Brad Mehldau on Bill Evans

[skeith]

You guys should give Mehldau a break. As far as I see it, he was just stating a frank and honest opinion. Members of this forum have often stated less than enthusiastic opinions about Bill Evans, Does Brad Mehldau's fame as a jazz pianist mean that he shouldn't have the right to state his? And what he said about Bill Evans was really not that damning. He just indicated that he personally does not understand why Bill Evans gets so much attention relative to other pianists.

See the above - I think that what is so galling about Mehldau's comments is that Mehldau seems to be so obviously influenced either directly or indirectly by Evans. I guess I suspect he doth protest too much.

I think JonRaney said it pretty well above.

Edited March 21, 2013 by skeith

[six string]

Yes, well stated JonRaney. I like some of Mehldau's music but those comments are really unnecessary. Methinks there is more to what he said than the face value.

Bad hair day? Fight with the wife? etc...

[Blue Train]

Speaking of Shipp. Here is his take on Braxton.

http://www.furious.com/perfect/matthewshipp2.html

Yeah, it's not like Mehldau is Matthew Shipp talking about Herbie Hancock

[paul secor]

What's the big deal here? A musician making a statement about another musician. It's happened many times before and it will happen many times again.

People have the right to their own opinions. If I agree or disagree, that's life. I try and listen and form my own opinions from what I hear and feel.

[six string]

I've heard musicians criticize other musicians before so you're right, nothing new under the sun. I just feel a little sad that he has to put down a fellow pianist/jazz musician and for what? Headline grab or just in a funky mood or maybe he's tired of being compared to someone that he doesn't feel a simpatico with. That's all fair in my book too but at the same time, we all know how hard it is being a jazz musician, especially these days and even though in this case the other person isn't alive, I still think it's unnecessary to put down others. Does he have a right to an opinion? Of course he did as you pointed out Paul but I don't get why he had to say it to someone interviewing him. The jazz musicians who I've heard say negative things about others said it in a private conversation and I've not repeated any of it. That too is unnecessary imo.

[paul secor]

I've heard musicians criticize other musicians before so you're right, nothing new under the sun. I just feel a little sad that he has to put down a fellow pianist/jazz musician and for what? Headline grab or just in a funky mood or maybe he's tired of being compared to someone that he doesn't feel a simpatico with. That's all fair in my book too but at the same time, we all know how hard it is being a jazz musician, especially these days and even though in this case the other person isn't alive, I still think it's unnecessary to put down others. Does he have a right to an opinion? Of course he did as you pointed out Paul but I don't get why he had to say it to someone interviewing him. The jazz musicians who I've heard say negative things about others said it in a private conversation and I've not repeated any of it. That too is unnecessary imo.

Musicians have done blindfold tests and have criticized other musicians in print. Musicians have occasionally done reviews and have criticized other musicians in print. Probably musicians have criticized ther musicians in interviews. It's human nature to have opinions and sometimes those opinions are made publicly. To me, they're just opinions and I take them as such - nothing more.

[Raneyjr]

It's not really a question of the right to express an opinion. Ofcourse he can say whatever the hell he wants as can anyone else. It's really intent on his part to sort of publicly draw a line in the sand to say "you know what, Evans ain't all that". I think that tone is pretty clear. So I am taking my own opportunity to publicly rebut this position in the same spirit so long as the subject remains alive on boards. My perception of this is really also colored by another diatribe he did on one of his album jacket where he went into all this same deal on Evans. Don't have it in hand but I remember reading it. So it's a soapbox subject for him. All the philosophical layers peeled away I think this is a simple matter, he feels insulted for being compared to Evans and being indirectly negated or demoted by the critics who seek to place him as influenced, a disciple or in general "under" Evans. In other words, talk about me. Not him. Mehldau is talented and has monster skills, there is no denying that, but the extent that he pursues this points to a petty narrative that really won't help his music or his audience.

But let's get into the real details as long as we're at it. In terms of the album "he never even listened to". Can you imagine a more cogent ass kicking and timeless solo than Bill's on My Funny Valentine? Or his comping concept behind Jim Hall? Who was doing that then in 1962? Nobody. I talked about that album with Jim. He said that "it was like Bill was inside my brain". It's a masterstroke. There is a full-bodied concept to what Evans does from start to finish. Meldhau can often drift from concept to concept in search of something within a solo. Not always. but often. Like for example on some live ballads. Where you give him the floor and he does these halting phrases- where he consciously avoids the downbeat as a concept (he is trying to imitate singers who backphrase) but doesn't make too many definitive statements, then at the end he goes hog wild into tangental themes and variations. Use Evans "Alfie" from Montreux II as a counter-reference. That is perfection. He knows what he's doing every moment and bursting with earthy feeling throughout with complete weaving between his head rendition and his integrated solo. Even if he prepared a lot of it. The music is alive. nothing anybody including meldhau could play comes close. If you're a man you tip your cap and say, "Bill, you've got it." There is something he can learn from Evans in that regard. Sure there is shit that Meldhau can do technically that few pianists including Evans could ever do but there is a lot there that he's taking for granted. Sometimes the simple difference between someone who knocks you out and someone who leaves you cold is what's going on in their head, not their fingers.

[paul secor]

It's not really a question of the right to express an opinion. Ofcourse he can say whatever the hell he wants as can anyone else. It's really intent on his part to sort of publicly draw a line in the sand to say "you know what, Evans ain't all that". I think that tone is pretty clear. So I am taking my own opportunity to publicly rebut this position in the same spirit so long as the subject remains alive on boards. My perception of this is really also colored by another diatribe he did on one of his album jacket where he went into all this same deal on Evans. Don't have it in hand but I remember reading it. So it's a soapbox subject for him. All the philosophical layers peeled away I think this is a simple matter, he feels insulted for being compared to Evans and being indirectly negated or demoted by the critics who seek to place him as influenced, a disciple or in general "under" Evans. In other words, talk about me. Not him. Mehldau is talented and has monster skills, there is no denying that, but the extent that he pursues this points to a petty narrative that really won't help his music or his audience.

But let's get into the real details as long as we're at it. In terms of the album "he never even listened to". Can you imagine a more cogent ass kicking and timeless solo than Bill's on My Funny Valentine? Or his comping concept behind Jim Hall? Who was doing that then in 1962? Nobody. I talked about that album with Jim. He said that "it was like Bill was inside my brain". It's a masterstroke. There is a full-bodied concept to what Evans does from start to finish. Meldhau can often drift from concept to concept in search of something within a solo. Not always. but often. Like for example on some live ballads. Where you give him the floor and he does these halting phrases- where he consciously avoids the downbeat as a concept (he is trying to imitate singers who backphrase) but doesn't make too many definitive statements, then at the end he goes hog wild into tangental themes and variations. Use Evans "Alfie" from Montreux II as a counter-reference. That is perfection. He knows what he's doing every moment and bursting with earthy feeling throughout with complete weaving between his head rendition and his integrated solo. Even if he prepared a lot of it. The music is alive. nothing anybody including meldhau could play comes close. If you're a man you tip your cap and say, "Bill, you've got it." There is something he can learn from Evans in that regard. Sure there is shit that Meldhau can do technically that few pianists including Evans could ever do but there is a lot there that he's taking for granted. Sometimes the simple difference between someone who knocks you out and someone who leaves you cold is what's going on in their head, not their fingers.

So what? Let the man have his say and if you don't agree, walk away.

[Raneyjr]

I'm done. He's had his say and now I've had mine

[david weiss]

We all seem to get compared to someone at some point and sometimes it really sticks and while initially you might be flattered after a while you are pigeonholed and as years go by, you start to get really sick of it.

Backlash ensues......

And yes sometimes you go overboard and don't really mean to be that harsh but enough is enough sometimes.....

I've heard musicians criticize other musicians before so you're right, nothing new under the sun. I just feel a little sad that he has to put down a fellow pianist/jazz musician and for what? Headline grab or just in a funky mood or maybe he's tired of being compared to someone that he doesn't feel a simpatico with. That's all fair in my book too but at the same time, we all know how hard it is being a jazz musician, especially these days and even though in this case the other person isn't alive, I still think it's unnecessary to put down others. Does he have a right to an opinion? Of course he did as you pointed out Paul but I don't get why he had to say it to someone interviewing him. The jazz musicians who I've heard say negative things about others said it in a private conversation and I've not repeated any of it. That too is unnecessary imo.

Musicians have done blindfold tests and have criticized other musicians in print. Musicians have occasionally done reviews and have criticized other musicians in print. Probably musicians have criticized ther musicians in interviews. It's human nature to have opinions and sometimes those opinions are made publicly. To me, they're just opinions and I take them as such - nothing more.

I recently did a blindfold test and yes, there was perhaps some criticism.....

It was under the guise of just talking honestly about the music at hand but some will certainly take it as criticism......

[robertoart]

Speaking of Shipp. Here is his take on Braxton.

http://www.furious.com/perfect/matthewshipp2.html

Yeah, it's not like Mehldau is Matthew Shipp talking about Herbie Hancock

What a never less than interesting discussion going on in that interview.

I can't ******* believe it though! He's a Bowie fan

I was thinking I'm just about to chow down on 'Shipp on The Art Ensemble'

...and he's actually talking about DAVID Jones.

[JETman]

Speaking of Shipp. Here is his take on Braxton.

http://www.furious.com/perfect/matthewshipp2.html

Yeah, it's not like Mehldau is Matthew Shipp talking about Herbie Hancock

What a never less than interesting discussion going on in that interview.

I can't ******* believe it though! He's a Bowie fan

I was thinking I'm just about to chow down on 'Shipp on The Art Ensemble'

...and he's actually talking about DAVID Jones.

C'mon, we all know that the REAL David Jones was in the Monkees!

[robertoart]

Speaking of Shipp. Here is his take on Braxton.

http://www.furious.com/perfect/matthewshipp2.html

Yeah, it's not like Mehldau is Matthew Shipp talking about Herbie Hancock

What a never less than interesting discussion going on in that interview.

I can't ******* believe it though! He's a Bowie fan

I was thinking I'm just about to chow down on 'Shipp on The Art Ensemble'

...and he's actually talking about DAVID Jones.

C'mon, we all know that the REAL David Jones was in the Monkees!

But they both shared an edgy flirtation with the Androgynous

[JETman]

Speaking of Shipp. Here is his take on Braxton.

http://www.furious.com/perfect/matthewshipp2.html

Yeah, it's not like Mehldau is Matthew Shipp talking about Herbie Hancock

What a never less than interesting discussion going on in that interview.

I can't ******* believe it though! He's a Bowie fan

I was thinking I'm just about to chow down on 'Shipp on The Art Ensemble'

...and he's actually talking about DAVID Jones.

C'mon, we all know that the REAL David Jones was in the Monkees!

But they both shared an edgy flirtation with the Androgynous

And, they share irrelevancy as well.

[robertoart]

If Bowie is well regarded in the musical consciousness of a figure like Shipp, he is far from an irrelevancy.

And if you've ever been around any old farts in the Visual Arts, you'll know Bowie is 'a sacred space'

C'mon, how good was Scary Monsters? Pop-Art, Art-Pop,, Art-Rock? It was a great moment in Mainstream music.

Young Americans?

If Bowie was 25 years younger, Meldhau would be covering him. The Thom Yorke of his generation

Edited March 22, 2013 by freelancer

[Steve Reynolds]

not a big fan of Mehldau and I'm an admirer of Evans but over the years, I have pursued other areas of listening interests inside and outside of jazz.

HOWEVER, it must be a real bitch being a current performing jazz musician and always being compared the the grand masters of the past. I mean - look at the listening paterns of many - they don't even address the music released the past 30 years unless it is from an old dude or a revivalist label....

the classic case is the comparisons that all post-Coltrane tenor players have to deal with up to this day.

then we get pianists being compared to Evans/Hancock/Tyner and even Sonny Clark or Red Garland, etc.

with drummers it is Max/Elvin and maybe even Ed Blackwell

and ON and ON and ON

The idea that Evan is untouchable base don the exmaples of his music reminds me of Branford'as comments comparing Evan Parker's music to Coltrane - "it doesn't have the drive, it doesn't do this, etc."

If we take ourselves and the mythology out of the equation, it might be possible to think or imagine that in some cases (or many?!?!) that some of the current musicians might be on the same level or beyond the grand masters of the past.

So I understand Mehldau's gripe - who wouldn't be aggravated?

I mean Fred Anderson on good night was on the level of the guys the same age as him who are considered legends - he just happened not to be known wider until he was in his late 60's or 70's.

And Oscar Noriega or Tony Malaby or Michael Attias or Marty Ehrlich or Thomas Chapin (RIP) or Evan Parker or Toby Delius or Paul Dunmall or Rob Brown or Chris Potter or Darius Jones or Michael Moore from the next or next generation from the legends can all play with ANY of them - and on good nights or good days in the studio - the results are there for anyone with a BIT of an open mind to see, hear and feel.

we can still and do embrace the well known legendary music created in the vast world of jazz, but when it is instituted and claimed and untouchable, a myth is born.

even though Mal Waldron thoughout the last 25-30 years of his life made extraordinary music, that music was marginalized as he played with THAT band in 1961 (Dolphy, Little, Davis, Balckwell) and he was Billie's last pianist - that's the known history by the standard record keepers wheo themselves seemed to die in 1965.....well sometimes the body is buried many years later - Ben Franklin said that fwiw

but that pales in reality to Transylvanian Dance - as *that* piano genius from maybe 1996 is truly untouchable and yet because it isn't of the golden era, it is hardly even known to exist, even though the man at the piano chair was, in fact, one of the legends who maybe just lived a little too long for the historiacl cogenecenti.

blood and guts, baby

[Carl Baugher]

I like Mehldau. The sense I got from his comments about Evans is that he was just tired of being compared to Bill. I think that's understandable. I do believe he tried to marginalize Evans to a degree and I'd bet that he might state something different now if the subject came up. I also think Bill Evans is a major figure in the jazz piano lineage.