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Is Spotify going to save the music industry ... or destroy it?


BillF

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I've been a paid subscriber to Spotify for about a year, but it seems that I mainly use it to figure out whether I have a defective disc. :rfr I have been so inundated with new music that I've purchased that I often forget all about Spotify. I did recently use it to determine which Wayne Shorter Quartet Japanese reissue I'd like to order, however (I chose Footprints Live over Beyond the Sound Barrier). I'd probably be better served using that $4.99 monthly fee to buy a Soul Note/Black Saint download on Amazon.

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I've bought a bunch of cd's as a result of hearing them first on Spotify. A lot of artists I might not otherwise would have taken a chance on, I have made purchases because of Spotify. To me, that's a good thing.

I, too, use Spotify to see whether I want to buy a particular recording. In fact, that's about the only way I use it. For me, it's particularly valuable in the classical music realm, where typically there are lots of different recordings of the piece I find myself interested in at the moment. With jazz, it's more a matter of a fairly quick dip into something. If it works for me, I pretty much know that right off or think that I do; I have been fooled at times.

For instance, in the wake of Frank Wess's death, I recently bought a 2-CD compilation of mid-1950s Joe Newman material -- originally on Vanguard, Storyville, and Jazztone -- that includes Wess throughout. I listened to several tracks on Spotify, all from the Vanguard date, and found them to be better in every way than the pleasant but rather formulaic Newman small group stuff that he recorded around then as a leader or sideman for RCA or VIK. (Indeed, on the Vanguard date, Newman sounds like twice the player I remembered him as being.) Unfortunately, as fine as the Vanguard date is musically (and beautifully recorded, as all those Vanguard dates were), the Storyville material, while OK musically, sounds like it was recorded in the proverbial linen closet. Haven't got to the Jazztone date yet. My fault for not sampling things more thoroughly, not Spotify's, though I'd still buy the album knowing what I know now.

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I've been a paid subscriber to Spotify for about a year, but it seems that I mainly use it to figure out whether I have a defective disc. :rfr

How does that work? If you make a secure rip with XLD (or EAC) you can have it automatically compare the AccurateRip signature generated to the AccurateRip database.

I've bought a bunch of cd's as a result of hearing them first on Spotify. A lot of artists I might not otherwise would have taken a chance on, I have made purchases because of Spotify. To me, that's a good thing.

I, too, use Spotify to see whether I want to buy a particular recording. In fact, that's about the only way I use it.

I would also want to confirm which CD edition sounds best. And since when do we have to pay record stores for in store listening? A while ago I heard (some) shoe stores in America charge customers to try on shoes, because people will just go home and order what they want online for the lowest price.

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Well, I thought, let's see if they've got one of Coumba Gawlo's early K7s - 'Seytane' on Spotify. So I got the website up, hit the 'Get Spotify' button and was invited to join Facebook. But the article said it didn't do that any more, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to even do that.

So, any of you Spotify types know if Coumba Gawlo's second K7 is on Spotify?

MG

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I would also want to confirm which CD edition sounds best. And since when do we have to pay record stores for in store listening? A while ago I heard (some) shoe stores in America charge customers to try on shoes, because people will just go home and order what they want online for the lowest price.

I think you'll find that very few stores in the U.S. anyway will allow you to listen to an unopened copy of a CD. You might be able to listen to a used copy. And unless it is a best-seller, they won't have enough copies to have an opened copy. For a while Virgin did have listening stations that must have tapped into Amazon server since it would allow you to play soundclips if you scanned the barcode (and thus didn't actually open the CD).

Once the in-store experience was essentially no better and often less convenient than on-line, then brick and mortar stores were pretty much finished.

Edited by ejp626
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Well, I thought, let's see if they've got one of Coumba Gawlo's early K7s - 'Seytane' on Spotify. So I got the website up, hit the 'Get Spotify' button and was invited to join Facebook. But the article said it didn't do that any more, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to even do that.

So, any of you Spotify types know if Coumba Gawlo's second K7 is on Spotify?

MG

If "Seytane" is a track, the answer is yes. If it's an album, then the answer is no. "Seytane" is given as a track on Coumba Gawlo's album, Live in Dakar Vol 1. Six other albums by Coumba Gawlo are available.

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Well, I thought, let's see if they've got one of Coumba Gawlo's early K7s - 'Seytane' on Spotify. So I got the website up, hit the 'Get Spotify' button and was invited to join Facebook. But the article said it didn't do that any more, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to even do that.

So, any of you Spotify types know if Coumba Gawlo's second K7 is on Spotify?

MG

If "Seytane" is a track, the answer is yes. If it's an album, then the answer is no. "Seytane" is given as a track on Coumba Gawlo's album, Live in Dakar Vol 1. Six other albums by Coumba Gawlo are available.

'Seytane' is the title track of the album. It's the same song, but the original 1990 version of the live album done in 2004. So the answer is no.

I managed to work out how to register without Facebook and I found something VERY disturbing. After a few searches of African artists, in which I found nothing I hadn't already got, I tried a search on Jackie Ivory. I suspected they wouldn't have his Atco LP 'Soul discovery'. However they did.

THEY HAD THE COPY I RIPPED TO MY HARD DRIVE A FEW YEARS AGO!!!!

I know it's mine because, quite eccentrically, I include the duration of the album in the album title - and always use block capitals for the titles.

So how the fuck did they get that? I'm pretty certain I never sent it to anyone. Who would want it?

MG

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I've bought a bunch of cd's as a result of hearing them first on Spotify. A lot of artists I might not otherwise would have taken a chance on, I have made purchases because of Spotify. To me, that's a good thing.

This is how I use it too. It's early days as I've only been using it for just over a month. I'm surprised how poor the interface is and how little information is given. You either need to know what you're looking for or just don't care.

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I've bought a bunch of cd's as a result of hearing them first on Spotify. A lot of artists I might not otherwise would have taken a chance on, I have made purchases because of Spotify. To me, that's a good thing.

This is how I use it too. It's early days as I've only been using it for just over a month. I'm surprised how poor the interface is and how little information is given. You either need to know what you're looking for or just don't care.

The competition is already nipping at their heels,and th einterface appears to be their AChille's heel (for tech types and "fashion forward" guys):

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-you-should-switch-spotify-to-rdio-2013-11

And the description of Daniel Eck in the original article:

"His scalp and chin have equal amounts of stubble, which makes his head look reversible." Ouch! That's a bit personal.

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Whoa! I've been doing some more searching on Spotify. It looks to me like they've somehow accessed my hard drive and got loads of material off it: a whole raft of Willis Jacksons: the two LPs Les McCann recorded with Teddy Edwards and Clifford Scott; the twofer I made up of Jimmy McGriff's 'Black pearl' and McGriff/Parker's 'Chicken fried soul'; and so on and so on.

One very interesting thing they've got is a pair of sermons by Rev Johnny Lee 'Hurricane' Jones, which were recorded on 5 Nov 2011 and 3 Dec 2011 off the radio by Paul Secor, sent to JeffCrom, and thence to me. Again, I know it's my copy they've got because of the block capitals and the lengths included in the titles.

The real clincher though is that I put together a Gene Ammons twofer of 'Night lights' (the LP with Wynton Kelly, only some of which has appeared on cd) and an album that never was issued, but which appeared on a number of different LPs and CDs, and which was his complete session with Mal Waldron - which I called 'THE MAL WALDRON SESSION - 36-40'. And they're both there on Spotify.

I KNOW ABSOLUTELY THAT I'VE NEVER SENT THIS TO ANYONE. I just did it to be able to listen to all the tracks of these albums together.

So, a couple of questions arise:

1 to whom do I complain?

2 Spotify say they pay people through the record companies, but these albums are not authorised by the record companies; they're mostly vinyl rips of stuff that never appeared on CD. Indeed, the Johnny Lee Jones is just a radio broadcast.

MG

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almost certain, the access to your hard drive (??!!) is not due to Spotify themselves but rather to some "record label" which uploads its downloads (from wherever) to spotify. don't know if this makes you feel any better, but unless, say, 100000 people listen to it (unlikely), there will be no revenues that deserve the name to whoever did it...

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Whoa! I've been doing some more searching on Spotify. It looks to me like they've somehow accessed my hard drive and got loads of material off it: a whole raft of Willis Jacksons: the two LPs Les McCann recorded with Teddy Edwards and Clifford Scott; the twofer I made up of Jimmy McGriff's 'Black pearl' and McGriff/Parker's 'Chicken fried soul'; and so on and so on.

One very interesting thing they've got is a pair of sermons by Rev Johnny Lee 'Hurricane' Jones, which were recorded on 5 Nov 2011 and 3 Dec 2011 off the radio by Paul Secor, sent to JeffCrom, and thence to me. Again, I know it's my copy they've got because of the block capitals and the lengths included in the titles.

The real clincher though is that I put together a Gene Ammons twofer of 'Night lights' (the LP with Wynton Kelly, only some of which has appeared on cd) and an album that never was issued, but which appeared on a number of different LPs and CDs, and which was his complete session with Mal Waldron - which I called 'THE MAL WALDRON SESSION - 36-40'. And they're both there on Spotify.

I KNOW ABSOLUTELY THAT I'VE NEVER SENT THIS TO ANYONE. I just did it to be able to listen to all the tracks of these albums together.

So, a couple of questions arise:

1 to whom do I complain?

2 Spotify say they pay people through the record companies, but these albums are not authorised by the record companies; they're mostly vinyl rips of stuff that never appeared on CD. Indeed, the Johnny Lee Jones is just a radio broadcast.

MG

Whoa! That is really disturbing.

By the way, I recorded those Rev. Jones radio shows.

Edited by jeffcrom
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Spotify hasn't stolen these tracks from you. Rather, Spotify works as a media player as well as streaming interface. That way you can use it to play the music stored on your own computer, too, and make playlists both from your private files and those available from Spotify itself. Locally stored files are showing in searches, but that feature can be turned off (Edit/Preferences/Local files).

Edited by Daniel A
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Whoa! I've been doing some more searching on Spotify. It looks to me like they've somehow accessed my hard drive and got loads of material off it: a whole raft of Willis Jacksons: the two LPs Les McCann recorded with Teddy Edwards and Clifford Scott; the twofer I made up of Jimmy McGriff's 'Black pearl' and McGriff/Parker's 'Chicken fried soul'; and so on and so on.

One very interesting thing they've got is a pair of sermons by Rev Johnny Lee 'Hurricane' Jones, which were recorded on 5 Nov 2011 and 3 Dec 2011 off the radio by Paul Secor, sent to JeffCrom, and thence to me. Again, I know it's my copy they've got because of the block capitals and the lengths included in the titles.

The real clincher though is that I put together a Gene Ammons twofer of 'Night lights' (the LP with Wynton Kelly, only some of which has appeared on cd) and an album that never was issued, but which appeared on a number of different LPs and CDs, and which was his complete session with Mal Waldron - which I called 'THE MAL WALDRON SESSION - 36-40'. And they're both there on Spotify.

I KNOW ABSOLUTELY THAT I'VE NEVER SENT THIS TO ANYONE. I just did it to be able to listen to all the tracks of these albums together.

So, a couple of questions arise:

1 to whom do I complain?

2 Spotify say they pay people through the record companies, but these albums are not authorised by the record companies; they're mostly vinyl rips of stuff that never appeared on CD. Indeed, the Johnny Lee Jones is just a radio broadcast.

MG

MG, I've just searched Spotify for 'Rev Johnny Lee 'Hurricane' Jones' and ''THE MAL WALDRON SESSION - 36-40' as worded in your post and nothing comes up for me. This may come as some relief if not lessen the confusion but looks like it might be reading yor hard drive locally enabling you to search their database and yours simultaneously?

edit: to add that Daniel A's post beat me to it with far more knowledge too

Edited by mjazzg
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Spotify hasn't stolen these tracks from you. Rather, Spotify works as a media player as well as streaming interface. That way you can use it to play the music stored on your own computer, too, and make playlists using both your private files and those available from Spotify itself. Locally stored files are showing in searches, but that feature can be turned off (Edit/Preferences/Local files).

Yes, that's true. All the music stored in my iTunes collection also finds its way into my Spotify library.

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Spotify hasn't stolen these tracks from you. Rather, Spotify works as a media player as well as streaming interface. That way you can use it to play the music stored on your own computer, too, and make playlists using both your private files and those available from Spotify itself. Locally stored files are showing in searches, but that feature can be turned off (Edit/Preferences/Local files).

Yes, that's true. All the music stored in my iTunes collection also finds its way into my Spotify library.

Whew!

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I've been a paid subscriber to Spotify for about a year, but it seems that I mainly use it to figure out whether I have a defective disc. :rfr

How does that work? If you make a secure rip with XLD (or EAC) you can have it automatically compare the AccurateRip signature generated to the AccurateRip database.

I think he means if he hears an audio defect on his CD copy, he can listen to the relevant song on Spotify and see if the same defect shows up there as well. I hadn't actually considered this as a plus for Spotify but i would find it useful; currently i do this type of cross checking using youtube but obviously there's a crapload of stuff that's not on youtube.

My process:

Buy CD.

Rip CD using iTunes.

Listen to audio files to make sure there are no audible defects.

If there are, i listen to the CD to see if it's on audible on the original CD.

If it isn't on the original CD, i re-rip the relevant song and usually it works out all good. If it continues to be an issue i'll use a friends computer (sometimes my computer just doesn't like a disc for whatever reason).

If the audio defect can be heard on the original CD as well, i'll try to find the track on youtube or elsewhere online (bandcamp etc)to see if it's audible there as well. this is obviously not an exact science as if your lucky and the track in question is there it may be from a different release/format or mastering or whatever so it's not really conclusive (this would be the same for Spotify).

TL/DR: Spotify can be useful for identyfing whether an audio defect is on your copy of the CD only, or whether it is likely on every copy and hence it's not worth worrying about.

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I've been a paid subscriber to Spotify for about a year, but it seems that I mainly use it to figure out whether I have a defective disc. :rfr

How does that work? If you make a secure rip with XLD (or EAC) you can have it automatically compare the AccurateRip signature generated to the AccurateRip database.

I think he means if he hears an audio defect on his CD copy, he can listen to the relevant song on Spotify and see if the same defect shows up there as well. I hadn't actually considered this as a plus for Spotify but i would find it useful; currently i do this type of cross checking using youtube but obviously there's a crapload of stuff that's not on youtube.

My process:

Buy CD.

Rip CD using iTunes.

Listen to audio files to make sure there are no audible defects.

If there are, i listen to the CD to see if it's on audible on the original CD.

If it isn't on the original CD, i re-rip the relevant song and usually it works out all good. If it continues to be an issue i'll use a friends computer (sometimes my computer just doesn't like a disc for whatever reason).

If the audio defect can be heard on the original CD as well, i'll try to find the track on youtube or elsewhere online (bandcamp etc)to see if it's audible there as well. this is obviously not an exact science as if your lucky and the track in question is there it may be from a different release/format or mastering or whatever so it's not really conclusive (this would be the same for Spotify).

TL/DR: Spotify can be useful for identyfing whether an audio defect is on your copy of the CD only, or whether it is likely on every copy and hence it's not worth worrying about.

Making a secure rip and generating a log file with CRC32 hash codes can be an exact science if your CDs have no scratches that prevent a clean rip. I've had a case where the Japanese SHM CD used the same mastering as the domestic US/EU CD (Coltrane Originals of Live at Birdland, Live at the Village Vanguard & Impressions). My ears made me think this was so. The secure rip confirmed it. The exact same codes were generated for both domestic and Japanese CDs for all three titles.

Just using my ears to confirm my CDs do not have defects would drive me a little nuts. Confirming an AccurateRip signature against the AccurateRip database often leaves no room for doubt in case your results match those in the database.

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Just using my ears to confirm my CDs do not have defects would drive me a little nuts. Confirming an AccurateRip signature against the AccurateRip database often leaves no room for doubt in case your results match those in the database.

It's funny, there's some things that i am so OCD about, but other times it's like my brain lets me off the hook and goes "lets not even go there..." The "if i can't hear a problem, it's fine" method works for me, where as if i started getting into checking databases and what not i think that would drive me crazy. Different strokes and all that!

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