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Classical Music Box Sets


David Ayers

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Not sure if we need a thread for box sets as such, but not every box set is a bargain and vice versa. Anyone have the time/stomach for the complete JEG Bach Cantatas, about to be released? Not me I don't think but you never know...

http://www.mdt.co.uk/bach-cantatas-complete-john-eliot-gardiner-soli-deo-gloria-56cds.html

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Decca Sound 2: The Analogue Years

1.CD Saint-Saens: Klavierkonzert Nr. 1; Symphonische Dichtungen (Pascal Roge, Philharmonia Orchestra, Charles Dutoit / 1980)

2.CD Bruckner: Symphonie Nr. 6 (Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Georg Solti / 1979)

3.CD Schostakowitsch: Symphonie Nr. 4 (London Philharmonic Orchestra, Bernard Haitink / 1979)

4.CD Debussy: Children's Corner; Preludes Heft 1 (Pascal Roge / 1978)

5.CD Sibelius: Pelleas & Melisande op. 46; Der Sturm op. 109 (Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, Horst Stein / 1979)

6.CD Prokofieff: Symphonie Nr. 2; Die Liebe zu den drei Orangen-Suite (London Philharmonic Orchestra, Walter Weller / 1978)

7.CD Bartok: Orchestersuiten Nr. 1 & 2; 2 Bilder op. 20; Enescu: Rumänische Rhapsodie Nr. 1 (Detroit Symphony Orchestra, Antal Dorati / 1978)

8.CD Prokofieff: Symphonie Nr. 5; Rimsky-Korssakoff: Russische Ostern-Ouvertüre; Capriccio espagnol (Concertgebouw Orchestra, Lorin Maazel/ 1977)

9.CD Violinsonaten von Debussy & Franck; Ravvel: Introduktion & Allegro (Kyung-Wha Chung, Radu Lupu, Melos Ensemble / 1977)

10.CD Tschaikowsky: Manfred-Symphonie; Valse-scherzo (Philharmonia Orchestra, Vladimir Ashkenazy / 1977)

11.CD Gershwin: Ein Amerikaner in Paris; Copland: Appalachian Spring; Lincoln Portrait; Kraft: Contextures (Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra, Zubin Mehta / 1976)

12.CD Wolf-Ferrari: Il Segreto di Susanna (Maria Chiara, Bernd Weikl, Covent Garden Orchestra, Lamberto Gardelli / 1976)

13.CD Alicia de Larrocha - Werke für Klavier & Orchester von Montsalvatge, Surinach, Falla, Faure (Alicia de Larrocha, Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos / 1976)

14.CD Schostakowtisch: Streichquartette Nr. 8, 9,15 (Fitzwilliam Quartet / 1975)

15.CD Schubert: Rosamunde; Ouvertüren von Schumann & Weber (Wiener Philharmoniker, Karl Münchinger / 1974)

16.CD Strawinsky: Le Sacre du Printemps; Ravel: Bolero; Schönberg: Variationen für Orchester (Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Georg Solti / 1974)

17.CD Grieg: Klavierkonzert op. 16; Schumann: Klavierkonzert op. 54 (Radu Lupu, London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn / 1973)

18.CD Haydn: Symphonien Nr. 94, 100, 104 (Philharmonia Hungarica, Antal Dorati / 1972)

19./20.CD Schumann: Szenen aus Goethes Faust; Mozart: Symphonie Nr. 40 (English Chamber Orchestra, Benjamin Britten / 1972)

21.CD Walton: Violinkonzert; Strawinsky: Violinkonzert (Kyung-Wha Chung, London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Prein / 1972)

22.CD Chopin: Etüden (Vladimir Ashkenazy, Klavier / 1972)

23. CD Offenbach: Le Papillon; Massenet: Le Cid (London Symphony Orchestra, Richard Bonynge / 1972)

24. CD Holst: The Planets; Saint-Saens: Symphonie Nr. 3 "Orgelsymponie" (Los Angeles PO, Zubin Mehta / 1971)

25. CD Scriabin: Klavierkonzert; Prometheus für Klavier & Orchester; Poeme de l'extase (Vladimir Ashkenazy, London Philharmonic Orchestra, Zubin Mehta / 1971)

26. CD Dvorak: Der Wassermann; Mein Heim; Die Mittagshexe; Die Hussiten; Das goldene Spinnrad (London Symphony Orchestra, Istvan Kertesz)

27. CD Bloch: Schelomo; Voice in the Wilderness; Rimsky-Korssakoff: Capriccio espagnol (Janos Starker, Israel Philharmonic Orchestra, Zubin Mehta / 1969)

28. CD Mendelssohn: Sextett op. 110; Borodin: Quintett c-moll; Berwald: Septett (Wiener Oktett / 1968)

29. CD Mendelssohn: Symphonien Nr. 3 & 4 (London Symphony Orchestra, Claudio Abbado / 1968)

30. CD Verdi: Requiem (Joan Sutherland, Luciano Pavarotti, Wiener Philharmoniker, Georg Solti / 1967)

31. CD Mahler: Symphonie Nr. 2 (London Symphony Orchestra, Georg Solti / 1966)

32. CD Beethoven: Symphonie Nr. 9 (Joan Sutherland, Wiener Philharmoniker, Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt / 1965)

33. CD Britten: Symphonie für Cello & Orchester; Haydn: Cellokonzert (Mstislav Rostropovich, English Chamber Orchestra, Benjamin Britten / 1964)

34. CD Kodaly: Hary Janos; Tänze aus Galanta; Der Pfau; Der Pfau-Variationen (London Symphony Orchestra, Istvan Kertesz / 1964)

35. CD Sibelius: Symphonien Nr. 1 & 4; Karelia-Suite (Wiener Philharmoniker, Lorin Maazel / 1963)

36. CD Mozart: Serenaden KV 361 & 388 (London Wind Soloists / 1962)

37. CD Bruch: Violinkonzert; Hindemith: Violinkonzert (David Oistrach, London Symphony Orchestra, Paul Hindemith, Jascha Horenstein)

38. CD Brahms: Klavierkonzert Nr. 1; Mozart: Klavierkonzert Nr. 27 (Clifford Curzon, London Symphony Orchestra, George Szell / 1962)

39. CD Herold: La File mal gardee; Gounod: Ballettmusik aus Faust (Covent Garden Orchestra, John Lanchberry / 1962)

40. CD Martinu: Etüde für Streicher; Konzert für Pauken & Bläser; Honegger: Symphonie Nr. 2 (Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, Ernest Ansermet / 1961)

41./42. CD Verdi: Otello (Renata Tebaldi, Mario del Monaco, Wiener Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan / 1961)

43.CD J. Strauss II: Geschichten aus 1001 Nacht; Geschichten aus dem Wienerwald; Dorfschwalben aus Österreich; Frühlingsstimmen (Hilde Gueden, Wiener Philharmoniker, Willy Boskovsky, Joseph Krips / 1961)

44.CD Tschaikowsky: Schwanensee (Ausz.); Lecoq: Mamzelle Angot (Concertgebouw Orchestra, Anatole Fistoulari / 1961)

45.CD Rossini: Ouvertüren; Mendelssohn: Violinkonzert op. 64 (Ruggiero Ricci, London Symphony Orchestra, Rumon Gamba / 1960)

46./47.CD Puccini: La Boheme (Renata Tebaldi, Carlo Bergonzi, Accademia di Santa Cecilia Orchestra, Tullio Serafin / 1959)

47.CD Sibelius: Symphonie Nr. 2; Dvorak: Symphonie Nr. 7 (London Symphony Orchestra, Pierre Monteux / 1958)

48.CD Schubert: Symphonien Nr. 8 & 9 (London Symphony Orchestra, Joseph Krips / 1958)

49.CD Tschaikowsky: 1812-Ouvertüre; Capriccio italien; Slawischer Marsch; Rachmaninoff: Klavierkonzert Nr. 2 (Julius Katchen, London Symphony Orchestra, Kenneth Alwyn, Georg Solti / 1958)

51.CD Grieg: Peer Gynt; Klavierkonzert op. 16 (Clifford Curzon, London Symphony Orchestra, Oivin Fjelstad / 1958)

52.CD Ravel: L'Enfant et les sortileges;Ma mere l'oye-Suite (Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, Ernest Ansermet / 1954)

53.CD "Decca's first stereo recordings" - Rimsky-Korssakoff: Antar; Glasunow: Stenka Rasin; Werke von Balakireff & Liadov (Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, Ernest Ansermet / 1947)

54.CD Mono-Version der CD 53

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I like composer based boxes containing music I largely don't have. The EMI Delius box from last year was perfect for me as although there was a fair amount of overlap with music I have already, there was a lot there that has never come out individually.

The other ones I've bought over the last year are the Wellesz and Pfitzner from CPO (actually just the individual CDs in a cardboard box that I promptly binned) and the DG Boulez. And I've just ordered the DG Henze. All music I'm enjoying exploring.

And yet...I can't help thinking that buying the individual discs over time, like I had to do 35 years ago, is the best way to do it. I was so much poorer then...and will be again fairly soon when I retire so I justify it to myself that way.

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I enjoy many classical music box sets because I haven't been collecting classical music until this century and I often have very few of the items in the box so duplication isn't an issue. I like sets of an artist's work for a label, generally a nice sequential listen.

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As I said I have problems with label boxes (and also composer boxes, for the same reasons), but, contrary to what I said on another thread months ago, I do like artist boxes because they give a good picture of their work for a label, all neatly put together in a box. They also save some shelf space compared to the individual CDs :)

Edited by J.A.W.
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I've reached the point in my collection with thousands and thousands of CDs and records, that I have the basics when it comes to composers and works pretty much covered. At this point, my interest is primarily in the differences in performances, particularly conductors who have a very individual personal style. I don't mind having multiple performances of say, Schubert's 9th. Once I've ripped all the CDs and put them in my music server, I can go to town learning about performers. Recently, doing this with the Abbado and Walter boxes showed me things about both conductors that I hadn't realized before.

When a box costs a dollar or two a disk, I'll take a risk and not worry if I love each and every disk in the box. I enjoy casting my net wide.

Some labels actually do have a unique "personality". A box set on Mercury Living Presence or RCA Living Stereo makes sense. A box set on EMI or DGG doesn't really make the same kind of sense.

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problem with box sets are that they almost never are worth buying, no matter for how cheap.. sure, some of them may be Deutsche Grammophone collections of legendary recordings or a renowned solo-artists complete recordings.. but be to be honest, usually you get 10-20 cd's with poor-mediocre performances for a very cheap price just to get a "complete" collection of works.. who needs that ?

no one ! because you never go home and listen to all of them anyway.. just buy the one good album, with a stellar performance that you actually listen to, and build your record collection slowly with jewels instead of quickly with trash.. and if I sound a little bitter it's because I learned it the hard way, and already own hundreds of cd's that are worth less than the disc they're printed on imo : )

and by the way, one shouldn't get so obsessed with owning all of particular composers works (good luck doing that with J.S. Bach for example), it is much more interesting to obtain different editions of the same works you, then finding out which performer/conductor/whatever you like best and why.. this is essentially what classical music is about today

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We've talked a bit about it in the Classical Music Bargains thread. I'm a little on the fence. I have a lot of the best material already. But if the price came down a bit, I might go for it.

Edited by ejp626
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problem with box sets are that they almost never are worth buying, no matter for how cheap.. sure, some of them may be Deutsche Grammophone collections of legendary recordings or a renowned solo-artists complete recordings.. but be to be honest, usually you get 10-20 cd's with poor-mediocre performances for a very cheap price just to get a "complete" collection of works.. who needs that ?

no one ! because you never go home and listen to all of them anyway.. just buy the one good album, with a stellar performance that you actually listen to, and build your record collection slowly with jewels instead of quickly with trash.. and if I sound a little bitter it's because I learned it the hard way, and already own hundreds of cd's that are worth less than the disc they're printed on imo : )

and by the way, one shouldn't get so obsessed with owning all of particular composers works (good luck doing that with J.S. Bach for example), it is much more interesting to obtain different editions of the same works you, then finding out which performer/conductor/whatever you like best and why.. this is essentially what classical music is about today

I'm with you. What you wrote doesn't get posted here often and I think you make an important point. All of the cheap box sets that have appeared in recent years are fine in some ways, but for me at this point in my life, the last thing I need is more "stuff" cluttering up my life. I'd rather have a few recordings that I love to listen to and that I can come to know well than boxes with many recordings that I don't care about much, will hardly ever (or never) listen to, and will just take up valuable space and time in my life.

I know that this is only one side of the story - though it's an important one for me - and that many others here disagree.

And by the way, welcome to the Organissimo Forums. I hope you'll continue to post.

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Um, okay, so you always know in advance which are the best albums and hence can restrict your buying to just those?

But then you're saying it's worth comparing various recordings, too ... and that's one thing which these make rather easy - say my boxes of Heifetz, Rabin, Milstein ... and no, they're definitely not mostly crap either.

Furthermore, there are people who are only getting into classical (I was one of them, a bit more than a year ago) and boxes allow for several things like

- comparing various versions of a piece

- following one artist through various composers works

- discovering stuff you might never have run into looking for THE one great album

Now sure some boxes are better than others (all animals are equal, ya know?), some performers less steady than others, some interpretations more you cup of tea than others ...

Anyway, I'm just not a fan of such absolutist opinions (and the according language). There are boxes I don't need and others I love or am looking forward to getting a lot - obviously it helps if you're starting from scratch and have little or no duplication.

Though what I like most, in fact, is being able to compare stuff ... at the same time by work but also being able to follow one artist and his or her look at various composers and pieces.

No easy way out.

(edited for typo, though there might be more of 'em)

Edited by king ubu
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Um, okay, so you always know in advance which are the best albums and hence can restrict your buying to just those?

But then you're saying it's worth comparing various recordings, too ... and that's one thing which these make rather easy - say my boxes of Heifetz, Rabin, Milstein ... and no, they're definitely not mostly crap either.

Furthermore, there are people who are only getting into classical (I was one of them, a bit more than a year ago) and boxes allow for several things like

- comparing various versions of a piece

- following one artist through various composers works

- discovering stuff you might never have run into looking for THE one great album

Now sure some boxes are better than others (all animals are equal, ya know?), some performers less steady than others, some interpretations more you cup of tea than others ...

Anyway, I'm just not a fan of such absolutist opinions (and the according language). There are boxes I don't need and others I love or am looking forward to getting a lot - obviously it helps if you're starting from scratch and have little or no duplication.

Though what I like most, in fact, is being able to compare stuff ... at the same time by work but also being able to follow one artist and his or her look at various composers and pieces.

No easy way out.

(edited for typo, though there might be more of 'em)

I did say, "I know that this is only one side of the story - though it's an important one for me - and that many others here disagree."

Obviously, you are one who does disagree and you've made that clear with your posts over time. I felt that AvantHard had a point that was worthwhile and hadn't been stated here. I just happened to agree with what AvantHard said. Seems like you took what I wrote personally. It wasn't intended that way.

Edited by paul secor
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I see both sides of the story myself, and fall on the side Flurin delineated. I have only begun collecting classical and so the sets don't create duplication for me, and I really enjoy the well-done artists' sets, they are a fascinating cornucopia of listening for me.

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I can of course see both sides, too ... and other sides and many in-betweens - it was mainly the univocally put opinion in post #10 that prompet my reaction. That's where my "no easy way out" was pointed at.

Now surely not all boxes are of value to all listeners ... some don't like boxes because they lose track of single albums/pieces "lost" or "hidden" in there (and I can relate to that part as far as my jazz listening goes - there are many Mosaics I don't take out of the shelves nearly as often as I should), others might just not be interested in this or that artist (like, I don't feel I need the Reiner box, nor do I need the Van Cliburn box - but again that may change and I may regret having bought some stuff in the future, who knows), and of course you get parts you won't listen to at all, or maybe once only. But then again I really like exposing myself ot unknown stuff, music I might just not have encountered otherwise (or I might have encountered it in some years, who knows). I don't like having too many plans - sure, I make them, but I keep changing them, tumbling them, throwing them out, replacing them by the next one, knowing that won't hold for long ...

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usually you get 10-20 cd's with poor-mediocre performances for a very cheap price just to get a "complete" collection of works.. who needs that ?

and by the way, one shouldn't get so obsessed with owning all of particular composers works (good luck doing that with J.S. Bach for example)

I have the Hannsler Bach edition, and I have yet to find anything in it that qualifies as a "poor-mediocre performance". It's not as hard as you make it out to be.

for me at this point in my life, the last thing I need is more "stuff" cluttering up my life. I'd rather have a few recordings that I love to listen to and that I can come to know well

I don't think it's possible to "clutter up my life" with great music. My dream is to have a new great piece of music to discover every single day. I'm not interested in treading the same path over and over again. I want to see the whole world through great music. We're living in a time when that is finally possible. I intend to take advantage of that.

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My thoughts on duplication is to consider how much duplication and how much I am paying per disk. In a 50 disk set selling for $1.50 a disk, I don't really mind if 5 or 10 are duplicates of things I already have... especially if they are in those replica sleeves. I'll just give away my jewel case version to a friend and have more space on the shelf.

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Um, okay, so you always know in advance which are the best albums and hence can restrict your buying to just those?

well, no.. when I use words like "almost" or "usually", that's pretty much what I mean. You can never know for certain, but you can suspect, and that was my main point. Example:

"hmm.. this 20cd box set of the complete works of X-composer with this unknown performer and orchestra.. considering the 10$ pricetag.. is probably some low-budget recording of mainstream repertoire with the purpose of generating income"

could there be hidden jewels among ? Sure.. but is it likely that this 20$ cd recording with just a few of the same works but with [insert preferred artist] will be more enjoyable for me ? It very well may be.

But don't get me wrong however, if you are just getting into classical music your frame of reference is underdeveloped and most of your attention goes to just getting to know this very different music and its instruments/sounds/color/dynamics. By all means go ahead and buy lots stuff (or, just go to the library!), you do need those "bad" recordings to develop a sense of personal taste. But once you've gotten to know you first bulk of standard repertoire, and you find out that life is to short for sloppy articulation or tacky rubatos, or whatever your subjective preferences might be, then you might want to go about your record shopping in a more critical way.. or not, that's just my opinion.

The classical music industry is so different from other genres, in the way that it's more or less the same music being sold over and over again. And even though every CD is made with the purpose of being sold, there's still a difference between those that value profit, and those with artistic value. This tendency of quantity > quality is mostly noticeable when it comes to box sets, they are usually a good example of is.. but far from always, one of the things I still listen to the most to is my box set of Glenn Gould's complete recordings.

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Example:

"hmm.. this 20cd box set of the complete works of X-composer with this unknown performer and orchestra.. considering the 10$ pricetag.. is probably some low-budget recording of mainstream repertoire with the purpose of generating income"

You haven't looked very closely at these box sets. It isn't like it was in the 60s and 70s. The primary choice performances from the 60s on are now being packaged in these boxes. It isn't no name orchestras, soloists and conductors. It's the top performers of major labels. At this point, just about anything recorded pre-24 bit digital is considered "back catalog". Classical music sales have plummeted, and the way the labels are fighting the slide is by grouping big batches of top recordings together.

Bernstein's 60s symphonies in New York, Munch and Reiner on Living Stereo, Dorati on Mercury Living Presence, Karajan at EMI and DGG... All of these were selling at full price five years ago. Today, you can get them in big boxes for $1.50 or $2 a disk. Plus, they've been remastered wonderfully, so they sound better than the individual release from a few years ago.

Even the $2 MP3 big boxes at Amazon like Rise of the Masters are compiled from first rate recordings... most of them highly rated recordings from BIS that sell for full price on CD.

It's a buyer's market for classical CDs right now, but it isn't going to last. If you are happy with subscription streaming services, then there's no reason to stock up on CDs right now. But I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that in a few years, CDs will be few and far between, just like LPs are today.

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When a box costs a dollar or two a disk, I'll take a risk and not worry if I love each and every disk in the box. I enjoy casting my net wide.

Some labels actually do have a unique "personality". A box set on Mercury Living Presence or RCA Living Stereo makes sense. A box set on EMI or DGG doesn't really make the same kind of sense.

I'm curious what differentiates RCA Living Stereo and Mercury Living Presence from EMI and DGG? The one area that stands out is the former two are audiophile favorite labels from Harry Pearson's talking them up. Is there anything that differentiates them musically and performance wise?

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Thanks AH for your further explanation. I can see your point, but - similar to Bigshot - I can't quite see what boxes you're considering the "bad" ones. If HHeifetz and Arrau and Fournier and Richter and Milstein and Rabin and Gould and Schnabel and whomever have recorded mostly bad stuff, I could easily agree with you, but as to my ears they mostly recorded very good to great stuff (with a dud in between sure), and as you were making the point of comparing (which I really enjoy doing), I still don't quite understand what you're talking of. In youw world, there must be many boxes I'm not familiar with.

I mean, okay, it will take me a while to make my way through the Rubinstein box and what I've heard of his Beethoven sonatas isn't really great - but as I adore Rubinstein and thoroughly enjoy lots of what I've heard of him so far, it's definitely interesting at least to also hear his approach to Beethoven sonatas, no matter if they're great or bad (I'd say they're not bad, but nowhere close to those I really, really enjoy: Schnabel, Kempff, Solomon, Gould, Gulda ...). Similarly, it will take me ages to get through the Furtwängler box and through plenty of others, but really, I don't know what all these bad boxes are supposed to be.

There are however boxes I'm not in the market for, which include those Mercury boxes, as well as the recently announced Erato, Teldec and Das alte Werk boxes .... but not knowing much of what they contain, I just say: they're not of interest to me, the names and pieces included don't pull me in (while I did go for the Baroque box by DG, which again may contain some duds, though honestly I've not heard any "bad" recordings in there so far). There are others, performer based ones, I'm not interested in either - but I'd not call them "bad" just because I'm for instance so far not a big fan of Karajan's (and I can't see that change).

Anyway, there's just too many angles in it all for me to make such simplistic statements as "most boxes are bad because they contain mostly bad stuff". I'd really be interested in you listing a few of those bad ones, just so I can get a closer idea.

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