BFT 111 Discussion

[Joe]

It's time!

To listen and / or download, please visit: http://slowstudies.net/bft111/

As per usual, no theme here other than these are selections drawn from my recent listening. (That said, if you have an aversion to Fender Rhodes or non-piano keyboards in general, consider this an advance warning.) There are chains of association strewn all across these 25 diverse tracks -- self-indulgent, I know; but my weak defense is that many of these tracks are relatively short... by "jazz standards" -- but far from every association is clear / apparent even to me. (Assembling one of these typically sends me into a kind of waking DJ Dream state.) I'm not out to trick listeners... well, not too much... either, rather offer enjoyment, divert, and surprise. So, above all, have fun. Or at least use this BFT as a means of shaking off the dust of every-day life.

Looking forward to the chatter.

Ciao,

J

[jeffcrom]

I'm not dead yet!

[Joe]

I'm not dead yet!

Absolutely not! If anyone has not yet done so, consider this a plug for Its a good'un.

What with the holiday weekend, travel, etc., I had to let this hen out while I could. Don't let it peck you to distraction, though.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Joe

[JSngry]

I had to let this hen out while I could. Don't let it peck you to distraction, though.

a-HA! "Distraction In The Coop" by Hen Gates with Peck Morrison. I KNEW it!

[Joe]

I had to let this hen out while I could. Don't let it peck you to distraction, though.

a-HA! "Distraction In The Coop" by Hen Gates with Peck Morrison. I KNEW it!

Amazing detective work!

[felser]

First I want to thank you for the BFT and say it was my favorite BFT listening experience ever – I think our tastes match up really well, and I look forward to finding out a lot of the answers.

Comments will be selective, as I’ve learned that I just make a fool of myself if I do too much guessing, and just saying “I thought that was pretty cool” 15 times isn’t interesting reading.

2 – Loved this one, can’t wait to find out what it is and if I own it already.

4- I recognized the song from the first Three Dog Night album. A little research showed that it was written by Larry Williams, and that Williams and Johnny Guitar Watson recorded it together in the 70’s. So that version must be what this is. I really enjoyed it.

11 – Sounds very much like a lot of what Freddie Hubbard was doing on Columbia in the 70’s.

13 – I think my ears are pretty big, but this does not work for me.

20 – I think this has to be Big John Patton with Harold Alexander on tenor from one of those 1968 recordings. Don’t have ability right now to get to the CD’s and ID the tune.

21 – Interesting player. He sounds slightly “sharp” to me, as Dolphy, Von Freeman and a few others do to me also. I liked this. Think it must be 60’s vintage from the bass/drums sound, which I also really enjoyed.

Other favorites included 1,10,12,24

[Joe]

First I want to thank you for the BFT and say it was my favorite BFT listening experience ever – I think our tastes match up really well, and I look forward to finding out a lot of the answers.

Comments will be selective, as I’ve learned that I just make a fool of myself if I do too much guessing, and just saying “I thought that was pretty cool” 15 times isn’t interesting reading.

2 – Loved this one, can’t wait to find out what it is and if I own it already.

4- I recognized the song from the first Three Dog Night album. A little research showed that it was written by Larry Williams, and that Williams and Johnny Guitar Watson recorded it together in the 70’s. So that version must be what this is. I really enjoyed it.

11 – Sounds very much like a lot of what Freddie Hubbard was doing on Columbia in the 70’s.

13 – I think my ears are pretty big, but this does not work for me.

20 – I think this has to be Big John Patton with Harold Alexander on tenor from one of those 1968 recordings. Don’t have ability right now to get to the CD’s and ID the tune.

21 – Interesting player. He sounds slightly “sharp” to me, as Dolphy, Von Freeman and a few others do to me also. I liked this. Think it must be 60’s vintage from the bass/drums sound, which I also really enjoyed.

Other favorites included 1,10,12,24

My pleasure! And thanks for your thoughts.

2 features at least one rather familiar name, and one, if I may, "cult favorite." For me, this track is all about how the trumpet player states the theme.

4... in all honesty, I did not know about the Three Dog Night version of this tune. Must now hear it for myself.

11 is of more recent vintage than that, but Hubbard's CTI dates do provide a touchstone I'd not previously considered.

13's temperament is indeed a bit challenging. I'm not sure this approach would work except in miniature.

20 is also of more recent vintage. Within that context, the identities of the organ player and percussionist may come as a surprise to some.

21: tonality, tonality, tonality! I like the notion of this alto player connecting with Von Freeman (though this alto player is associated with the fertile scene in a city that's not Chicago).

Really looking forward to more comments on 10 and 12!

Best,

J

[picketfence]

1 sounds like a nina simone instrumental.

in 2 i hear booker ervin?

12 is absolutely gorgeous. i know that I know him. tony holland maybe?

21 is wow as well. and I have a thirtsty ear for things like 23.

great bft.

[Joe]

1 sounds like a nina simone instrumental.

in 2 i hear booker ervin?

12 is absolutely gorgeous. i know that I know him. tony holland maybe?

21 is wow as well. and I have a thirtsty ear for things like 23.

great bft.

Thanks for listening!

No comment on the comment on 1

You know, I'd not thought about the tenor player on 2 showing an Ervin influence, but I sure hear it now. Though his time is just a shade different from Booker's... again, IMO, the key to identifying this track is the trumpet player.

I'm not familiar with Tony Holland, or at least I'm not recognizing the name. Anthony Holland, who played with A. Spencer Barefield and the Griot Galaxy? Care to say more about what you are hearing herein? (And, yea, I love this track and the entire LP from which its been pulled.)

23 is almost certainly the most obscure track included on this BFT.

[lipi]

I was going to skip this BFT, because, let's face it, if it was recorded after electricity was invented, I usually don't like it. But I saw Nina's name in this thread, and I like *her*. So I braved it. (And I cheated and have read the comments so far.) I don't have anything intelligent to say about most of this. Lame attempts at humour below.

Track 1: "African Mailman" from Nina's first recording session, in 1957. The stand-outs from that session, for me, dance-obsessed fool that I am, are "Love Me or Leave Me" and "My Baby Just Cares for Me".

Track 2: music for an Austin Powers movie.

Track 5 is bugging me something fierce. C'mon. Surely I know this! Late 20's. Ugh. I can't identify anyone! Whoever takes that clarinet solo at 0:45 is doubling, I suspect--but that doesn't help me much. Maybe the same guy who takes the warbling alto (?) solo around 2:00? If so, that must be the leader, but I hear more than one reed, so who knows. Some territory band?

Jeffcrom is going to come by and name this tune in three notes, and I'll feel dumb.

Track 9: music for a "Strange Encounters of the Third Kind" sequel. Oh. It changed. I don't know what it is now. Doesn't fit my hypothetical movie very well anymore. Too bad.

Track 13: music for a documentary about cats walking across piano keyboards. Maybe this changes, too, but I didn't stick around to find out.

Track 20: music for a bizarre, drug-induced, avant-garde Pink Panther cartoon.

Track 22: I don't know where to start. I just want you to know that to unenlightened souls like myself, this sounds eerily like a bus or train is telling me to get out of the way.

Five is gonna bug me.

Edited June 1, 2013 by alex.

[Joe]

I was going to skip this BFT, because, let's face it, if it was recorded after electricity was invented, I usually don't like it. But I saw Nina's name in this thread, and I like *her*. So I braved it. (And I cheated and have read the comments so far.) I don't have anything intelligent to say about most of this. Lame attempts at humour below.

Track 1: "African Mailman" from Nina's first recording session, in 1957. The stand-outs from that session, for me, dance-obsessed fool that I am, are "Love Me or Leave Me" and "My Baby Just Cares for Me".

...

Track 5 is bugging me something fierce. C'mon. Surely I know this! Late 20's. Ugh. I can't identify anyone! Whoever takes that clarinet solo at 0:45 is doubling, I suspect--but that doesn't help me much. Maybe the same guy who takes the warbling alto (?) solo around 2:00? If so, that must be the leader, but I hear more than one reed, so who knows. Some territory band?

Jeffcrom is going to come by and name this tune in three notes, and I'll feel dumb.

Track 9: music for a "Strange Encounters of the Third Kind" sequel. Oh. It changed. I don't know what it is now. Doesn't fit my hypothetical movie very well anymore. Too bad.

...

Track 22: I don't know where to start. I just want you to know that to unenlightened souls like myself, this sounds eerily like a bus or train is telling me to get out of the way.

Five is gonna bug me.

I can say no more re: track 1.

You're warm on 5... but the question becomes which territory?

9 dates from about the time of the initial release of "Close Encounters of the Third Kind," actually...

And, though you did not provide a film analogy for 22, there is a cinematic connection there.

Thanks for auditioning these tracks!

[JSngry]

Just doing a preliminary skim, and #16 = oh HELL yeah! And HA HA HA! LOLHAPPY YES!!!!

[JSngry]

And #25 - don't think that I don't know what this is, because I do!

[Joe]

Just doing a preliminary skim, and #16 = oh HELL yeah! And HA HA HA! LOLHAPPY YES!!!!

A good chunk of this BFT goes back to that late March drive to and from Houston.

[JSngry]

oh my...

There was some stuff played on that trip, eh?

Will try to get The Full 25 commented on sooner than later...gotta do it justice and not just skim.

But #2 - Woody Shaw/Nathan Davis?

[Joe]

I can say no more re: 2. But I will ask: what makes you think that's Woody?

More than the listening to... there was all that was discussed. 25 being party to that, too.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

BFT111

I love the album art!

Part 1 (or A)

1 I thought I recognised the pianist at the beginning, but when the rhythm section came in, I realised I didn’t know him/her from Adam. Nice though. Eddie Palmieri?

2 I’m going to kick myself when we get the answers because I feel sure the tenor and trumpet players are well within my normal ambit. The baritone player sounds a bit tentative and I don’t know him, I think. The pianist sounds OK but ordinary, to me. The drummer is very interesting, particularly early on.

3 Must be Ronnie Cuber on baritone. Never heard many of Ronnie’s own albums (my bad) so I don’t know what this is, but it’s fuckin’ great! To think I could have been listening to this for 30-40 years! Oh, the last nearly 3 mins are much more African than I’d expect from Ronnie – so maybe it’s Lekan Animasaun? Nah, it’s Ed Pazant, ‘Psychedelic Pucho’, the DJs favourite. So I HAVE been listening to this for the last thirty-something years!

4 Unhh?

5 New Orleans marching band music. One for Jeff or Alex to identify. I like the clarinet player very much. I like the whole thing, really. I think I know the tune, too: is it ‘West end blues’? It’s post-war; probably sixties or even later.

6 This is another nice one. But it goes on rather too long for me, I think. Ran Blake?

7 Kind of squawky alto player. Fifties bebop I’d guess. Off my radar. Pleasant without being terribly interesting to me.

8 Can’t say this is doing much for me, Joe. The tune has the relaxed feeling of some of Hank Mobley’s tunes but I don’t know it.

9 The intro to this kinda turned me off but, as it went on, I found myself warming to it. I think, during the bass solo (which sounds like Dave Holland to me) the guitarist and Rhodes player are getting in the way a bit. Pleasant, without having anything very much to say or be.

A second listen to this, after hearing #10, leads me to Dwight Dickerson on piano and Rufus Reid on bass.

10 Is this the same band? Or the same Rhodes player? Well, I think it’s another track from the same album, just by the sound and volume (I had to turn it way, way up for #9 and it’s still up there now). The drummer is really on target on this cut. And I’m getting a bit of a Clare Fischer feeling about this. But NOT a Dave Holland feeling about the bass player. Oh, this is live; was #9? No. And, of course, there’s no guitarist audible on this, so it’s not the same band. It’s just that all Rhodes sound alike (to me).

11 Well, the volume control’s settled back down now. More Rhodes. Can’t say the trumpet player means much to me, though there are familiar bits on his solo. Ditto the tenor player. Oh, I know – it’s a jazz record!

12 More of the same. No it ain’t. Oh this is nice! Not the faintest idea of who these musicians are but I rather want to know.

13 Unhh?

Part 2 (or B)

14 Nice groove in the rhythm section but, when the tune comes in, it doesn’t seem to fit. Vibes player brings it back OK. Then the sax player loses it – he doesn’t seem to want to swing at all. Nor does the pianist. Waste of a groove.

15 Ooo, nasty spiky stuff! Must get some Earl Grant on

16 Nice. Is this Jimmy Owens?

17 Back to acoustic piano – ‘So many roads, so many trains to ride’

18 A bit of 70s funky stuff here, by the sound of the technology. Well, in between other stuff. I dunno…

19 Sounds like a rather warbly K7 rip. The 22 Band does a train number with a rhythm like this, but I doubt if this is African.

20 Hm, an organist… Recent recording, however. I am not really digging the tenor player, though I might with a bit more listening. Interesting organist; sounds like he’s self-consciously trying NOT to sound like anyone; even himself.

21 Some people I quite like, like Arthur Blythe, sometimes, or perhaps even often, play stuff I really don’t. This sounds like one of those people. Could it be Anthony Ortega?

22 Sun Ra? The dog’s out in the garden, irritating my wife, otherwise he’d be seriously pissed off with this. Especially the cat miaowing.

23 This sax player would be much more likeable without the industrial background, the point of which I fail to see.

25 There’s something familiar about this. Danged if I know what, though. Best guess is Young-Holt Unlimited.

I’ve got to confess there wasn’t all that much that attracted me in this, Joe, but some stuff that interested me, which is good.

Thanks

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Ah, just realised #25 is Ram C Lewis - 'Uhuru', from 'Another voyage'. So YHU wasn't too far out.

MG

[JSngry]

I can say no more re: 2. But I will ask: what makes you think that's Woody?

Tone & time.

[Joe]

MG -- good ears on several of these cuts... you've nailed a couple, and propose some interesting ballparks for some others.

There's a Sun Ra connection in this BFT, but not with respect to track 22.

17: train, trolley, what's the difference?

20: the organist is the key member of this band, IMO.

14 is, again IMO, features an unusual assembly, i.e., maybe this explains why the band's fit doesn't sound quite right to you.

OTOH, 15 was something of a working band, plus -- here -- one guest.

No Jimmy Owens on this BFT, but I did consider including a track from his MPS date (NO ESCAPING IT).

19 is as much about the producer as the band (but it is still an interesting band).

There's no explicit connection (i.e., shared personnel) between 9 and 10. But you are right / right on to single out the drummer on the latter.

Thanks for listening!

J

Edited June 3, 2013 by Joe

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

And #25 - don't think that I don't know what this is, because I do!

So do I

MG

[tkeith]

One listen, no peaking. About 1/3 of this, I loved, and must have. About 1/3 didn't resonate, and the final 1/3 made me angry, at times. So, good job!

01 - No guesses, but dug the hell out of it. Has a Randy Weston-ish feel at times, but it's not him.

02 - I'd call it Work Song, but they won't. No matter what you call it, I like it. Man, tenor has some GREAT influences. There's some T, some Dexter, a touch of Junior Cook... Billy Root? Don't know but loved every second of that solo. A touch of Freddie in that trumpet, but I'll guess Donald Byrd. Hmm.. that bari didn't resonate with me at all. Sounds like a very off Hank Crawford. Pity, because the rest of the tune is killin'.

03 - Proof I'm perverse -- I hear this breaking into Les McCann and Richie Havens ("Freedom! Freedom!..."). <smile> Nothing not to love here. Damnit! You're going to make me spend more money!

04 - No idea. Typically I like this sort of stuff, but I've been on a Bobby Womack/Isaac Hayes kick lately, so the bar is set pretty high.

05 - No guesses. I always find the very early stuff hard to listen to because it reminds me of junior high Jazz band. I'm not being snarky -- the music was in its infancy so the approach was comparatively rudimentary. In the right mood, I have a clear appreciation. If I'm just in a normal mood, it simply doesn't maintain my interest. This is somewhere in between those two states. It's interesting to a point, but then I just can't stay focused on it.

06 - Something had me leaning towards Mal Waldron, but it's not him. I don't think of there being a Mal Waldron "school", but that what it sounds like is going on here. A worthy listen.

07 - Speaking of schools, someone I don't know from the Tristano school.

08 - Man, I'm loving this. Sounds like someone close to Golson, but the tone is more Kamuca. Could be Kamuca on a great day. A lot to like here. I'm going to reverse that after hearing the alto. Sounds like Cannonball but some of the lines are too modern, so I'm guessing it's Snidero. That means I have no idea who the tenor is, but I want to know in a very bad way, now. Good, solid, straight-ahead Jazz. No new ground is broken here, but that's not its intent. This just works.

09 - Trippy. Doesn't really resonate, but I was tapping my foot the whole time.

10 - Same rhodes feel (could almost be the same record), but a completely different feel. Has my interest instantly. Could the switch to acoustic bass have anything to do with that? Likely. Something very familiar about those drums. There's an Elvin influence at time, but a huge Alan Dawson influence. Not busy enough to be Franklin Kiermyer, and too gritty to be Brian Blade. Yoron Israel wouldn't be a bad guess here.

11 - I like the quirky melody, but the sound of that snare is driving me nuts; like someone is playing his funk kit instead of his Jazz kit. Overall groove is nice. Sort of like Eddie Henderson but more swagger. A little mellow, in terms of tone, to be Jeremy Pelt, but that's what the approach reminds me of. You know, this could well be a Brian Blade project. The tenor is boring the hell out of me. Nothing wrong with the musicianship, but where's the story? He's got a slightly more personal sound than most of the "recordable" generation, but I'm still seeing the mathematical equations more than the soul.

12 - Loving the bass on this. Reminds me a great deal of Stafford James on Gary Bartz' I've Known Rivers, but a better bass sound than Stafford. This is going to seem like an odd statement, but here goes: Once the rhythm kicks in (the pulse, I guess I should say), this strikes me as if it is Indian Jazz musicians. I can't say why other than to say the time is just... odd. It isn't rushed, but feels it, somewhat. I like it, but that fact about it makes it somewhat distracting. Sometimes Michael Moore's music hits me this way, as well. About 5:30 there are some rolls that make me think this could be Han Bennink on drums.

13 - Odd and creepy, but I'm liking it. No idea who, but it's a keeper.

14 - Sounds like Sun Ra right off the bat. Struck me as Frank Lowe on the head, but when the improv starts, it's clearly not him. Drums have that sound of one of the old Freedom LPs. Maybe Clifford Jarvis? Seems like an off-the-grid sort of a band, but I'd love to have this in the archives. No idea.

15 - Bitchin' bass line. Some pretty bitchin' 'bone, too! I was thinking Lacy earlier, then no, now I'm leaning yes, again. Lacks Lacy's beautiful, precise tone, but I'm wondering how much of that could be the recording. I want this.

16 - Has a definite Bitches Brew lean towards it. No idea who it is, though. That sax line about 4:40 ends in a definite Cannonball quote. I'm going to say this is late Cannonball. Again around 5:10. Wait a minute; idiot alert. I have this. Pretty certain it's track 7, Chocolate Nuissance from this.

17 - Return to the land of recordable tenor sounds. This isn't doing a lot for me. Sounds like a lot of exercises more than music.

18 - Not feeling this at all. The snappy feel it establishes get's lost in the too long break down. When I was younger, I listened to a lot of trio stuff like this (Barry Harris, Duke Jordan) and loved the hell out it and still do. This is clearly a more modern player trying to ape that style. Just arrived at the Starlight Lounge... nope. I'm out.

19 - Horrendous sound. No guesses. A little too go-go for my tastes.

20 - Reminds me a bit of something George Adams would do, but it's not him. Maybe Hal Singer? I could love this with very little work. Sounds like the tenor is sharp to me, but could be one of the guys that I love like Frank Wright, on a weird gig. Ferocious player! I wish some modern players would do something like this. Maybe Sam Rivers? Doesn't sound quite to his level to me.

21 - I want to like this more than I do. It's sloppy, which is right up my alley, but somehow, it's also stiff. Piano and bass sound like they could be off an Aebersold play-along. Drums aren't really swinging, either. Has the sound quality of one of those Beaver Harris sides from the 70s, but lacks that loose swing he was so good at. Dutch?

22 - Very busy and I don't touch acid. This doesn't do much for me. Maybe something from Bennie Maupin? Makes me want to corner Andy Robinson in a dark alley (or Candlestick Park) and torture him for his wrongs against society.

23 - I wanted to hate this, but just couldn't. Something intoxicating about it. I started thinking it might be David S. Ware. The sound is close, but to my ear doesn't quite have the chops. That's not to take anything away from it. This is the sort of hybrid I can certainly appreciate. Seems like it might be one of the ThirstyEar projects.

24 - I don't love the tune, but otherwise, this has keeper written all over it. The drums are just cooking and the keys do just what they need to in this setting -- create tension. Something very familiar about this.

25 - By everything I've written on the last ten songs, I should hate this, but I'm so in it's ridiculous. What can I say? I'm just a sucker for the 70s.

[Joe]

Thom -- thanks for the close listen and the comments. I won't respond to everything here, but I can offer a few words here and there...

1 - Not Weston, but it has a Weston-like feel. Though the "classical" flourishes here and there are a tell. (And I can say nothing more.)

2 - Hubbard is definitely within this trumpet player's scope. As to the peaks and valleys of the soloists... this band is definitely a cultural mix.

4 - The song itself has been identified, the performers in part. But who is responsible for the arrangement, and who is that in the backing band?

6 - Not Waldron, and the key here is the composition itself (assuming it is recognizable to anyone).

7 - Yes, the Tristano groups with Konitz and Marsh are the model for this group and performance. But its not T / K / M. IN fact, I'm not sure I really like this track all that much myself, but, as a kind of impersonation, I find it both a bit eerie and a bit fascinating.

8 - Of VERY recent vintage, though the individual players have all been around for a while. Again, the composer of the tune itself is of some importance in ID'ing this.

9 - Unless someone instantly recognizes this, I think it may be the biggest surprise of all on this BFT.

12 - No, these players are not 'Mericans.

14 - I hear the Sun Ra influence as well... but this track is all about the tenor player (again, another big potential surprise).

15 - You might listen again and mull some more on the ID of that soprano player...

16 - Once more, I can say no more...

20 - Hal Singer, huh? He's at play within the confines of this BFT, but not on this track. And is that actually a tenor sax?

22 - Maybe more like the scene where Andy Robinson pays that heavy to beat him up so he can accuse Callahan of police brutality. (I'm trying to say... yes, there's a cinematic connection here... and exploitation is sometimes in the eye of the beholder.) Also... ID of the soprano sax soloist?

25 - Pre-70s actually. But some of the best of what the 70s gave us springs almost directly from this track and this group.

Glad these tracks gave you some enjoyment! Best,

J

Edited June 10, 2013 by Joe

[NIS]

Thanks for the BFT. I find 25 tracks a little overwhelming, so I've just been listening to part A right now. With the exception of maybe the vocal track I think this is a really good collection of music. Being honest though, there are just three or four things I would look into further. Actually that isn't a bad percentage.

Track 05 – On the last few BFTs I've been attracted to the traditional tracks every time. Add this one to the list.

Track 06 – You wouldn't tell by looking at my collection but I'm really a fan of solo piano. My first thought was, neat tune that sounds familiar. On repeated listens, I started to realize that this is a seriously talented piano player for my taste.

Track 12 – More to my liking than some of the other tracks. The bass is my favorite part of the track.

Track 13 – Best thing so far for me. For a more free form type of thing, they all seem to be really in tune with each other, especially the horn players. To my ears anyway.

My one obligatory wild ass guess for the BFT, track 01 made me think of Chick Corea.

On to part B.

[Joe]

Thanks for the BFT. I find 25 tracks a little overwhelming, so I've just been listening to part A right now. With the exception of maybe the vocal track I think this is a really good collection of music. Being honest though, there are just three or four things I would look into further. Actually that isn't a bad percentage.

Track 05 – On the last few BFTs I've been attracted to the traditional tracks every time. Add this one to the list.

Track 06 – You wouldn't tell by looking at my collection but I'm really a fan of solo piano. My first thought was, neat tune that sounds familiar. On repeated listens, I started to realize that this is a seriously talented piano player for my taste.

Track 12 – More to my liking than some of the other tracks. The bass is my favorite part of the track.

Track 13 – Best thing so far for me. For a more free form type of thing, they all seem to be really in tune with each other, especially the horn players. To my ears anyway.

My one obligatory wild ass guess for the BFT, track 01 made me think of Chick Corea.

On to part B.

Thanks for listening!

Track 1 has been puzzled out already, if you care to look back through the comments.

I would agree re: the talent of the pianist heard on 6. He's actually a historically significant player as well.

I would also agree that there is a "tightness" to 13, which, regardless of how you feel about the music itself, merits appreciation.