George Benson

[Milestones]

I'm sure that many would agree that Benson is a fine jazz talent who has never played enough jazz--or at least not in a long time. Nothing wrong with his singing; I sometimes find it appealing. It's more the over-produced records and the inevitable pop orientation. Even when he has seemingly tried to return more to jazz, the results are uneven. Case in point is the new Guitar Man. The title alone suggested it might satisfy those who want to hear Benson play jazz. The guy has chops galore and sounds so smooth....in a good way, when he gets into a stripped down situation. But this record is a pretty advanced production, with plenty of vocals; and do we really need more versions of "Don't Know Why" and "Lady in My Life"? Still it may be worth while just for "Tenderly," "Naima," and a swinging "Paper Moon."

The only Benson record I've heard that verges on a masterpiece is Beyond the Blue Horizon. Man, does he burn on "So What," and plenty of good stuff follows. I have heard my share of 60s tracks with Ronnie Cuber, which are good but perhaps too basic and limited. I know that another poster had posed a "what if?" here--what if Larry Young played on those sessions.

In any case, I will continue to listen to Benson, but so far I'm having trouble finding 60-70 minutes of first-rate stuff I could listen to over and over again.

[Dan Gould]

In any case, I will continue to listen to Benson, but so far I'm having trouble finding 60-70 minutes of first-rate stuff I could listen to over and over again.

Have you heard this?

Benson in 1973, two discs of live music with Mickey Tucker in support, only one vocal track, excellent song selection. Probably really his last straightahead date, it obviously pre-dates his ascent as a pop star.

[Milestones]

Dan,

Yes, I have heard several of these tracks, and certainly they are good.

It looks like for nearly everyone here, Benson lies beneath jazz consciousness!

[JohnS]

Not having seen Wes, Benson is probably the finest guitarist I've seen live. He performed at Ronnie Scott's in a purely jazz role in a quartet with Earl Klugh on second guitar. The group, somewhat augmented can be heard on Body Talk. I find the earlier CTI things very listenable. The Columbia sides have their moments and his numerous sideman appearences elsewhere are always good.

[CJ Shearn]

Benson has always been one of my favorite guitarists, "Cookbook", "It's Uptown", "Beyond the Blue Horizon", and "Body Talk" are favorites of mine. His playing rhythmically and harmonically is always a joy, and his playing with the CTI All Stars, Lonnie Smith, Jack McDuff and JOS is some of the greatest guitar playing with organists ever put to tape. "Guitar Man" was dissapointing because it offered glimpses of George really cutting loose like the earlier days, but not really stretching out much, like he knew the limitations of his smooth jazz and R&B fans buying the record. Also because it was promoted as back to basics, a lot of us straight ahead fans bought it too. We all know George still can really burn, and he does often, sitting in at clubs, its just he doesn't document that side on records much anymore. The interview the Smithsonian conducted with him (available online in a 100 page transcript, I think the link was posted here once) is one of the most fascinating interviews I've ever read. The man is a wealth of knowledge, and a wealth of knowledge about the jazz guitar tradition, which he clearly loves.

[robertoart]

Benson has always been one of my favorite guitarists, "Cookbook", "It's Uptown", "Beyond the Blue Horizon", and "Body Talk" are favorites of mine. His playing rhythmically and harmonically is always a joy, and his playing with the CTI All Stars, Lonnie Smith, Jack McDuff and JOS is some of the greatest guitar playing with organists ever put to tape. "Guitar Man" was dissapointing because it offered glimpses of George really cutting loose like the earlier days, but not really stretching out much, like he knew the limitations of his smooth jazz and R&B fans buying the record. Also because it was promoted as back to basics, a lot of us straight ahead fans bought it too. We all know George still can really burn, and he does often, sitting in at clubs, its just he doesn't document that side on records much anymore. The interview the Smithsonian conducted with him (available online in a 100 page transcript, I think the link was posted here once) is one of the most fascinating interviews I've ever read. The man is a wealth of knowledge, and a wealth of knowledge about the jazz guitar tradition, which he clearly loves.

I'm glad someone else bothered to read that interview. Maybe old George was so candid and open in that interview to make up for all the years he hasn't recorded a burnin guitar album

Benson 'is' the Jazz Guitar tradition, and along with Pat Martino, one of the last survivors of the great Organ/Guitar era. He plays a lot without a pick these days, and reels off the most effortless chord/melody improvisations imaginable.

And add 'Bad Benson' to the list.

Edited February 6, 2013 by freelancer

[JSngry]

I don't get all the..."distress" that Benson causes. The guy's one helluva player, made some really good money, enjoys having it, and now works when and how he feels like it. If he was an author or a painter or a director or a plumber or a carpenter, everybody would be all "yeah, nice job!". But no, he's a jazz musician, so it's all "you BETRAYED us!", like when you decide to be a jazz musician you sign some loyalty bloodoath to never open a window, much less leave the room or some such. Whatevrrr.

What's wrong with George Benson? Nothing. What's wrong with "jazz fans" that they have a problem with the George Bensons of the world? Hell if I know.

[JETman]

I don't get all the..."distress" that Benson causes. The guy's one helluva player, made some really good money, enjoys having it, and now works when and how he feels like it. If he was an author or a painter or a director or a plumber or a carpenter, everybody would be all "yeah, nice job!". But no, he's a jazz musician, so it's all "you BETRAYED us!", like when you decide to be a jazz musician you sign some loyalty bloodoath to never open a window, much less leave the room or some such. Whatevrrr.

What's wrong with George Benson? Nothing. What's wrong with "jazz fans" that they have a problem with the George Bensons of the world? Hell if I know.

I know I've been all over you for all your tongue-twisting monolugues and such, but I've gotta give you your props on this one. Very well said!

[CJ Shearn]

That was very well said Jim. I personally don't choose to pick up Benson album if they aren't of interest, I guess for me, is whenever I listen to a side he did that *is* burning, I wish there were more recent examples of him doing that. Then theres the issue of clones he's spawned like Norman Brown, a dude who can obviously play the hell out of his guitar, he just does stuff I don't like, but the clones make me want to hear the real Benson thing even more. But more power to him for what he does and enjoys.

[robertoart]

The angst against Benson is over rated. Who puts Benson down these days? Not many I don't think. He only had a handful of really big Pop hits anyway. I've never read or heard a guitar player (at least) that's had a bad word for him. Even his so-called Pop albums were full of brilliant contemporary Funk and Jazz playing. And not all of it was over-produced either. Although some of it was. And how big was his Jazz audience in the early days anyway. Hammond/Baritone combo's were hardly knocking them dead in Miles and Mingus land. I think all this George betrayed us bullshit was mostly retrospective.

How many people were criticising the CTI albums that even cared for 'purity'. Everyone was being produced that way who wasn't in 'the chamber Jazz bag", not just Benson.

We Want George!

Even the clones are good, Norman Brown, Mark Whitfield, Lee Ritenour.

Too much George is never enough.

Another great George Benson moment is Jiimmy Smith's The Boss on Verve.

You also get the greta Nathan Page. A equally brilliant player, but less hyper active.

Edited February 6, 2013 by freelancer

[robertoart]

And did the musicians who turned their backs on Jazz to be part of "The Studio" scene get such supposed vitriol.

Or were they always lauded for their 'very creative' contributions to The Monkees or Steely Dan albums?

[Milestones]

I think the key is to have a balance. God knows w'eve seen plenty of work by artists like Michael Brecker and Herbie Hancock in pop and rock veins, sometimes in fairly anonymous session roles. But they have devoted more than enough time and energy on real jazz.

Benson can do whatever he likes; he is certainly entitled to it. But I have to go by my own taste, and I just haven't found much of his stuff that truly appeals to me.

[mjzee]

The passion and interest that Benson arouses fascinates me. He's a good guitar player, has chops and all that, but there are lots of good guitarists, many of whom have a more personal sound. When Benson's discussed, it's always "what he could have become." OK, he didn't take that path, or really any sort of innovative path - he just wanted to please his audience. Nothing wrong with that. But why the fascination? In other words, what did he do early in his career to create expectations of greatness?

This is not meant as a diss on Benson. He's a good musician who's made some very enjoyable records. But so has, say, Lou Donaldson. I accept Lou for who he is, but I don't expect greatness from him.

[Chuck Nessa]

What mjzee said.

[sgcim]

I think the key is to have a balance. God knows w'eve seen plenty of work by artists like Michael Brecker and Herbie Hancock in pop and rock veins, sometimes in fairly anonymous session roles. But they have devoted more than enough time and energy on real jazz.

Benson can do whatever he likes; he is certainly entitled to it. But I have to go by my own taste, and I just haven't found much of his stuff that truly appeals to me.

I've got to agree with this. There are plenty of jazz guitarists I find more subtle and swinging than GB- Ed Bickert, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow (1950s), Jim Hall, Rene Thomas, etc..., however this is all just my opinion. I know you GB supporters can be a very vocal lot, and i wouldn't want you to strain yourselves needlessly.

Benson lays more on the funk/blues spectrum than the swing spectrum rhythmically to my ears, and he and Rodney Jones can't be beat in the jazz/funk idiom.

Even Pat Martino was quoted by someone when asked what he thought of GB, as saying, "I think he's a pretty good R&B player."

Edited February 7, 2013 by sgcim

[JSngry]

I'm not sure that "widely imitated" and "personal sound" don't go hand in hand... How many people set out to imitate generic?

Personally, I find Benson to be pretty identifiable no matter what the context. And I'm not that much of a "fan". But I do think he's got a lot of skills, and I do find all the snideness towards him to be pretty silly. It's like there's all these "jazz fans" who can't warp their head around the notion that somebody can be a really good "jazz player" and still want to make a lot of money from making non-jazz music- and then dare to have the acumen to actually go ahead and do it. It's like they take it as some kind of "fuck you" to All That Is Holy And Untouchable About Jazz, when in reality, it's just some guy wants to have a really nice material life for himself and "playing jazz" wasn't going to do that for him.

"selling out" is when you can't sleep at night from guilt or something, or have to get all warped in the head because you can't live with yourself. I'm pretty sure that George Benson sleeps just fine and won't be institutionalized any time soon. And if not, True Jazz Fans can REJOICE!!!!

[robertoart]

I think the key is to have a balance. God knows w'eve seen plenty of work by artists like Michael Brecker and Herbie Hancock in pop and rock veins, sometimes in fairly anonymous session roles. But they have devoted more than enough time and energy on real jazz.

Benson can do whatever he likes; he is certainly entitled to it. But I have to go by my own taste, and I just haven't found much of his stuff that truly appeals to me.

I've got to agree with this. There are plenty of jazz guitarists I find more subtle and swinging than GB- Ed Bickert, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow (1950s), Jim Hall, Rene Thomas, etc..., however this is all just my opinion. I know you GB supporters can be a very vocal lot, and i wouldn't want you to strain yourselves needlessly.

Benson lays more on the funk/blues spectrum than the swing spectrum rhythmically to my ears, and he and Rodney Jones can't be beat in the jazz/funk idiom.

Even Pat Martino was quoted by someone when asked what he thought of GB, as saying, "I think he's a pretty good R&B player."

Wrong.

Martino and Benson have only good things to say about each other. The only slightly pejorative thing Martino has put on the public record is that he believes Benson's guitar abilities grew exponentially with his commercial desires. Otherwise, I would imagine they have some significant connections. Including Tal Farlow in a list of subtle guitarists is a bit of a stretch. Ed Bickert will always be high on the snoozefest register as well.

Whatever energy Benson has devoted to 'real jazz' will remain fairly significant, and will continue to be a key component of Jazz guitar studies curriculum long after Organissimo readers, and 'the real jazz' enthusiasts, are dead and buried.

Maybe Benson's guitar genius is mostly only apparent to other guitar players.

Funny how Black guitar players continue to be marganilised as 'funk/blues' or 'Jazz/funk spectrum players. To say Benson or Rodney Jones 'dont swing' or are rhythmically streamlined is ignorant. Is there a Black guitar player you might put forward as sustaining your interest, or are they all too 'unsubtle' for your taste. Oh I suppose Wes Montgomery will be your answer?

[CJ Shearn]

Grant Green was hardly "subtle" nor was Eddie McFadden, though sometimes the chops weren't quite where the imagination was in the latter case. GG's rhythmic sense in his lines is pretty explicit, as is Benson's. Pat Metheny on George Benson:

"yes, george has come to see me play - and yes, i was stunned. he is one of the greatest musicians to ever address the guitar as a serious jazz instrument - and he certainly is one of the major forces in the evolution of what is possible to do with the ax. his sound, his tone, the way that he plays with the drums are all just fantastic. he is someone that i always make a point of going to hear if we are on the same festival or something. besides all that, i know there are people who moan about the fact that he sings so much - but, i love his singing almost as much or more than i love his guitar playing. i guess, you can see - i am a big fan. as far as playing together goes - i think i would just let him have it, and go off to the audience and enjoy the master - then go home and practice picking all night long!"

Edited February 7, 2013 by CJ Shearn

[robertoart]

The passion and interest that Benson arouses fascinates me. He's a good guitar player, has chops and all that, but there are lots of good guitarists, many of whom have a more personal sound. When Benson's discussed, it's always "what he could have become." OK, he didn't take that path, or really any sort of innovative path - he just wanted to please his audience. Nothing wrong with that. But why the fascination? In other words, what did he do early in his career to create expectations of greatness?

This is not meant as a diss on Benson. He's a good musician who's made some very enjoyable records. But so has, say, Lou Donaldson. I accept Lou for who he is, but I don't expect greatness from him.

The fact is he 'did' become great. And he did it early on. He just didn't devote the rest of his life to following a 'guitar trio' format.

He was an innovator (on his instrument at least) and will be recognised forever as such. This is beyond question. Whether you or anyone else likes or is attracted to the contexts (commercially or artistically) he chose to illuminate his guitar genius in, is always subjective. His guitar playing greatness is unquestionable. Lou Donaldson was/is a significant part of a certain kind of Jazz history, but he didn't change the way people played the saxophone. George Benson is part of the historical hierarchy of Jazz guitar playing. Like it or not, care less or not.

Grant Green was hardly "subtle" nor was Eddie McFadden, though sometimes the chops weren't quite where the imagination was in the latter case. GG's rhythmic sense in his lines is pretty explicit, as is Benson's. Pat Metheny on George Benson:

"yes, george has come to see me play - and yes, i was stunned. he is one of the greatest musicians to ever address the guitar as a serious jazz instrument - and he certainly is one of the major forces in the evolution of what is possible to do with the ax. his sound, his tone, the way that he plays with the drums are all just fantastic. he is someone that i always make a point of going to hear if we are on the same festival or something. besides all that, i know there are people who moan about the fact that he sings so much - but, i love his singing almost as much or more than i love his guitar playing. i guess, you can see - i am a big fan. as far as playing together goes - i think i would just let him have it, and go off to the audience and enjoy the master - then go home and practice picking all night long!"

I remember reading this at the time.

I kinda think Metheny is saying George Benson is 'great'!

[JSngry]

Not to quibble or anything, but in the interest of considering different perspectives, I'd just like to point out that this:

Benson lays more on the funk/blues spectrum than the swing spectrum rhythmically to my ears, and he and Rodney Jones can't be beat in the jazz/funk idiom.

expresses a division of quantification, compartmentalization, I guess you could call it, that not everybody makes, or thinks about making.

Not that it shouldn't be done, necessarily, just that not everybody does.

[mjzee]

The passion and interest that Benson arouses fascinates me. He's a good guitar player, has chops and all that, but there are lots of good guitarists, many of whom have a more personal sound. When Benson's discussed, it's always "what he could have become." OK, he didn't take that path, or really any sort of innovative path - he just wanted to please his audience. Nothing wrong with that. But why the fascination? In other words, what did he do early in his career to create expectations of greatness?

This is not meant as a diss on Benson. He's a good musician who's made some very enjoyable records. But so has, say, Lou Donaldson. I accept Lou for who he is, but I don't expect greatness from him.

The fact is he 'did' become great. And he did it early on. He just didn't devote the rest of his life to following a 'guitar trio' format.

He was an innovator (on his instrument at least) and will be recognised forever as such. This is beyond question. Whether you or anyone else likes or is attracted to the contexts (commercially or artistically) he chose to illuminate his guitar genius in, is always subjective. His guitar playing greatness is unquestionable. Lou Donaldson was/is a significant part of a certain kind of Jazz history, but he didn't change the way people played the saxophone. George Benson is part of the historical hierarchy of Jazz guitar playing. Like it or not, care less or not.

I do like to ask questions; not much, for me, is "beyond question." You say he became great early on. Could you please list some examples (tracks and the albums they're on)? Please don't say "everything," because that's not really helpful. I'd like to understand more about what you're hearing and referring to. You also say he's an innovator; again, could you please list some specific examples? I'd appreciate it.

[Steve Reynolds]

What mjzee said.

really who cares except for the people posting here.

I couldn't buy a George Benson jazz album recorded in the past 35 years as apparently there arn't any.

so he's not that interested or interesting, so why would anyone who is really into jazz/improv be interested.

kind of like Herbie Hancock only moreso.

so may great players today and we want to talk about someone who could care less about jazz - if he did he would make a fucking jazz record.

[robertoart]

What mjzee said.

really who cares except for the people posting here.

I couldn't buy a George Benson jazz album recorded in the past 35 years as apparently there arn't any.

so he's not that interested or interesting, so why would anyone who is really into jazz/improv be interested.

kind of like Herbie Hancock only moreso.

so may great players today and we want to talk about someone who could care less about jazz - if he did he would make a fucking jazz record.

This of course is complete crap.

But somehow I still like the post.

Edited February 7, 2013 by freelancer

[robertoart]

The passion and interest that Benson arouses fascinates me. He's a good guitar player, has chops and all that, but there are lots of good guitarists, many of whom have a more personal sound. When Benson's discussed, it's always "what he could have become." OK, he didn't take that path, or really any sort of innovative path - he just wanted to please his audience. Nothing wrong with that. But why the fascination? In other words, what did he do early in his career to create expectations of greatness?

This is not meant as a diss on Benson. He's a good musician who's made some very enjoyable records. But so has, say, Lou Donaldson. I accept Lou for who he is, but I don't expect greatness from him.

The fact is he 'did' become great. And he did it early on. He just didn't devote the rest of his life to following a 'guitar trio' format.

He was an innovator (on his instrument at least) and will be recognised forever as such. This is beyond question. Whether you or anyone else likes or is attracted to the contexts (commercially or artistically) he chose to illuminate his guitar genius in, is always subjective. His guitar playing greatness is unquestionable. Lou Donaldson was/is a significant part of a certain kind of Jazz history, but he didn't change the way people played the saxophone. George Benson is part of the historical hierarchy of Jazz guitar playing. Like it or not, care less or not.

I do like to ask questions; not much, for me, is "beyond question." You say he became great early on. Could you please list some examples (tracks and the albums they're on)? Please don't say "everything," because that's not really helpful. I'd like to understand more about what you're hearing and referring to. You also say he's an innovator; again, could you please list some specific examples? I'd appreciate it.

Here is an answer via the brilliant guitarist Bobby Broom.

This has been on the net a while.

Everywhere I read the thoughts of African American guitar players, from major publications - to the darker corners of the internet - it's clear that George Benson is a cultural hero.

http://www.jazz.com/dozens/broom-picks-benson

[JSngry]

I mean, I know it's a drag to have to go to dance music to hear such damn fine guitar playing, but...world gone wrong, right, jazz fans?