McCoy Tyner

[T.D.]

Sorry for going OT, but: Tyner (as a leader) is under-represented in my collection. I noticed his Mosaic Select is still in stock, but didn't find much discussion on the forums here. Any love for the Tyner Select? Recommendations?

[CJ Shearn]

Yes! a wonderful set

[king ubu]

There have been several discussions, even entire thread, dedicated to Tyner's health. I hope he's doing well!

Saw him live in 2011, in fact sitting right next to his piano on a bar stool, thus able to watch his hands all night long - and close enough to hear him very lowly sing along most every line his left hand was playing. Wonderful concert (with Gary Barth, Gerald Cannon and Joe Farnsworth - a German report i wrote can be found here) and very fond memories. The only time I caught him live though, at least so far. He seemed frail and was moving slowly, but once at the piano, he was highly concentrated and definitely in the mood to play!

And yes, much love from me for the Mosaic Select, that was what I meant when I mentioned the "late Blue Notes" in an earlier post here! (Plus of course "The Real McCoy", too, which was my first Tyner album, besides some sideman recordings with Coltrane, but "The Real McCoy" was among my first 25 or 30 jazz CDs, I think - still have that one, an old McMaster.)

[felser]

I'll also put in a plug for the Select. 'Expansions' and 'Extensions' are awesome, 'Asante' is fascinating, and the outtakes are well worthwhile for the most part. 'Extensions' and 'Sahara' are probably the picks of Tyner for me if I had to pick (though I own almost everything he's done)

[Hot Ptah]

The Select is from what I privately think of as his "cerebral" period, compared to the "heavy metal" Milestone period.

Both labels are meant a bit tongue in cheek.

[king ubu]

well, in that terminology the Impulse albums would be - in my view, which probably needs correction anyway - the smooth jazz years

[felser]

and the second stint on Blue Note would be the "unplugged" years...

[BFrank]

I've seen him a couple of times in the past few years. He's definitely become somewhat frail, but his playing is still sharp, although (needless to say) with much less ferocity as his earlier days.

[John L]

I love Hubert Laws' flute playing on Fly With The Wind.

Those Milestones are to me, some of the most exciting jazz of all time, by anyone. I especially like Trident, the trio album with Ron Carter and Elvin Jones--fantastic. Supertrios is way, way up there too.

Focal Point is a sometimes overlooked album, but has excellent compositions and playing by all. I saw that group live with Joe Ford and Ron Bridgewater in the front line. Bridgewater was replaced after that by George Adams, who was often incredible live with Tyner in the several times I saw them live.

In the mid 1970s to early 1980s, Tyner's groups were typically high energy and wonderful live, about the most exciting and best live touring group out there, in my opinion. They toured around the country often, too.

I actually like Inner Voices, especially the two tracks with no voices, which are quite exciting.

Echoes of a Friend on Milestone, his solo piano album, has always been a favorite of mine.

It would appear that you and I have similar taste in McCoy Tyner. I used to catch McCoy's band at Keystone Korner every time it came to town in the mid-1970s. I am also particularly fond of Focal Point as coming close to what that band sounded like live. The percussive power that they generated could just carry you away.

[imeanyou]

I'll also put in a plug for the Select. 'Expansions' and 'Extensions' are awesome, 'Asante' is fascinating, and the outtakes are well worthwhile for the most part. 'Extensions' and 'Sahara' are probably the picks of Tyner for me if I had to pick (though I own almost everything he's done)

Just picked up a copy of 'Asante' today. Seems quite difficult to find a copy here in Tokyo. If it follows the same vein as 'Extensions' (I'm guessing it does), then it should be a welcome addition.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Imeanyou

[T.D.]

Thanks for the comments on the Select. "Cerebral" is OK for me (tongue-in-cheek recognized ). Will order it, as the set is "running low".

[mjzee]

So, I'm not one to promote bootlegs or Andorran-type releases, but this caught my eye:

That phrase "plus an unreleased session."  Here's from the description: "Also included as part of this collection, is a rare, previously unreleased recording of a jam session undertaken by members of John Coltrane's group in Munich in 1961, led by Eric Dolphy on bass clarinet and McCoy Tyner on piano. This unique and rarely heard recording also featured Reggie Workman on bass, Mel Lewis on drums, and Coltrane himself contributed trumpet to one number."  Is this available elsewhere?  Is it any good?  Coltrane on trumpet????

[JSngry]

Heard in full on this standalone CD (or other versions of the same thing, it's out there, and has been for a while now):

https://www.amazon.com/Softly-Morning-Sunrise-Germany-Stash/dp/B000QZWQFG

I have 3/4 (no rhythm changes) of it on this back-in-the-day bootleg. It's good enough to have once, but I heard no trumpet, nor would I expect to.

Just sayin'...I'd get the impulse! albums elsewhere. I mean, you gotta look askance at an outfit that steals a reissue cover of Today and Tomorrow and tells you that Coltrane is plaing trumpet, I mean, c'mon, these motherfuckers ain't even trying....

[mjzee]

I dunno, I might.  I remember when the Impulse CD reissues came out (Cuscuna had a hand in them, IIRC), being very disappointed they weren't twofers, since the originals were so short and there were no extra tracks.

[Peter Friedman]

I especially like McCoy's Impulse albums. His playing was less percussive, and more to my taste than most of his later sessions.

My favorite McCoy Tyner was during the 1960s' in a sideman role. He recorded during those years with a very long list of musicians aside from Coltrane. I counted at least 14 different musicians he recorded with in the 60s'. 

Curtis Fuller, The Jazztet, Freddie Hubbard, Julian Priester, Art Blakey, Joe Henderson, Wayne Shorter, Grant Green, J.J. Johnson, Stanley Turrentine, Milt Jackson, Donald Byrd and Bobby Hutcherson.

[Rooster_Ties]

I'm also rather fond of McCoy in the late 70's and around 1980, towards the end of his run on Milestone.  Two albums that come to mind are:

• Together (Milestone, 1978) -- with Freddie Hubbard, Herbert Laws, Bennie Maupin, Bobby Hutcherson, Stanley Clarke, and Jack DeJohnette
• 13th House (Milestone, 1981) -- with a 13-piece small big-band.

[Pim]

I love his Milestone output. The Greeting, Sama Lamayuca... those are some serious high energy live sessions. Not really free jazz but contains the same amount of power and energy. Exhausting in a positive way. Love those bands, love the compositions and themes and love Tyners playing.

Echoes of a Friend 

I do not dislike his works after 1985 but do think he had more potential.

[mjzee]

I recently found a vinyl copy of "It's About Time."  It's billed as by McCoy Tyner and Jackie McLean, but it seems to me like a Tyner album with McLean as part of the band.  Jackie's only on 4 of the 6 tracks, and none are a showcase for him alone.  It's a good album, although the SQ is sometimes funky.  I think they missed an opportunity to call it McCoy and McLean.

[felser]

18 hours ago, mjzee said:

I recently found a vinyl copy of "It's About Time."  It's billed as by McCoy Tyner and Jackie McLean, but it seems to me like a Tyner album with McLean as part of the band.  Jackie's only on 4 of the 6 tracks, and none are a showcase for him alone.  It's a good album, although the SQ is sometimes funky.  I think they missed an opportunity to call it McCoy and McLean.

It's good, but always has seemed likea relative disappointment, which holds true for both so many BN albums from that relaunch period and so many post-Milestone Tyner albums.  Seemed like the craft remained, but the inspiration was gone.

Edited December 26, 2021 by felser

[BillF]

9 hours ago, felser said:

It's good, but always has seemed likea relative disappointment, which holds true for both so mant BN albums from that relaunch period and so many post-Milestone Tyner albums.  Seemed like the craft remained, but the inspiration was gone.

Putting it the other way, the inspiration that declined over time was strongest in the beginning. My favourite Tyner is on Coltrane sessions and then on his earliest leader dates, such as Inception and Reaching Fourth.

[sidewinder]

The McCoy group I saw was best in 80/81, to this day one of the very best performances I’ve ever witnessed. It was incendiary. Subsequent to that I saw his trio quite a few times in the 80s and then into the 90s and beyond. Always thoroughly enjoyed it but always thought that some of the modal fire left after 1985-ish. McCoy also seemed to feature more standards and less of his own compositions I think.

[Guy Berger]

On 10/24/2013 at 3:08 PM, Hot Ptah said:

The Select is from what I privately think of as his "cerebral" period, compared to the "heavy metal" Milestone period.

 

Both labels are meant a bit tongue in cheek.

How much of this reflects differences in how the music was recorded, vs differences in the underlying music?  The late BNs to some degree benefit from benign neglect whereas the Milestones were recorded with savvy marketing in mind?

[felser]

8 hours ago, sidewinder said:

 always thought that some of the modal fire left after 1985-ish. McCoy also seemed to feature more standards and less of his own compositions I think.

+1

8 hours ago, BillF said:

Putting it the other way, the inspiration that declined over time was strongest in the beginning. My favourite Tyner is on Coltrane sessions and then on his earliest leader dates, such as Inception and Reaching Fourth.

That may just be a difference in taste.  The late 60's-early 70's BN's and the early-mid 70's Milestones were just utterly explosive and tremendous to my ears, masterpieces.

[HutchFan]

On 12/13/2018 at 2:44 PM, Rooster_Ties said:

I'm also rather fond of McCoy in the late 70's and around 1980, towards the end of his run on Milestone.  Two albums that come to mind are:

• Together (Milestone, 1978) -- with Freddie Hubbard, Herbert Laws, Bennie Maupin, Bobby Hutcherson, Stanley Clarke, and Jack DeJohnette
• 13th House (Milestone, 1981) -- with a 13-piece small big-band.

I agree.  In general, the second half of McCoy's Milestone output appeals to me more than the first.  My desert-island McCoy is Horizon.  

I know that records like Sahara and Enlightenment and Atlantis made MUCH bigger splashes at the time.  Those early Milestones are probably Tyner's most important records. ... And I enjoy them, but not as much as the subsequent LPs.

Among the earlier Milestones, my favorite is Sama Layuca.  It has an ebb and flow.  McCoy's relentlessness is balanced by Hutcherson's lyricism.       

 

[Guy Berger]

On 10/24/2013 at 3:08 PM, Hot Ptah said:

The Select is from what I privately think of as his "cerebral" period, compared to the "heavy metal" Milestone period.

 

Both labels are meant a bit tongue in cheek.

How much of this reflects differences in how the music was recorded, vs differences in the underlying music?  The late BNs to some degree benefit from benign neglect whereas the Milestones were recorded with savvy marketing in mind?