BFT#115 Discussion Thread

[felser]

Sorry about some ID tags showing, they are a demonstration of my ignorance, I took off what I saw in Windows Media Player. Looking forward to your feedback on the music. I'm more into sharing some things I really like that you may not have heard as opposed to stumping the experts ( you guys tend to be awesome at identifying the material in these BFT's). Hope you enjoy some of the music on this one, and hear something new that you like.

[Hot Ptah]

John, the tags did not show up on my car stereo, which sometimes will give the artist and song title on a small graphic display.. This is an excellent BFT for listening enjoyment. I do not recognize any of the songs or artists on first listen (surprise, surprise for me), but will keep listening and give my impressions soon.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Tried this in Winamp, but I could still see some of the tags.

1 Sounds like imitation African music. Not the truth of Africa. Sorry. Too American/European for me.

2 This is nice. I know who it is, 'cos I've seen the tag, and it’s someone I’ve never paid much attention to, though I have quite a few albums with him on it. I can hear quite clearly that I’ve made a mistake in not getting any of this guy’s own albums. Think I might start a thread looking for recommendations.

Thanks for this.

3 Good band. Tune I feel I know. But I can’t really feel too involved in it

4 This one’s not for me.

5 Very Pharoah Sanders feel about this one. Or perhaps it’s really a Trane feel that Pharoah picked up and used a lot. I know who the drummer is but not the sidemen. The trumpet player sounds like Freddie Hubbard, but I think I’m wrong about that. Perhaps it’s Woody Shaw. The alto player sounds a bit too much like Jackie McLean for my taste.

Oh yes, as it moves on, bits of ‘My favourite things’ keep popping in for a quick beer.

6 Another tune that sounds – oh, it’s ‘Infant eyes’. Well, even Charles Earland’s version of this never really got me, so I’m insufficiently interested to know who this is.

7 No tags on this. Someone playing like Elvin Jones. Oh well, there are so many… And someone playing like McCoy Tyner… ditto. Well, where’s the tenor player playing like Trane?... Oh, he stepped out for a quick cough and a drag. Well, I can’t say I value this stuff.

8 Seventeen minutes, so it ain’t Booker T & the MGs. This is a quite exciting theme. With a nice pianist. Trumpet player has nice ideas and maintains the feel nicely. Not someone I recognise. He might even be the leader, who’s identified in the tag, but I’ve never heard of him, so I've no idea. This is someone I might be interested in hearing occasionally, when I need to – not very often. It was exciting until the slow part, where the trumpet player was given (or asked for) some of Donald Byrd’s Mizell echo. Oh well. In comes a hot alto player. But I don’t really like him much. Yeah, this is jazz as it’s supposed to be – hot and exciting – but… The ideas are there, the energy’s there… Oh here comes the pianist, but he’s on electric piano and he was so effective on acoustic behind the horns. Shame. Electric piano’s not a patch on the percussive qualities of a real one and he’s a percussive pianist. You can hear him trying to be as percussive and it don’t work. But the electric has a much faster response time than a real piano, so for his style, it’s gotta be an option. Now we’re on the drum solo; I’ll skip the rest of this cut.

9 Oh, here’s one I’ve got. It’s Pharoah, and it’s from ‘Journey to the one’, which I was playing a couple of weeks ago. See, that’s how to use a synth. Oh, it’s not from ‘Journey to the one’. Well, it’s still Pharoah. And Bill Henderson.

Just looked at the tags. Bollocks! I’ve got this one, too. Covered with embarrassment

Actually, that was pretty interesting. I don't mind that I didn't like a lot of it. I'm not supposed to like everything Thanks.

MG

[felser]

Tried this in Winamp, but I could still see some of the tags.

1 Sounds like imitation African music. Not the truth of Africa. Sorry. Too American/European for me.

This one is a product of time and place. I think it does what it wants to do, but that won't be everyone's cup of tea.

2 This is nice. I know who it is, 'cos I've seen the tag, and it’s someone I’ve never paid much attention to, though I have quite a few albums with him on it. I can hear quite clearly that I’ve made a mistake in not getting any of this guy’s own albums. Think I might start a thread looking for recommendations.

Thanks for this.

You're welcome! This was one I was very excited to share. More on it in the reveal.

3 Good band. Tune I feel I know. But I can’t really feel too involved in it

4 This one’s not for me.

5 Very Pharoah Sanders feel about this one. Or perhaps it’s really a Trane feel that Pharoah picked up and used a lot. I know who the drummer is but not the sidemen. The trumpet player sounds like Freddie Hubbard, but I think I’m wrong about that. Perhaps it’s Woody Shaw. The alto player sounds a bit too much like Jackie McLean for my taste.

Not Hubbard, Shaw, or McLean.

Oh yes, as it moves on, bits of ‘My favourite things’ keep popping in for a quick beer.

6 Another tune that sounds – oh, it’s ‘Infant eyes’. Well, even Charles Earland’s version of this never really got me, so I’m insufficiently interested to know who this is.

7 No tags on this. Someone playing like Elvin Jones. Oh well, there are so many… And someone playing like McCoy Tyner… ditto. Well, where’s the tenor player playing like Trane?... Oh, he stepped out for a quick cough and a drag. Well, I can’t say I value this stuff.

I think 8 and 9 are reversed on your feedback?

8 Seventeen minutes, so it ain’t Booker T & the MGs. This is a quite exciting theme. With a nice pianist. Trumpet player has nice ideas and maintains the feel nicely. Not someone I recognise. He might even be the leader, who’s identified in the tag, but I’ve never heard of him, so I've no idea. This is someone I might be interested in hearing occasionally, when I need to – not very often. It was exciting until the slow part, where the trumpet player was given (or asked for) some of Donald Byrd’s Mizell echo. Oh well. In comes a hot alto player. But I don’t really like him much. Yeah, this is jazz as it’s supposed to be – hot and exciting – but… The ideas are there, the energy’s there… Oh here comes the pianist, but he’s on electric piano and he was so effective on acoustic behind the horns. Shame. Electric piano’s not a patch on the percussive qualities of a real one and he’s a percussive pianist. You can hear him trying to be as percussive and it don’t work. But the electric has a much faster response time than a real piano, so for his style, it’s gotta be an option. Now we’re on the drum solo; I’ll skip the rest of this cut.

GREAT bass solo out of the drum solo.

9 Oh, here’s one I’ve got. It’s Pharoah, and it’s from ‘Journey to the one’, which I was playing a couple of weeks ago. See, that’s how to use a synth. Oh, it’s not from ‘Journey to the one’. Well, it’s still Pharoah. And Bill Henderson.

Just looked at the tags. Bollocks! I’ve got this one, too. Covered with embarrassment

Actually, that was pretty interesting. I don't mind that I didn't like a lot of it. I'm not supposed to like everything Thanks.

MG

Thanks so much! I sense we have some different tastes, but I appreciate your willingness to interact with the cuts, and am glad that #2 was of value to you!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I think 8 and 9 are reversed on your feedback?

Now we’re on the drum solo; I’ll skip the rest of this cut.

GREAT bass solo out of the drum solo.

Well, I was intrigued by that comment so I opened up the folder again and, this time, it was the last track #9 that was 17 minutes, But the other day, 8 and 9 came out the way I wrote them. That's because I opened them today in Windows Media player, not Winamp.

I just looked at all your tags. First problem - for Thom mainly - was that you ripped them as .wma files, not as mp3s. This is an option you can set in Windows Media player, I think.

Second, if you do a compilation, you need to alter the track numbers, because you get the track numbers from your original CD. So, both #8 and #9 were track 5 on their original albums. So the two different bits of software choose which track 5 to play first by using different criteria, I guess. Hence the confusion.

So, I picked up the track on the drum solo, after seeing what you said. And actually, it's a damn good drum solo and I'm sorry I missed it the other day. And, yes, the bass solo is a BLAST! I kept seeing this mad giant, holding the double bass like a guitar, Chuck Berry style, doing the duckwalk across the stage. I've heard someone playing like that many years ago, but can't remember who it was; though I'm pretty sure it was on an avant garde album. I enjoyed that and the final tag so much I listened to it all again. And liked it much better than the first time - as with Julia Lee and her spinach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax4tVzuN52U

MG

[felser]

Glad you enjoyed it! I'll try to learn better what I'm doing with tags, etc. before I do another one of these - rookie mistake (Merkle, Fred, etc.).

[Hot Ptah]

I have listened to this BFT many times in the past two weeks, without viewing the apparently visible tags. The tags are not visible on what I have to play the BFT on.

This BFT really makes me think about the nature of BFTs. When I have done a BFT, I try to make it as wildly diverse as possible--a 1920s performance, a Latin jazz track, an avant garde blowout, a jazz/rock fusion piece, a klezmer/jazz mixture, etc. That is only one possibility for how to approach the BFT.

This BFT takes a much different approach. I do not know that all of the music is from the 1970s, but it sounds to me like it all could be 1970s post-bop. It is a great listening experience in that style.

One more listen and I will give my impressions.

[felser]

About half are from the 70's. Some of the others are before, some are after. Glad you are enjoying it! I wanted to share stuff that has been meaningful to me for different reasons, which I'll make clear in the reveal, and to try to make a listening experience with a decent flow to it.

Edited October 11, 2013 by felser

[tkeith]

I actually got to this one quite early, but didn't finish until this morning. I need to retire so I can focus on BFTs. Think my wife will buy that argument? Given that it's 7:41 AM and she's working here at home on a Saturday, I think I'll maybe broach the subject another time.

I haven't looked at the thread, yet -- I'll go do that now.

Track 01 - Sounds like one of Mtume's bands. Ah, no, wait... it's Track 1 from this. The Blackfire catalog was sort of a discovery to me a few year's back. I still rank Doug Carn near the top of this sub genre, but really enjoyed the majority of it. What can I say? Part of my has always wanted a red-on-white-in-white Cadillac convertible. Good starter.

Track 02 - Not entirely certain what this is, but sounds like another of the Black consciousness era bands, which is to say, I love it. The tenor is a boss, bold, voice. Very post-Coltrane, but done right. I want this. No confidence in guesses, but something very familiar about that tenor. Almost said early Ari Brown, but doesn't quite have the "meanness" that I associate with AB.

Track 03 - Something has me leaning towards Sonny Fortune, but I seem to like it more than I would if it were him. It's got that very hipnotic, LA 1970s feel (read; Tapscott). This is very nice. I could deal with a whole lot of this. Perhaps something by Adele Sebastian that I'm not familiar with?

Track 04 - All that was hitting about the last one seems less in attendance here. It sounds like it's *trying* to be like that music. The hyper-compressed drums are a big part of the issue. I assume this is the drummer's record. It's a modern, conservatory tenor. Has that accomplished sound that frustrates me because there is nothing individual about it. Even his Coltrane-isms are blatant thievery (the Like Sonny quote). Could be John Hicks on piano on an off day, but I don't think he had those... ever. This one just isn't resonating with me. Outside chance that the tenor is Eric Alexander, but to me, he doesn't have that beautiful tone EA gets.

Track 05 - Oh no you don't. That's MY song! Stanley Cowell's great tune Effi from this. Easily one of my all-time favorite recordings and a top five favorite song. Infinite thanks to Webbcity for introducing the chart to me. My only regret is that he ever wants to play any other tune. Simply awesome, and IMHO, THE standard for the Black consciousness sub genre within Jazz. I'm sensing a theme and I think I love it. Hey Tim! Jymmie Merritt is THE exception to my electric bass rule.

Track 06 - Great re-telling of Wayne Shorter's Infant Eyes. Beautifully done, by someone who can *really* sing! Although, as it goes on, she goes into a really wonky area... doesn't *quite* work, but still, some amazing vocal control when she sticks to this tough melody.

Track 07 - This reminds me a lot of a Sonny Rollins/Larry Coryell duet called The File, but it's not that. Unless my earbuds are failing me, this is a piano/drums duet. Somebody very much out of the McCoy Tyner school.

Track 08 - That's my guy Harold Vick with some insulting synth. Nonetheless, he is VICK! It's Track 5 from this. Not sure why she opted for that sound on this song, but even though it survives, it would be healthier without it. Vick was such a discovery for me when I got to him. He was that missing link between say, Hank Mobley, and all those post-Coltrane guys. I had him on a few records, but always as a section horn. I'm glad I finally got to him because I think he's an important voice in the timeline of the music.

Track 09 - Sounds like Woody Shaw, but given this is a BFT, I'll assume that's an act of subterfuge and guess that it's Terumasa Hino. That's certainly Sonny Fortune (or is it the Japanese equivalent?). Oddly, my favorite bassist is Cecil McBee, especially his sound. One of my least favorite bassists is Stafford James, ONLY because of his sound. Oddly, on BFTs, I frequently guess one for the other. This sounds like Stafford to me, which means it's probably Cecil.

Some great stuff in here! My only sadness is that I already have so much of it. Thanks for the BFT!

[tkeith]

I just want to add on that I never saw tags. I typically listen in iTunes, but even when I loaded the files into Switch, there were no tags. I know from using Audition that there are different versions of tags and I bet that has something to do with it (some software uses different versions, so when you "scrub" the tags, it doesn't get all of them.

On a prior test I had the same issue and I always rename all ID3 tags in iTunes (Once I have my song order, I'll change the title of the album to BFT #XXX, change the artist, etc.). Even if it's a tag that I don't always use (e.g.-- composer), I'll selected it, enter a character, then delete it (so long as I'm editing all tracks at once, that seems to work). I've even gone so far as to change the artwork. Not sure how foolproof it actually is, but it seems to work.

I'm confused by the "Pharoah" ID, because numerically, I *know* I got track 8 right.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I'm confused by the "Pharoah" ID, because numerically, I *know* I got track 8 right.

Yes, I know you got 8 (my 9) right. I mis-recognised it. (Is that a word? Well, it is now.) When I looked at the tags, I realised I'd completely bollixed it up. But I didn't change what I'd said.

MG

[felser]

I actually got to this one quite early, but didn't finish until this morning. I need to retire so I can focus on BFTs. Think my wife will buy that argument? Given that it's 7:41 AM and she's working here at home on a Saturday, I think I'll maybe broach the subject another time.

I haven't looked at the thread, yet -- I'll go do that now.

Track 01 - Sounds like one of Mtume's bands. Ah, no, wait... it's Track 1 from this. The Blackfire catalog was sort of a discovery to me a few year's back. I still rank Doug Carn near the top of this sub genre, but really enjoyed the majority of it. What can I say? Part of my has always wanted a red-on-white-in-white Cadillac convertible. Good starter.

You got it! And I know Stefan also has it ID'd, Knew that some people would get this.

Track 02 - Not entirely certain what this is, but sounds like another of the Black consciousness era bands, which is to say, I love it. The tenor is a boss, bold, voice. Very post-Coltrane, but done right. I want this. No confidence in guesses, but something very familiar about that tenor. Almost said early Ari Brown, but doesn't quite have the "meanness" that I associate with AB.

Not Ari Brown. This one may surprise some people.

Track 03 - Something has me leaning towards Sonny Fortune, but I seem to like it more than I would if it were him. It's got that very hipnotic, LA 1970s feel (read; Tapscott). This is very nice. I could deal with a whole lot of this. Perhaps something by Adele Sebastian that I'm not familiar with?

Not Fortune or Sebastian or Tapscott-related.

Track 04 - All that was hitting about the last one seems less in attendance here. It sounds like it's *trying* to be like that music. The hyper-compressed drums are a big part of the issue. I assume this is the drummer's record. It's a modern, conservatory tenor. Has that accomplished sound that frustrates me because there is nothing individual about it. Even his Coltrane-isms are blatant thievery (the Like Sonny quote). Could be John Hicks on piano on an off day, but I don't think he had those... ever. This one just isn't resonating with me. Outside chance that the tenor is Eric Alexander, but to me, he doesn't have that beautiful tone EA gets.

Not Hicks or Alexander. Not the drummer's records. The most interesting story in the whole BFT reveal will involve this one.

Track 05 - Oh no you don't. That's MY song! Stanley Cowell's great tune Effi from this. Easily one of my all-time favorite recordings and a top five favorite song. Infinite thanks to Webbcity for introducing the chart to me. My only regret is that he ever wants to play any other tune. Simply awesome, and IMHO, THE standard for the Black consciousness sub genre within Jazz. I'm sensing a theme and I think I love it. Hey Tim! Jymmie Merritt is THE exception to my electric bass rule.

#1 on my all-time most-played list and the recording I use to "introduce" people to jazz. Knew some would get it, but had to share it for those who don't know it, and as a statement.

Track 06 - Great re-telling of Wayne Shorter's Infant Eyes. Beautifully done, by someone who can *really* sing! Although, as it goes on, she goes into a really wonky area... doesn't *quite* work, but still, some amazing vocal control when she sticks to this tough melody.

Many may find the vocalist identity interesting.

Track 07 - This reminds me a lot of a Sonny Rollins/Larry Coryell duet called The File, but it's not that. Unless my earbuds are failing me, this is a piano/drums duet. Somebody very much out of the McCoy Tyner school.

Yes, piano/drums. That was a very big school 40 years ago.

Track 08 - That's my guy Harold Vick with some insulting synth. Nonetheless, he is VICK! It's Track 5 from this. Not sure why she opted for that sound on this song, but even though it survives, it would be healthier without it. Vick was such a discovery for me when I got to him. He was that missing link between say, Hank Mobley, and all those post-Coltrane guys. I had him on a few records, but always as a section horn. I'm glad I finally got to him because I think he's an important voice in the timeline of the music.

You got it. Have never seen this on CD, so wasn't sure how familiar people would be with it.

Track 09 - Sounds like Woody Shaw, but given this is a BFT, I'll assume that's an act of subterfuge and guess that it's Terumasa Hino. That's certainly Sonny Fortune (or is it the Japanese equivalent?). Oddly, my favorite bassist is Cecil McBee, especially his sound. One of my least favorite bassists is Stafford James, ONLY because of his sound. Oddly, on BFTs, I frequently guess one for the other. This sounds like Stafford to me, which means it's probably Cecil.

Not Shaw, Hino, James, or McBee. But that is Sonny Fortune.

Some great stuff in here! My only sadness is that I already have so much of it. Thanks for the BFT!

Thank you so much for your thoughts and encouragement!

[Stefan Wood]

Regarding Track 2 -- a crazy thought came to me. Anita Baker? Although it will end up being someone like Abbey Lincoln.....

Track 3 -- Hal Galper?

Edited October 12, 2013 by Stefan Wood

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Regarding Track 2 -- a crazy thought came to me. Anita Baker? Although it will end up being someone like Abbey Lincoln.....

Track 3 -- Hal Galper?

I think you've got the same problem as I had - tracks coming out in a different order.

MG

[tkeith]

I'm confused by the "Pharoah" ID, because numerically, I *know* I got track 8 right.

Yes, I know you got 8 (my 9) right. I mis-recognised it. (Is that a word? Well, it is now.) When I looked at the tags, I realised I'd completely bollixed it up. But I didn't change what I'd said.

MG

*Phew*. I thought I'd slipped into Rod Sterling's world for a moment.

[felser]

Tracks

1 - "african" thing already ID'd

2 - tenor sax

3 - flute

4 - fast vocal

5 - quintet thing already ID'd

6 - "infant Eyes" vocal

7 - piano/drums duet

8 - organ/tenor already ID'd

9 - 17 minute thing

[Hot Ptah]

Here are my thoughts on this most enjoyable BFT.

1. I like this a lot. I have peeked at the identification by another member. I would never have guessed it. While I was listening to a lot of new jazz in the 1970s, this one passed me by. The energy and rhythms make this a really good BFT opener.

2. I do not know who the tenor sax player is, but he is really good. He has taken in the John Coltrane influence without having it dominate his approach. Certain common Coltrane devices pop out, but he has an original voice overall. Every time I guess Azar Lawrence in any BFT it is wrong, but I will guess Azar again here.

3. This flute player is excellent, and he or she is not any of the most famous name flute players. Joe Farrell comes to mind as someone who played somewhat in this style, but I think this flute player is playing something more challenging than anything Joe recorded on flute, to my knowledge. I want to know who this is!

4. I don't like some jazz vocals much, but I like this one. It is compelling and the lyrics are good. I have no idea who it is, but this is really good.

5. I would not have guessed Max Roach here. I thought the drumming sounded somewhat like Elvin Jones! That would be a major Blindfold Test gaffe if I was a famous musician and said that in a Down Beat Blindfold Test. This is excellent.

6. This is also a very compelling jazz vocal. The vocalist sounds somewhat like Dee Dee Bridgewater when I saw her live about five years ago with a group from Mali. Whoever it is, she does a really nice job with this song.

7. The pianist has studied McCoy Tyner intently. If I had to guess, I would say a young John Hicks, near the beginning of his recording career as a leader. I do not know who the drummer is.

8. I peeked at the Identification by another member. I did not know this album at all. I am very glad to have been introduced to it by this BFT.

9. This track is maddening, because I keep thinking I know who the musicians are, but I can't quite identify them. The bassist sounds like Stanley Clarke at times. There were some CTI full side recordings like this in the early 1970s. I just don't know who it is, but I really like the energy and inspired soloing on this track. I can't wait to find out who it is!

Great BFT, John, very enjoyable listening, and everything just obscure enough to make it difficult to identify.

[felser]

Here are my thoughts on this most enjoyable BFT.

1. I like this a lot. I have peeked at the identification by another member. I would never have guessed it. While I was listening to a lot of new jazz in the 1970s, this one passed me by. The energy and rhythms make this a really good BFT opener.

Thanks, I also thought it would be a good opener-mood setter.

2. I do not know who the tenor sax player is, but he is really good. He has taken in the John Coltrane influence without having it dominate his approach. Certain common Coltrane devices pop out, but he has an original voice overall. Every time I guess Azar Lawrence in any BFT it is wrong, but I will guess Azar again here.

Not Azar Lawrence. This one will surprise a lot of people.

3. This flute player is excellent, and he or she is not any of the most famous name flute players. Joe Farrell comes to mind as someone who played somewhat in this style, but I think this flute player is playing something more challenging than anything Joe recorded on flute, to my knowledge. I want to know who this is!

I was really glad to share this one on my BFT. It was the cut that was least in doubt for me as far as including it or not. Not Farrell.

4. I don't like some jazz vocals much, but I like this one. It is compelling and the lyrics are good. I have no idea who it is, but this is really good.

Yes, the lyrics are very good, and written by the singer.

5. I would not have guessed Max Roach here. I thought the drumming sounded somewhat like Elvin Jones! That would be a major Blindfold Test gaffe if I was a famous musician and said that in a Down Beat Blindfold Test. This is excellent.

Yeah, I love this one! Knew it would be identified, but had to share it in case some people weren't familiar with it.

6. This is also a very compelling jazz vocal. The vocalist sounds somewhat like Dee Dee Bridgewater when I saw her live about five years ago with a group from Mali. Whoever it is, she does a really nice job with this song.

Not Bridgewater. Should be interesting for people when ID'd.

7. The pianist has studied McCoy Tyner intently. If I had to guess, I would say a young John Hicks, near the beginning of his recording career as a leader. I do not know who the drummer is.

Not Hicks, but that's a really good guess.

8. I peeked at the Identification by another member. I did not know this album at all. I am very glad to have been introduced to it by this BFT.

Glad to share it. A shame it isn't more widely available.

9. This track is maddening, because I keep thinking I know who the musicians are, but I can't quite identify them. The bassist sounds like Stanley Clarke at times. There were some CTI full side recordings like this in the early 1970s. I just don't know who it is, but I really like the energy and inspired soloing on this track. I can't wait to find out who it is!

Not Clarke, but he would be my guess also if I didn't know. Not CTI. I wore this one out back in the day.

Great BFT, John, very enjoyable listening, and everything just obscure enough to make it difficult to identify.

Bill, your help and encouragement toward this BFT have been invaluable to me, thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed it and discovered some good new music through it. Those were two of my goals. The third is to share a little of myself by sharing music that means a lot to me.

[randyhersom]

I can't resist lurking in these threads though haven't had time to participate fully in a while. I believe I have figured out #9 from the comments. You might discover the answer if you go back to the beginning.

[felser]

I can't resist lurking in these threads though haven't had time to participate fully in a while. I believe I have figured out #9 from the comments. You might discover the answer if you go back to the beginning.

Indeed you might

[JSngry]

Kinda late to the game here...been watching the games! Anyway, full thanks and stipulations firmly in place, Let's go!

TRACK ONE - Digging this, especially when listening from the bottom up, and how it all revolves around that. But what is the bottom revolving around? That's the question! Maybe not Africa, but maybe this: http://www.columbia1968.com/james-_plunky_branch/

TRACK TWO - Well now, I remember this one! This guy's best album, imo. For the composer, from this to "Juicy Fruit"...oh my... but have some fun with all this! http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_did_the_Romans_change_alkebulan_to_Africa

TRACK THREE - Do not know this one at all...whoever the drummer is, they've got my attention with that cymbal work, great touch! Otherwise, nobody really sounds like a "GREAT player" but - they all play together every step of the way. There's a singularity of purpose (and pocket) there that really reaches me. I'd rather hear a group gel like this than a bunch of "GREAT players" just show up and be "GREAT players" and never really define any purpose other than being "GREAT players". Not that there's any slouches here, quite the opposite. But the group vibe is what's reaching me here, and you have to be a great SPIRIT to play for and with the group like this (c.f. Baby Dodds' "Playing For The Benefit Of The Band").

TRACK FOUR - Don't know this one either...sounds like McCoy on piano, but the lyrics remind me of Horace Silver. Not really feeling the singer that much (or the lyrics after the second time around.... That's not John Stubblefield on tenor is it? Or if it's a McCoy Band, Joe Ford? But the longer this goes on, the less it feels like McCoy, no matter how much it might sound like him. So...I'm stumped. Maybe Azar Lawrence once moved to L.A. Or not...There's a tinge of, for lack of a better term, "post-Brecker" rhythmic ya-ya in the tenor that for me takes away a lot of really good other things...Maybe this is Courtney Pine or some other non-U.S. players? Sometimes that's not really relevant to anything, but for this, something's creating a "distance" for me that I'd just as soon not be there...although why, exactly, I couldn't tell you. But something, some very little but palpable thing, is missing, even if a lot of other good stuff is there.

TRACK FIVE - OH FUCK YEAH!!! Best cut off one of the best records ever. This record and Unity (and a small handful of others, but especially those two) got me through a very character-defining period of my young-adult life with head held high and integrity intact. One should never forget people, places or things that bless you with that.

TRACK SIX - Jean Carne spoiled me for anyone else doing this one. This singer's good enough (although a few moments of pitch-unfortunateness are kinda hard to be undistracted by), but....this is one of those tunes that you either define it on your own terms or else it's best you leave it alone. And the tempo's just a touch too fast for my liking. Maybe that's out of necessity, but still...

TRACK SEVEN - Like this one a lot. No idea who it is, but that pianist's left hand is very nice, not at all dissimilar in concept to Earl Hines', even if the vocabulary is different. Putting the style of playing (all those fourths and pentatonics) together with the recording quality narrows it down somewhat, but not enough for me to hazard guess, but this is really there for me in terms of just throwing it all out there and not leaving anything behind. Some folks got more to throw that with than others but it feels the same no matter who does it, at least at some kind of level. These two have a pretty fair amount to throw, and it gets thrown! Part of me wants to say early Chick Corea, but the right hand is just a little looser than was Chick's wont, I'm thinking.

TRACK EIGHT - The unmistakeable sound of Harold Vick! And Shirley Scott. What a great record this is! I remember hearing about it for many, many years before actually finding it. A lot of times when that happens, you've either hyped yourself into liking it no matter what, or else over-hyped yourself and it falls flat for no good reason. Not this one, and a big part of that was Harold Vick. His sound is such an organic thing, how it works perfectly with his fingers, sometimes you'll hear a little pause between brain and fingers, just a little micro second, but he's such a true player that he uses his sound, not to hide that, but to go ahead and make that a part of his statement, like, yeah, I needed to think for a second about this, but so what, doesn't everybody? That, and he, like Yusef Lateef, has a deep understanding of how the tenor speaks, what makes it a tenor and not an alto, or a trumpet, or a piano, or a sheet of score paper. No dammit, Harold Vick plays tenor! Listen to how the volume and inflection within his lines are always variating, just like he's talking to you, not reciting, but talking, spontaneously. And ok, Shirley Scott made a lot of records and never had a STAR thing like Jimmy Smith, and that ain't no ways right. And this one is probably the jewel of them all, but even at that, HAROLD VICK!

TRACK NINE - Well, there's an "under-rated" player for you, this trumpeter. I got this album on Inner City, and reading between the not too narrow lines, it appears that there was some wrangling involved for his to get his tapes (or at least his rights to them), back from Strata-East (or perhaps more specifically, Charles Tolliver). So much for the Perpetual Utopia of artist-owned labels...but still, geez, do people still make records like this unless they're trying to sound like records like this? In which case, no, please don't bother, because that was then, they were them, this is now, and no matter how much you might identify with them, you are not them. And Sonny Fortune can still play his ass off, as they say. Also on this record, one of Dee Dee Bridgewater's superb early recorded moments. Between this record and her work with Heiner Stadler, no matter what she does today, I always have those in mind and know that even if she has totally lost her mind (and I don't think she has, not totally), it was a very good mind, so, hey, context, please, and all that. And oh yeah, ok, Alex Blake, still doing this with Randy Weston. That seems as it should be.

In conclusion, a few things hit the spot a little less than others, but none truly missed the mark. Most of these selections speak to me in a "I was there" sense the way that 60s (or 50s, or 40s, etc.) musics speak to others. A very enjoyable listen. Thanks much!

[felser]

Kinda late to the game here...been watching the games! Anyway, full thanks and stipulations firmly in place, Let's go!

TRACK ONE - Digging this, especially when listening from the bottom up, and how it all revolves around that. But what is the bottom revolving around? That's the question! Maybe not Africa, but maybe this: http://www.columbia1968.com/james-_plunky_branch/

That is a fascinating read, thanks!

TRACK TWO - Well now, I remember this one! This guy's best album, imo. For the composer, from this to "Juicy Fruit"...oh my... but have some fun with all this! http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_did_the_Romans_change_alkebulan_to_Africa

That album and the next couple are wonderful outliers in his catalog. He immediately went back to much more conservative territiory, which was a huge disapppointment to me.

TRACK THREE - Do not know this one at all...whoever the drummer is, they've got my attention with that cymbal work, great touch! Otherwise, nobody really sounds like a "GREAT player" but - they all play together every step of the way. There's a singularity of purpose (and pocket) there that really reaches me. I'd rather hear a group gel like this than a bunch of "GREAT players" just show up and be "GREAT players" and never really define any purpose other than being "GREAT players". Not that there's any slouches here, quite the opposite. But the group vibe is what's reaching me here, and you have to be a great SPIRIT to play for and with the group like this (c.f. Baby Dodds' "Playing For The Benefit Of The Band").

The drummer ended up being the best known by far from this group, but wasn't at the time. He's fabulous, as the jazz world would find out a couple years after this.

TRACK FOUR - Don't know this one either...sounds like McCoy on piano, but the lyrics remind me of Horace Silver. Not really feeling the singer that much (or the lyrics after the second time around.... That's not John Stubblefield on tenor is it? Or if it's a McCoy Band, Joe Ford? But the longer this goes on, the less it feels like McCoy, no matter how much it might sound like him. So...I'm stumped. Maybe Azar Lawrence once moved to L.A. Or not...There's a tinge of, for lack of a better term, "post-Brecker" rhythmic ya-ya in the tenor that for me takes away a lot of really good other things...Maybe this is Courtney Pine or some other non-U.S. players? Sometimes that's not really relevant to anything, but for this, something's creating a "distance" for me that I'd just as soon not be there...although why, exactly, I couldn't tell you. But something, some very little but palpable thing, is missing, even if a lot of other good stuff is there.

Not Stubblefield, Ford, McCoy, or Pine. More than any other cut on the BFT, this one was included for extra-musical reasons, as I will explain in the reveal.

TRACK FIVE - OH FUCK YEAH!!! Best cut off one of the best records ever. This record and Unity (and a small handful of others, but especially those two) got me through a very character-defining period of my young-adult life with head held high and integrity intact. One should never forget people, places or things that bless you with that.

Thanks for sharing that. Thom and I agree with you fully on the significance and awesomeness of this cut. Would love to hear more detail on the impact this had for you.

TRACK SIX - Jean Carne spoiled me for anyone else doing this one. This singer's good enough (although a few moments of pitch-unfortunateness are kinda hard to be undistracted by), but....this is one of those tunes that you either define it on your own terms or else it's best you leave it alone. And the tempo's just a touch too fast for my liking. Maybe that's out of necessity, but still...

I agree Carn's version is definitive, but I really like this one, and there are some aspects of this one I prefer (though I'll definitely take the Carn version if I can only have one). I think Carn also has " a few moments of pitch-unfortunateness", but don't know how you can't on this. I think it must be a great act of courage to record a vocal version of this song. I'm not a musician, but it just seems soo difficult (but so beautiful). This is a singer whose work I fell in love with a couple decades before this, so I'm nowhere near unbiased here.

TRACK SEVEN - Like this one a lot. No idea who it is, but that pianist's left hand is very nice, not at all dissimilar in concept to Earl Hines', even if the vocabulary is different. Putting the style of playing (all those fourths and pentatonics) together with the recording quality narrows it down somewhat, but not enough for me to hazard guess, but this is really there for me in terms of just throwing it all out there and not leaving anything behind. Some folks got more to throw that with than others but it feels the same no matter who does it, at least at some kind of level. These two have a pretty fair amount to throw, and it gets thrown! Part of me wants to say early Chick Corea, but the right hand is just a little looser than was Chick's wont, I'm thinking.

Not Corea. Great description on "throwing it all there".

TRACK EIGHT - The unmistakeable sound of Harold Vick! And Shirley Scott. What a great record this is! I remember hearing about it for many, many years before actually finding it. A lot of times when that happens, you've either hyped yourself into liking it no matter what, or else over-hyped yourself and it falls flat for no good reason. Not this one, and a big part of that was Harold Vick. His sound is such an organic thing, how it works perfectly with his fingers, sometimes you'll hear a little pause between brain and fingers, just a little micro second, but he's such a true player that he uses his sound, not to hide that, but to go ahead and make that a part of his statement, like, yeah, I needed to think for a second about this, but so what, doesn't everybody? That, and he, like Yusef Lateef, has a deep understanding of how the tenor speaks, what makes it a tenor and not an alto, or a trumpet, or a piano, or a sheet of score paper. No dammit, Harold Vick plays tenor! Listen to how the volume and inflection within his lines are always variating, just like he's talking to you, not reciting, but talking, spontaneously. And ok, Shirley Scott made a lot of records and never had a STAR thing like Jimmy Smith, and that ain't no ways right. And this one is probably the jewel of them all, but even at that, HAROLD VICK!

Yep. I thought Thom's description of Vick's playing was very insightful/

TRACK NINE - Well, there's an "under-rated" player for you, this trumpeter. I got this album on Inner City, and reading between the not too narrow lines, it appears that there was some wrangling involved for his to get his tapes (or at least his rights to them), back from Strata-East (or perhaps more specifically, Charles Tolliver). So much for the Perpetual Utopia of artist-owned labels...but still, geez, do people still make records like this unless they're trying to sound like records like this? In which case, no, please don't bother, because that was then, they were them, this is now, and no matter how much you might identify with them, you are not them. And Sonny Fortune can still play his ass off, as they say. Also on this record, one of Dee Dee Bridgewater's superb early recorded moments. Between this record and her work with Heiner Stadler, no matter what she does today, I always have those in mind and know that even if she has totally lost her mind (and I don't think she has, not totally), it was a very good mind, so, hey, context, please, and all that. And oh yeah, ok, Alex Blake, still doing this with Randy Weston. That seems as it should be.

I also really like early Bridgewater, though I find her cut on this album to be exceedingly (lyrically) disturbing. I'm a sucker for her work on "Mother of the Future" and "Night Sea Journey".

In conclusion, a few things hit the spot a little less than others, but none truly missed the mark. Most of these selections speak to me in a "I was there" sense the way that 60s (or 50s, or 40s, etc.) musics speak to others. A very enjoyable listen. Thanks much!

Most of these tracks also speak to me because I was there, too (we're about the same age). Even one of the later tracks is here because of something from that era. It is when I was formed as a jazz listener and a young man. Thanks so much for your thoughts.

[randyhersom]

I had a couple tags show up and viewed the thread before listening, so 4 and 7 are the only remaining mysteries to solve. The style of McCoy Tyner is certainly noticeable in 7 but I don't know of him recording a drums duet, so we're looking for someone influenced by him. Joe Bonner and Myra Melford come to mind, with Don Pullen and Mulgrew Miller as left field possibilities. I do think this is 80s or before.

Very nice selections. Like JSngry, this is the era that I "grew up" with jazzwise and remains my favorite.

[tkeith]

Hmmm... interesting to see all the chronological commentary. I consider this to be the era as I was growing up, though I was not yet part of the record buying public. My Dad would play things like Return to Forever, Children of Forever, and Eddie Gale's Ghetto Music (my first Jazz record) for us as kids (roughly ages 4-10 for me and my older sister). He typically played more traditional stuff, but this was his attempt to get us into the music. It worked for me (sort of; other than the Chick Corea stuff, I didn't develop my real appreciation until Sonny Rollin's Don't Ask, which was my first purchased Jazz record when I was 9). Anyway, I'd guess I might be about 5-10 years shy of the folks identifying with this stuff, though I'd count myself in your numbers. I know webbcity identifies there, as well, and I've got a few years on him. Interesting stuff, this social media.

[felser]

Thom, you're about 15 years shy of me - I'll be 59 next month, started college in fall of '72. and got into this music that first semester, big bang via 'A Love Supreme'. 'Ghetto Music' is a heck of an introduction for a four year old!