Justin V Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) With the announcement of the 2014 class, I looked at the list of NEA Jazz Masters. While I was pleased to see that Andrew Hill was recognized, I was extremely disappointed and shocked to see that Sam Rivers and Paul Motian weren't. I thought that it'd be interesting to discuss living musicians who deserve to be recognized as NEA Jazz Masters. Although I will likely think of many more musicians as soon as I post this, my list isn't meant to be exhaustive. Here are but a few deserving musicians, listed by instrument: Saxophone George Coleman Odeon Pope Billy Harper Joe McPhee Charles McPherson Sonny Simmons Trumpet Joe McPhee (again) Bobby Bradford Tom Harrell Trombone Julian Priester Piano Paul Bley Harold Mabern Richard Wyands Steve Kuhn Carla Bley Ran Blake Vibraphone Gary Burton Bass Cecil McBee Buster Williams Henry Grimes Rufus Reid Reggie Workman Bob Cranshaw Dave Holland Steve Swallow Drums Mickey Roker Billy Hart Donald Bailey Joe Chambers Barry Altschul Victor Lewis EDIT: I've added a few whom I should've listed, but I'm trying to resist the urge to keep adding more, as I know that others will likely mention them. I've also removed Joe Wilder's name because, as Mark Stryker correctly pointed out, Wilder was recognized in 2008. Edited June 27, 2013 by Justin V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) Joe Wilder was class of 2008. If I had a vote the first two musicians I would add would be Billy Hart and Marcus Belgrave (advocacy) -- their musicianship, spirit and marriage of craft, creativity, tradition and openness embodies so much of what I value in jazz. Neither are "stars," but the world is infinitely a better, hipper place with them in it. Edited June 27, 2013 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Reynolds Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) fwiw - is Paul Bley not in because he was born in Canada? only reason that he isn't listed, I would think. I mean Living musicians - musicians over 60 I would think makes sense Edward Kidd Jordan - born 1935 William Parker - born 1952 Marilyn Crispell - born 1947 Gerry Hemingway - born 1952 Milford Graves - born 1941 Andrew Cyrille - born 1939 Mark Dresser - born 1952 not surprised that both the *great* Fred Anderson (1929 - 2010) and the legendary Joe Maneri (1927 - 2009) were overlooked during their lifetimes Edited June 27, 2013 by Steve Reynolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin V Posted June 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 fwiw - is Paul Bley not in because he was born in Canada? only reason that he isn't listed, I would think. I mean Living musicians - musicians over 60 I would think makes sense Edward Kidd Jordan - born 1935 William Parker - born 1952 Marilyn Crispell - born 1947 Gerry Hemingway - born 1952 Milford Graves - born 1941 Andrew Cyrille - born 1939 Mark Dresser - born 1952 not surprised that both the *great* Fred Anderson (1929 - 2010) and the legendary Joe Maneri (1927 - 2009) were overlooked during their lifetimes Good candidates, Steve. I can't believe that I omitted some of them, particularly Andrew Cyrille, who has to be one of the greatest living drummers. How long has Bley lived in the US? Since the '50s or '60s, I presume. According to NEA's page, "the recipients must be citizens or permanent residents of the United States," which I'm assuming Bley is. It's worth noting that Toots Thielemans, who is deservedly an NEA Jazz Master, became a US citizen in 1957. It seems that anyone can nominate one person a year, and nominations remain active for 5 years. Perhaps one of our in-house journalists, or anyone else for that matter, could further the cause of a deserving musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Is Dave Holland a US citizen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin V Posted June 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Is Dave Holland a US citizen? This JazzTimes article refers to Holland moving to the Woodstock area in the early '70s. Even if he isn't a citizen, I'm assuming that he'd at least be a permanent resident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Roscoe Mitchell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Train Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 I am sure they don't have to be over 60, Steve, or alive. The Marsalis family in total is on there. Quick check....Artie Shaw and Sarah Vaughan are on there. Not mentioned Roscoe Mitchell, or anyone from Art Ensemble of Chicago Marshall Allen Hamid Drake David S. Ware Chuck Nessa Joe Lovano John McLaughlin Pharoah Sanders Tim Berne Drew Gress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Train Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Just noticed Benny Goodman and Earl Hines are not included and they died after if first started. Monk isn't included and he died the same year it started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 I am sure they don't have to be over 60, Steve, or alive. The Marsalis family in total is on there. Quick check....Artie Shaw and Sarah Vaughan are on there. Not mentioned Roscoe Mitchell, or anyone from Art Ensemble of Chicago Marshall Allen Hamid Drake David S. Ware Chuck Nessa Joe Lovano John McLaughlin Pharoah Sanders Tim Berne Drew Gress I have been biting my lip for lack of a Roscoe Mitchell mention and am now startled to see my name mentioned. Dang! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Reynolds Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 I like Drew Gress but Drew Gress?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Train Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) I could say the same about William Parker. He's been meandering/mailing it in for over a decade now. The only time I can stand him anymore is when he's with The Drake. It's really like....Hamid is here....I have to really play now. I am sure they don't have to be over 60, Steve, or alive. The Marsalis family in total is on there. Quick check....Artie Shaw and Sarah Vaughan are on there. Not mentioned Roscoe Mitchell, or anyone from Art Ensemble of Chicago Marshall Allen Hamid Drake David S. Ware Chuck Nessa Joe Lovano John McLaughlin Pharoah Sanders Tim Berne Drew Gress I have been biting my lip for lack of a Roscoe Mitchell mention and am now startled to see my name mentioned. Dang! Without you....there would be no Roscoe Mitchell and many other musicians/recordings. Edited June 27, 2013 by Blue Train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 jon faddis - ok flame away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin V Posted June 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) I am sure they don't have to be over 60, Steve, or alive. The Marsalis family in total is on there. Quick check....Artie Shaw and Sarah Vaughan are on there. Not mentioned Roscoe Mitchell, or anyone from Art Ensemble of Chicago Marshall Allen Hamid Drake David S. Ware Chuck Nessa Joe Lovano John McLaughlin Pharoah Sanders Tim Berne Drew Gress I have been biting my lip for lack of a Roscoe Mitchell mention and am now startled to see my name mentioned. Dang! As mentioned in my original post, my list wasn't meant to be exhaustive. There's nothing to bite your lip about; if you feel that anyone deserving has been omitted, mention them. I figured that someone more familiar with Roscoe Mitchell's work would suggest him. If the Marsalis family can be recognized as a group, it seems that they should have recognized the AEC while Lester Bowie and Malachi Favors were still alive. The official criteria, as listed on the NEA site, are: "Fellowships are awarded to living individuals on the basis of nominations from the public including the music community. Nominees must demonstrate a significant contribution to the art form through their publicly recognized and accessible body of work in the field of jazz. The recipients must be citizens or permanent residents of the United States. Posthumous nominations or awards will not be considered. Individuals who have previously received a NEA lifetime honor award (National Heritage Fellowship, Jazz Masters Fellowship, or an Opera Honor) are not eligible." That means that David S. Ware is ineligible, but I'm not sure that they would've ever gotten around to honoring him, unfortunately. I emailed the NEA contact person and asked about Paul Bley. I was told that the nomination list is confidential and that the nomination of a musician who has already been nominated would act as a re-nomination, extending the original nomination beyond its initial five years. Another candidate: Henry Threadgill. . Edited June 27, 2013 by Justin V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Train Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) Word on Henry Threadgill Just look at when they died in relation to.... http://www.nea.gov/honors/jazz/jmCMS/master.php?id=2005_06&type=bio http://www.nea.gov/honors/jazz/jmCMS/master.php?id=1989_03&type=bio Edited June 27, 2013 by Blue Train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin V Posted June 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) Only problem is Artie Shaw and Sarah Vaughn were not alive....and that's just a quick search of who I know died beforehand. Monk on the other hand was alive. Artie Shaw died in December 2004 and was named a Jazz Master the month before. Sarah Vaughan was named a Jazz Master in 1989 and died in 1990. Edited June 27, 2013 by Justin V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Train Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) Thanks. No, thank you. Just noticed for whatever bizarre reason they announce things for the next year. The current list is for 2014. Monk was still very much alive June 1981. Edited June 27, 2013 by Blue Train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Threadgill seem to be a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin V Posted June 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) Thanks. No, thank you. No they don't announce it until June. This link from November 4, 2004 (already posted above) reports on a gala event from the day before announcing the 2005 masters. Shaw died the following month on December 30th, although it was before the official award ceremony that January. Edited June 27, 2013 by Justin V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat5 Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Service to jazz: Pete Fountain Phil Woods Charlie Haden Buddy De Franco McCoy Tyner Gerald Wilson ... Edited June 28, 2013 by flat5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Roscoe and Chuck in the same class would be a poetic gesture. A few folks not mentioned so far who would deserve consideration: Tootie Heath, Al Foster, George Mraz Advocacy: Michael Cuscuna, Bruce Lundvall Edited June 28, 2013 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 I favor: Roscoe Chuck Cuscuna Threadgill Bobby Bradford Gary Burton (not my favorite player, but he belongs) Billy Hart Joe Chambers DeFranco (already named an NEA master) Tyner (ditto) G. Wilson (ditto) Woods (ditto) A lot of the others mentioned above are worthy figures but not masters IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Just to show how differently people can think about these things, on another online discussion board, a member posted this list of musicians who should be honored: Sir Charles Thompson Dick Hyman Bob Dorough Dave Frishberg Mark Murphy Jessica Williams Edited June 28, 2013 by Hot Ptah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Reynolds Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 Despite my (and many others) many issues with William Parker (which fwiw are documented for a couple of more days on the other board), he deserves to be honored. His legacy will be immense and his impact on the music has been much more than most realize. and as wonderful drummers that both Billy Hart and Joe Chambers are, they cannot be honered before the *great* Andrew Cyrille As much as I respect Mr. Larry Kart, they are simply not in the same category of musician or impact on the jazz/music/improvisational scene in general as Andrew Cyrille. some of us might consider him the greatest living American drummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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