Is there a list of the Minton's recordings that have been released

[medjuck]

I've just been listening to the Don Byas "Midnight at Minton's"-- a great record. Is there a a list somewhere of all the recordings that were issued of the Minton's sessions and is there any received opinion about who's playing on them? (The Monk Discography I own has him on several numbers where no-one else seems to think it's him.)

Edited September 22, 2013 by medjuck

[marcello]

It doesn't seem there is anything like that that I could find on the Web, but I did find this about Jerry Newman

Edited September 23, 2013 by marcello

[romualdo]

I've just been listening to the Don Byas "Midnight at Minton's"-- a great record. Is there a a list somewhere of all the recordings that were issued of the Minton's sessions and is there any received opinion about who's playing on them? (The Monk Discography I own has him on several numbers where no-one else seems to think it's him.)

Something I'm also very interested in

Robin Kelly's site for his Monk book has his "interpretation" of the Minton's sessions that may have included Monk - there is quite a bit of conjecture re what TM actually plays on (discographies vary on this)

http://www.monkbook.com/sessionography/sessionography-1941/

[medjuck]

Thanks. This all helps though I'm under the impression that Monk doesn't play on any of the sessions with Christian. Doesn't sound like him to me. Does sound like it could be him with Don Byas.

[brownie]

Most authoritative essay I have seen on this was from Chris Sheridan's book on Monk.

The section on the Minton's recordings can be read in the 'Misterioso' chapter:

http://books.google.fr/books/about/Brilliant_Corners.html?id=soVtoCn8pRQC&redir_esc=y

[Al in NYC]

I've always understood that pianist on the Charlie Christian Minton's recordings was Ken Kersey, who was from one of my hometowns, Harrow Ontario (about 25 miles south of Detroit). Certainly many of the oldtimers on the Detroit scene thought that was true, as did Kenny's family, who were well-known around Harrow. The recordings certainly sound more like his uptempo late swing style than they sound like Monk's stride-ish proto-bop work of the time. Kersey came to NYC with the Lucky Millinder Band (a conduit for a lot of Detroit players to NYC) in the late '30s and played as a house pianist all over town for many years into the early '50s.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Al in NYC

[JamesJazz]

Al, these "oldtimers" you speak off, would you please name them? Thanks.

Certainly many of the oldtimers on the Detroit scene thought that was true

[Al in NYC]

I'm talking about the real oldtimers. People who would have been around in my father's time like Billy Mitchell, Terry Pollard, Sunnie Wilson, etc. (my Dad certainly would have known more names, including those who went back into the late '30s when Kersey was around Detroit). But I do vividly remember my Dad playing those Minton sides (he's a huge fan of Charlie Christian) and Dad and his friends talking about Kenny Kersey's playing on them and Kenny coming around Detroit and Windsor with Andy Kirk, Roy Eldridge, Charlie Shavers, etc.

[AllenLowe]

Monk is probably not on the Christian, but he's on a bunch of Jerry Newman things that are incredibly fascinating - in Devilin Tune I excerpt some, I think.

[Christiern]

These are the labels on a 10" aluminum-based acetate (33 ⅓) that was in my catch-all closet. The Tatum side has "Copied 15 ips AME" written on the disc with a marker pencil. The other side has a separate (no joining groove) track recorded at 78tpm and containing what sounds like a radio announcer announcement the impending appearance of the President, who will make an important announcement. It looks like Newman might have decided to cut this later, using the blank space at the end.

I think the Tatum performance was issued (presumably from AME;s 15 ips transfer, but this disc has room conversation preceding the performance. Does anyone here know anything about these recordings?

I should explain that someone—can't recall who—brought me a huge box filled with Newman acetates, when I was at WBAI. I recall transferring all to tape before returning the discs. Don't recall what I did with the tapes or what I was supposed to do with them. Nor do I know how this single disc (obviously one of Newman's originals) got separated and ended up with me. I did not take it knowingly—had I done so, there was a lot of better material in the box.

[jazztrain]

There's some information in "Art Tatum - A Guide to His Recorded Music" by Arnold Laubich and Ray Spencer about the May 7, 1941 recording. They show three sides on that date recorded live by Jerry Mewman at Reuben's, at 242 West 130th Street in New York City. Solo performances by Art Tatum.

Sweet Lorraine (3:01)

Fine And Dandy (4:03)

Begin The Beguine (3:52)

All have been issued. The U.S. issue was Onyx ORI 205 ("God Is in the House").

They have no information about the material on the other side. They show nothing on that date. No versions by Tatum of "Old Man Mose." The only listed version of "When I Grow Too Old to Dream" is from a series of acetates made for Robbins Music Corporation which were transcribed by Morris (Murray) Feldman and published as "Art Tatum Improvisations, No. 1" in 1939, so this is unlikely to be what you have.

I'll take a quick look at the series of Storyville cds to see if it turned up there.

[Christiern]

There's some information in "Art Tatum - A Guide to His Recorded Music" by Arnold Laubich and Ray Spencer about the May 7, 1941 recording. They show three sides on that date recorded live by Jerry Mewman at Reuben's, at 242 West 130th Street in New York City. Solo performances by Art Tatum.

Sweet Lorraine (3:01)

Fine And Dandy (4:03)

Begin The Beguine (3:52)

All have been issued. The U.S. issue was Onyx ORI 205 ("God Is in the House").

They have no information about the material on the other side. They show nothing on that date. No versions by Tatum of "Old Man Mose." The only listed version of "When I Grow Too Old to Dream" is from a series of acetates made for Robbins Music Corporation which were transcribed by Morris (Murray) Feldman and published as "Art Tatum Improvisations, No. 1" in 1939, so this is unlikely to be what you have.

I'll take a quick look at the series of Storyville cds to see if it turned up there.

Thanks, but the other side is not a Tatum performance, so it wouldn't be found under his name. Also, from the looks of it, only the Tatum side was dubbed to tape by "AME," I wonder who that might be? I know that Doug Pomery worked on some of these. but I believe he said he was working from tapes rather then discs.

[Chuck Nessa]

Sadly the Newman masters are scattered amongst a few "nutso collector types" and a comprehensive master list will never be completed because the "owners" all think they are sitting on a gold mine and don't want to give away their position.

[Christiern]

Sadly the Newman masters are scattered amongst a few "nutso collector types" and a comprehensive master list will never be completed because the "owners" all think they are sitting on a gold mine and don't want to give away their position.

I wonder how they got scattered.

[Fer Urbina]

Sadly the Newman masters are scattered amongst a few "nutso collector types" and a comprehensive master list will never be completed because the "owners" all think they are sitting on a gold mine and don't want to give away their position.

The late Peter Broadbent seemed to have (from what he said on the second edition of his Charlie Christian bio) the acetate of the famous "Topsy" (a/k/a "Swing to Bop", a/k/a "Charlie's Choice"), but as far as I know he sold it before he died.

Also, Jerry Newman seems to have been pretty busy on May 8, 1941. The "Stompin' at the Savoy" from Minton's (with Charlie Christian et al) only released on Volume 9 of the Masters of Jazz CD series is also from that date.

F

Edited December 9, 2013 by Fer Urbina

[Chuck Nessa]

Sadly the Newman masters are scattered amongst a few "nutso collector types" and a comprehensive master list will never be completed because the "owners" all think they are sitting on a gold mine and don't want to give away their position.

I wonder how they got scattered.

You know some of the "nusto collector types" I mentioned. As far as I can tell, they feud amongst themselves.

[jazztrain]

Silly me. In the few moments I had earlier to look into the Tatum material, I failed to notice that the other side wasn't a Tatum item.

For what it's worth, some initial searching failed to turn up anything regarding the Gee Haww Club. "Gee" and "Haw" are, of course, directional voice commands for horses and that's likely the source of the club's name. A bit more searching turned up a mention of Johnny Bradford's "Gee Haw" Club in the November 15, 1941 issue of the Pittsburgh Courier, so the spelling on the acetate label is probably in error.

There was a pianist (and bassist) Nick Aldrich who played around New York in the 1930s and 1940s before he moved to Montreal. It's likely that this is the pianist on the non-Tatum item. There are some references on line to him playing in a "tramp band" and there's a video of The Tramp Band, with Nick Aldrich on piano, playing "Hit That Jive Jack." You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rDtnqQ3yCU

As far as the identify of AME, I have no clue.

There's some information in "Art Tatum - A Guide to His Recorded Music" by Arnold Laubich and Ray Spencer about the May 7, 1941 recording. They show three sides on that date recorded live by Jerry Mewman at Reuben's, at 242 West 130th Street in New York City. Solo performances by Art Tatum.

Sweet Lorraine (3:01)

Fine And Dandy (4:03)

Begin The Beguine (3:52)

All have been issued. The U.S. issue was Onyx ORI 205 ("God Is in the House").

They have no information about the material on the other side. They show nothing on that date. No versions by Tatum of "Old Man Mose." The only listed version of "When I Grow Too Old to Dream" is from a series of acetates made for Robbins Music Corporation which were transcribed by Morris (Murray) Feldman and published as "Art Tatum Improvisations, No. 1" in 1939, so this is unlikely to be what you have.

I'll take a quick look at the series of Storyville cds to see if it turned up there.

Thanks, but the other side is not a Tatum performance, so it wouldn't be found under his name. Also, from the looks of it, only the Tatum side was dubbed to tape by "AME," I wonder who that might be? I know that Doug Pomery worked on some of these. but I believe he said he was working from tapes rather then discs.

Edited December 9, 2013 by jazztrain

[JSngry]

There was a pianist (and bassist) Nick Aldrich who played around New York in the 1930s and 1940s before he moved to Montreal. It's likely that this is the pianist on the non-Tatum item. There are some references on line to him playing in a "tramp band" and there's a video of The Tramp Band, with Nick Aldrich on piano, playing "Hit That Jive Jack." You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rDtnqQ3yCU

Is that the Joe Carroll?

[jazztrain]

It would seem so. The Tramp Band also appears in Stormy Weather (1943). Some sources (see Scott Yanow, for example, here: http://books.google.com/books?id=Xs_8j7s8xdoC&pg=PA172&lpg=PA172&dq=joe+carroll,+stormy+weather&source=bl&ots=wCcnKzQEbS&sig=voH_wwyZ_fuQJzbq4rUj-ps1D6M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=juGlUsXGMIjUrQGkpoD4BQ&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=joe%20carroll%2C%20stormy%20weather&f=false) refer to Carroll having a small role in Stormy Weather.

There was a pianist (and bassist) Nick Aldrich who played around New York in the 1930s and 1940s before he moved to Montreal. It's likely that this is the pianist on the non-Tatum item. There are some references on line to him playing in a "tramp band" and there's a video of The Tramp Band, with Nick Aldrich on piano, playing "Hit That Jive Jack." You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rDtnqQ3yCU

Is that the Joe Carroll?