're not related to Marcello Mastroianni, are you?

Edited by Kamiblue
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I can't imagine anyone but a pseudo-hipster wanting a poster advertising junkie jazz even though junk was a fact of life for these artists. Do you think they would say yes to this art if they were still alive? Somehow I doubt it. They all knew just as all junkies know that this is no real way to live. The only time they might disagree is when the junk first hits the brain.

As others have said, you probably mean well at some level but the fact that you don't get it or you're too proud to admit it is a bit troubling.

see this is the real deal

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and maybe a bit more from me.....see I know a guy from the Bronx that is still alive today that was in a detox facility in 1959 with Jackie McLean.

I will call him Richie as that is his name.

He is 71 years old and clean 19+ years from everything. His life shooting dope in the late 50's and 60's and then methadone from 1970 to July 20th, 1993 was not glorious, heaven like or anything to do with the fantasy of the junkie's from the so-called golden agae of everything - an age that never existed except in some people's brains - or apparently in lunatics like Ginsberg or Kerouac - and no I never read them, don't know shit about them or the beats or do I care to - I love jazz of then, today and in between - and today's the most for what that is worth.

There is no heroin addict or crackhead or cokehead or methaddicti who lives life - at least certainly not a life worth living.

myself, for the last 2 years before through some amazing circumstances I couldn't listen to even Evan Parker...fact is I *left* after the first set of Die Like a Dog Trio (Peter, William and Hamid) in May of 2003 to put the damn fucking pipe in my mouth -couldn't wait ANY FUCKING longer.

nothing fucking romatic about being a addict, junkie or drunk.

shit, I know - I an one - but November 7th, 2004 was the last time I used anything...

and fwiw, music has never been better, and as some know, I see and hear the greatest (for me) that NYC offers on a regular basis - and in 2 weeks, Jim Black's bass drum will be 10 feet from my brain, heart and mind.....

Get Ready to Receive Yourself

Edited by Steve Reynolds
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Hi Steve--Um, I replied to that--

six string-I'm not advertising "junkie jazz"--just a piece of junk(in a lot of the opinions I've received here), perhaps. I'll say it one more time--My prints are laments for the untimely loss of these great artists. It's pretty clear that any one hooked on any type of junk, doesn't want to be hooked on it. My intention was not to say that addiction is good. I am simply mourning their brief lives and in doing so, mourning all junkies. If that is objectionable to you and this fine community, so be it. I'll end with a quote from "Chimes of Freedom".

Quote

Tolling for the aching whose wounds cannot be nursed

For the countless confused, accused, misused, strung-out ones an' worse

An' for every hung-up person in the whole wide universe

An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

I think I pretty much defended my prints in earlier posts. If anyone cares to read them, they remain here--But I'm gone..Thanks for welcoming me here.

Edited by Kamiblue
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Steve, I understand your points and sympathize with you--I don't agree with your assessment of either Kerouac or Ginsberg(although, I don't think they'd mind being called lunatics) or with your preference for today's Jazz over say Louis Armstrong or Django Reinhardt. It was a vital art, but it reached its end in the 1960s and since then has been something of a dead art form. That's just my opinion though and I'm sure this will only invite more vitriol towards me...Bring it, I'll take all of you motherfuckers...jk---Please don't...I'm not a Jazz musician..

There may be an inherent romanticism in my prints, but the intention was not to romanticize addiction..I kind of addressed that earlier too.

Here's a quote you might like from Hunter S. Thompson(his styling of reportage was clearly Beat)--

I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.
Edited by Kamiblue
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and clearly Hunter S. Thompson ended up so self-hating that he killed himself - so clearly the drugs didn't work for him - denial is a fucking bitch - especially for guys like him (i saw him in a pathetic drunken rage in Lowell Mass sometime around 1980). There was no glory in anything he had become even then - imagine the last 15 to 20 years of his life.

and I don't look for any sympathy - no need to feel bad or sorry for me or anyone else that has the disease of addiction - sure maybe for the guys back in the day when there were limited ways to access recovery and little understanding of the true nature of drug addiction.

fortunately for me I was willing to follow direction of mostly old-time street dope fiends who were terrors to themselves, their families and their communities wheo also learned about the true nature of addiction and found a way out.

as far as jazz being dead, we have heard that before - but apparently you are younger than I (I am 52), but sir if you love jazz, you simply be wrong.

be in NY in OCTOBER this year for In Order to Survive and hear Hamid Drake with about 70 others - and maybe stay all week and hear the great band 6 times.

hav you heard Hamid Drake play the drums LIVE and in person?!?!?!

You will hear the *great* Cooper-Moore on piano - and he is a treasure of this music, his artistry sits right next to any of the pianists of this generattion or any generation.

and William Parker leads the band with the altoist Rob Brown and trumpeter Lewis Barnes.

and they play twice a night all week at The Stone

sure, they should be at The Vanguard every 6 months for a week, but then agian, it is what it is.

dead? not so much, maybe only from a romantic's perspective, I guess

Standing on a Whale Fishing for Minnows

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Hi Steve--Yeah, I was pretty upset when I visited Lowell, Mass too-- Jack Kerouac,who died a bitter alcoholic,was born there and moved back there for a time after being so soundly trashed as writer of significance...From what I know about Hunter he chose to end his life because his body and art were failing him and he wanted to go out on his own terms..I feel bad for any one addicted to junk--William Burroughs, who was much invested in the idea of control, saw junk addiction as the ultimate control. But I especially feel bad for those we lost to junk, which is really all that I'm trying to say. Another quote from the footnotes to 'Howl" with annotations from me.

Holy Peter(Orlovsky, mentally unstable and a fellow drug taker) holy Allen(experimented with most drugs and spent time in a mental hospital) holy Solomon(Carl, insane) holy Lucien(Carr, an alcoholic) holy Kerouac(drug addict and alcoholic also spent time in a naval hospital as a mental patient) holy Huncke(junkie)holy Burroughs(junkie) holy Cassady(drug addict, mentally unstable man, who died at the age of 41 by the train tracks from exposure in San Miquel de Allende(which I visited) after having passed out from a combination of drugs and alcohol) holy the unknown buggered and suffering beggars holy the hideous human angels!

Holy my mother in the insane asylum! Holy the cocks of the grandfathers of Kansas!

Holy the groaning saxophone! Holy the bop apocalypse! Holy the jazzbands marijuana hipsters peace peyote pipes & drums!

I asked you to please refrain from discussing the current state of Jazz as surely you and many others on this board are Jazz musicians and know quite a bit more about it than I do. However, I will proffer my opinion. I think Jazz died when Miles Davis(once a great Jazz musician) decided to try to mix it with funk soul and rock music. Herbie Hancock and innumerable others followed suit. The last great Jazz musicians to me were John Coltrane(another junkie) and Sun Ra(possibly insane) and I think the music as a relevant art form pretty much expired when Coltrane did. Anyway, that's around the time that I stop listening. I'm not sure what we hear today can even be properly called Jazz, but like I said I'm not a Jazz musician and I really haven't listened to any current Jazz music. I am indeed significantly younger than you and I defer to your far greater knowledge of Jazz--Alas, I haven't been listening. I have family in NY and if I'm there in October I will definitely take your advice and check it out. Thanks.

Edited by Kamiblue
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fwiw I am not a musician either.

I think it's dangerous to glorify not only addiction but to over-glorify the supposed last great jazz musicians.

Coltrane is the greatest example of this. First off, all of his great accomplishments occured years AFTER he stopped shooting heroin.

secondly, the idea that one would stop listening because of one group of musicians (Miles, et al and others) did what they did. I was never that much interested in all that either, but Mal Waldron never went there - ever hear Billie's last pianist in his prime from the 70's through the 90's?

Dead??? He played his piano like his life depended on it, and it might have - Mal, Verve, Balck and Blue, baby

what about the AACM, the NYC Loft musicians, the great british, dutch and german innovators, the post Loft downtown musicians, the St.Louis BAG group, and all in between?

Just from Chicago in the past 30 years??

If you are THAT interested in those 3 great artists (Billie, Charlie and Chet) why wouldn't you be curous about some equally (yes, I said it) great musicians that have carried on that tradition and expanded upon it?

Jazz was dead by the end of the 1960's???

Blue Winter, baby

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Steve I just thanked you for hipping me to those musicians in NY and said that I would try to listen. I am definitely not trying to glorify addiction---I'm lamenting it...If you look at and read my prints you can definitely see that. If anything they are a protest not for, but against junk addiction. Oh, and you said that they were "the supposed last great jazz musicians", not me..They're just among my favorites....As to your question:

If you are THAT interested in those 3 great artists (Billie, Charlie and Chet) why wouldn't you be curous about some equally (yes, I said it) great musicians that have carried on that tradition and expanded upon it?

I plead ignorance, I haven't heard it, but if you doubt my admiration for the 3 artists I chose to glorify(not for being junkies--although I do believe that junkies and everyone and everything are holy) you'd be incorrect.

Edited by Kamiblue
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