Milestones Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) I want to pose the question of whether Chick is at a peak, or whether he is over-exposed. It it is tough to keep up. The 2-disc "Forever." The 2-disc trio with Eddie Gomez and Paul Motian. "Hot House" with Burton. "The Continents"(I think 2 discs; I have not heard it). A couple of sets featuring RTF. And he has not yet documented a trio with Christian McBride and Brian Blade, which I saw a couple of years ago in Oberlin, Ohio. Anyway, I know there is more...maybe a couple of sets of piano duets, and going back (but not much) the Five Peace Band. There seems no stopping him. I've enjoyed his music for a long time, but it's not possible to keep up on the listening. Edited February 26, 2013 by Milestones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 I think it's a matter of him having his own production company (which used to be the Stretch label), and doing whatever he wants artistically, which I think is great. That said, go for the 2 disc "Forever", the 3 disc (2 CD+1 DVD) "The Mothership Returns", "Further Explorations", and "The Continents". I listened to the latter half of disc 2 the other day after having the album more than a year and it's wonderful. "Five Peace Band" is very worth while. The music he's been making recently is some of his best I think, he's certainly challenged himself with different projects, admirable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Imo, Armando peaked 35 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 My favorites are the first two I heard: Stan Getz's Sweet Rain and Herbie Mann's Standing Ovation at Newport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Imo, Armando peaked 35 years ago. Any album he's put out in the last 15 years has been leagues better than anything he put out in the late 70s. Who are you? Clem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I guess some people can't accept that an artist can produce a good deal of quality work (or even any quality work) at a somewhat advanced age. That's a very odd notion to me, especially when it comes to jazz music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I guess some people can't accept that an artist can produce a good deal of quality work (or even any quality work) at a somewhat advanced age. That's a very odd notion to me, especially when it comes to jazz music. I'm guessing it's either the thought that Chick isn't "authentic" enough, or that he reads "Diabetics" too frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Not much good can be said about "dianetics" or "diabetics." He's done more than one tribute to L. Ron, so let's throw him under the bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) I think he should make the many Japanese only projects available here like "Super Trios", "Five Trios" and "Akoustic Band Live at Blue Note Tokyo". Regardless of what you think of the Akoustic Band, that album is HOT, with Vinnie Colauita (ditto what you think about him or Weckl) absolutely smoking. The 10 disc "Rendezvous in NY" boxset is nice too but all the best shows are available individually. Edited February 28, 2013 by CJ Shearn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Say what you want about Chick. I still see him as extraordinarily vital and true to his vision. I don't get the same impression about him at age 70 that I get about all those old dudes that Granz was parading around the world in the 70s while producing all those "let me document them before they die" sessions on Pablo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Yep, he shows a lot of creativity, vitality, and versatility. More than ever we are seeing some remarkable things from musicians his age (like John McLaughlin) and from some only a bit younger (like Tom Harrell and Mike Stern). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I never liked what he played. Too many notes, not enough taste or discretion. Listen to "Black Beauty," where he's virtually battling Miles, and compare it to Live Evil, where Jarrett really complements the music and Miles's vision. Return To Forever was all bombast and commerciality. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I never liked what he played. Too many notes, not enough taste or discretion. Listen to "Black Beauty," where he's virtually battling Miles, and compare it to Live Evil, where Jarrett really complements the music and Miles's vision. Return To Forever was all bombast and commerciality. Just my two cents. Black Beauty demanded that type of playing. Funny you should compare that to Jarrett's role in Miles' band. If you listen to Keith, he was only there because he looked up to Miles, hated playing the electric instruments and basically didn't have a clue as to what he was doing. So what you're hearing as complementing was actually cluelessness. Btw, the first two RTF records were not at all bombastic or commercial. I suggest you reach into your pocket for a different pair of pennies.Mike Stern is 10 years younger than Corea. Yep, he shows a lot of creativity, vitality, and versatility. More than ever we are seeing some remarkable things from musicians his age (like John McLaughlin) and from some only a bit younger (like Tom Harrell and Mike Stern). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Stern is getting pretty old for a long-haired metal guitarist, as some like to think of him.Frisell, Scofield, and Metheny are no youngsters either.JETman, agreed--that first RTF is indeed a classic and contains not one bit of bombast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Just read that Stern's half-sister is Kyra Sedgewick. So his stock just rose in my book Stern is getting pretty old for a long-haired metal guitarist, as some like to think of him. Frisell, Scofield, and Metheny are no youngsters either. JETman, agreed--that first RTF is indeed a classic and contains not one bit of bombast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Chick's recorded output the past decade plus has been creative and challenging. Certainly for me, more than Herbie's. A session like the one with Hiromi or Stefano Bollani, could have easily been ones showing the torch being passed, but they are vital documents, same with the recent RTF, and now the Vigil band. Took me a while to completely dig Corea, despite knowing his playing for years, glad I did. Edited February 28, 2013 by CJ Shearn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarThrower Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Corea is one of those creative geniuses who can keeping cranking out tons of material, but how many albums do I need? The only recent recording I've considered is the date with Paul Motian, which I still haven't picked up. I don't need new albums of RTF material. I've been hearing that stuff for 30 years. I did get to see RTF for free two years ago, so that was cool. I enjoyed hearing the compositions played live, but I could do without the kitchen sink guitar solos from Gambale. I enjoyed Chick's and Ponty's soloing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) John said: Black Beauty demanded that type of playing. Funny you should compare that to Jarrett's role in Miles' band. If you listen to Keith, he was only there because he looked up to Miles, hated playing the electric instruments and basically didn't have a clue as to what he was doing. So what you're hearing as complementing was actually cluelessness. I totally disagree about Jarrett with Miles. Despite what he said, he played brilliantly and to say he didn't have a clue is total bullshit. Both Chick and Keith, individually and collectively, contributed greatly to the Miles Davis music of those years. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I really like Chick's work up through the ECM years and then. . . well. . . I really heard nothing that I felt I had to own until the Origin studio and live material came out. Just a personal thing, as Starthrower mentions how many Corea albums does one need? Not many in my case. It's not like other artists where I want to have all I can of their work, I'm much choosier about his work and really like his most traditional fare the best. Edited February 28, 2013 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Seriously, are some going to argue that Chick is NOT an amazingly eclectic musician and creative force? Since he clearly is that, one needs a lot of records by him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 No need to take it personally. It's my opinion and I stand behind it. Clearly Chick was more into the electric stuff than Keith was. To me, that dedication makes a huge difference. Overall, I'd agree that the MUSIC was great, but that doesn't mean that each individual excelled or even had to excel. That was what Miles was all about, after all. John said: Black Beauty demanded that type of playing. Funny you should compare that to Jarrett's role in Miles' band. If you listen to Keith, he was only there because he looked up to Miles, hated playing the electric instruments and basically didn't have a clue as to what he was doing. So what you're hearing as complementing was actually cluelessness. I totally disagree about Jarrett with Miles. Despite what he said, he played brilliantly and to say he didn't have a clue is total bullshit. Both Chick and Keith, individually and collectively, contributed greatly to the Miles Davis music of those years. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I really like Chick's work up through the ECM years and then. . . well. . . I really heard nothing that I felt I had to own until the Origin studio and live material came out. Just a personal thing, as Starthrower mentions how many Corea albums does one need? Not many in my case. It's not like other artists where I want to have all I can of their work, I'm much choosier about his work and really like his most traditional fare the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I'm in the camp where I really need to go back sometime and get his early trio records and explore, I've been focusing on where his music is now. I also like how in some his recent albums you get a sense of the inner workings of his process, mistakes, studio chatter, chatter on the bandstand, etc. Also as a fellow Gemini, it's understandable that his creative impulses going in different directions, wherever he feels like at the moment. That's how he applies the lessons from Miles, I think. Also with many of his albums like "Further Explorations" (which I'm listening to now) being particularly dense double albums, it's a lot to digest, I'm still trying to wrap my head around that album actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) No need to take it personally. It's my opinion and I stand behind it. Clearly Chick was more into the electric stuff than Keith was. To me, that dedication makes a huge difference. Overall, I'd agree that the MUSIC was great, but that doesn't mean that each individual excelled or even had to excel. That was what Miles was all about, after all. John said: Black Beauty demanded that type of playing. Funny you should compare that to Jarrett's role in Miles' band. If you listen to Keith, he was only there because he looked up to Miles, hated playing the electric instruments and basically didn't have a clue as to what he was doing. So what you're hearing as complementing was actually cluelessness. I totally disagree about Jarrett with Miles. Despite what he said, he played brilliantly and to say he didn't have a clue is total bullshit. Both Chick and Keith, individually and collectively, contributed greatly to the Miles Davis music of those years. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I really like Chick's work up through the ECM years and then. . . well. . . I really heard nothing that I felt I had to own until the Origin studio and live material came out. Just a personal thing, as Starthrower mentions how many Corea albums does one need? Not many in my case. It's not like other artists where I want to have all I can of their work, I'm much choosier about his work and really like his most traditional fare the best. I wasn't taking anything personally, that statement is total BS. It doesn't matter what Keith's personal opinion may have been about the instruments (and I don't totally believe what he says)--he delivered as effectively as Chick (maybe even more so as far as tonal varieties and funk groove). "Doesn't have a clue what he's doing?" That's just utter BS, or to put it your way an opinion that in my opinon is either just hyperbole or uninformed. Sorry. Edited February 28, 2013 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Yeah, I mean those guys were truly listening to each other, and really adding so many colors to that rhythm section, hardly clueless. I agree also Lon that I think Keith enjoyed using the electric instruments more than he says he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Imo, Armando peaked 35 years ago. plus one. also he's a criminal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILLYQ Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Imo, Armando peaked 35 years ago. plus one. also he's a criminal... What's the criminal part, I don't think I've heard that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.