Jump to content

BFT 117 discussion


mikeweil

Recommended Posts

At the risk of embarrassing myself, I'm fairly certain track #8 is the world's best vibes player. I stated on my first BFT here that Walt Dickerson was my favorite musician, so if I'm wrong...big egg on my face. Beautiful tune, nice bass line and maybe Andrew Cryille also. I honestly like Mr. Dickerson's later music better but this ain't bad.

Bingo!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 68
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Think I figured out the theme. ;) I’ve never actually owned the album in the picture, but do have a cut from it on a Tower Records Sampler. Odd but useless fact of the day.
Track 1 - Digging this. It’s got an edge to it because of the tempo, but I like the simplicity of the melody, and those vibes are a very interesting layer. No idea who it is. I’m not enamored of the vibrato he’s using on the vibes, but the complete package works tremendously, here.
Track 2 - I like this even more than the last. That base is intoxicating. I don’t miss the lack of drums and the vibes are the perfect compliment to this. I think I’ve heard this before, but I can’t say what it is. It’s perfectly lovely.
Track 3 - This has the feel of a Sonny Clark recording to me, but I don’t think that’s what it is. Time period seems right, but on the earbuds, it’s hard to tell. Could be a Steeplechase recording, too (if that makes sense). Loving the rhythm section on this. That’s not taking away from the vibes, but the trio is just driving this without being in your face (why doesn’t this happen anymore?). An out-of-leftfield guess: is that Tootie Heath on drums?
Track 4 - My first impression of the piano was Joe Bonner, then McCoy. But now I’m thinking this is newer guys playing in that style. Something about the head is very 90s. The musicianship is impressive, but this lacks the “it” that the last cut had. Pretty positive that’s Billy Higgins on drums, but that’s not going to pull this over the edge. The interplay between vibes and piano just comes off as too busy. I like it more than it sounds, but it’s too busy to hold up for me long-term.
Track 5 - Man, you’re hitting the right spots with this test. Man, this has it all. Organ-ic blues feel, Coltrane, and it’s in 3. This is like Thanksgiving pizza. Weird suggestion: Sounds (again, on earbuds) like a Mapleshade recording. I say that because I’m loving the drums to unhealthy levels. This may find it’s way on permanent repeat for awhile. LOVING this. Heavy Elvin influence on the drummer, but not in a rip-off way. This is just groovin’. CURSE YOU! Yaw gonna make me po-ah!!!!!
Track 6 - This is weird. Tenor has me thinking J-Griff at time, Mr. T. at others, but it’s neither. However, I can’t say who it *is*. A little Harold Ashby right at the tail end of that soil. I don’t know the band, and I’m not sure the arrangement completely works. Almost sounds like a college band — very precise, but lacking that distinct voice (the soloists notwithstanding). With that heavy vibrato, could well be Lovano, but I like this more than I typically like Joe. There’s that growl again. Almost like Shepp or Heinz Sauer, but that’s just two more people that this isn’t. Love the ‘bone… nay, that’s a Frenchhorn, isn’t it. Either way, I like it. No, now I’m leaning ‘bone again. Loving all the solos, but not the arrangement… perhaps there is a clue in that. If so, I’m blind to it.
Track 7 - Never thought I’d say this: too much vibes. Lacks the blues through the first minute. When the band comes it there is an improvement, but I’m still not loving it. Drums/bass are working hard to make this happen, but everything else is missing to my ear. Starting to gain some steam at 2:06. The Coltrane/3 feel again, but well done. Piano is still a little too new—agey for my taste, but this is developing into something. Newer recording and the drums are definitely adding something. I’m thinking this is an avant garde drummer playing in a more traditional style. Not sure what to make of the vibes, only that I’m not digging it.
Track 8 - Ah! There’s my guy! It’s track 2 from this [http://www.allmusic.com/album/this-is-walt-dickerson%21-mw0000105645]. Those first four albums — not a wasted note on them. Pretty much enamored of everything he ever did, and it’s one of the great travesties that he’s not mentioned with the royalty of the genre. He wasn’t a junky, so he was under recorded (meaning the record companies couldn’t take full advantage of him). A man I actively miss. Everything about this record just works.
Track 9 - This is quite nice, as well. This is not someone I’m as familiar with, but coming out of that same general school. I prefer the ballad segment of the tune, but both halves work. I like the right-hand of the pianist a lot. Seems like the recording could capture the piano better, but I really like what the piano is doing. The business of the uptempo portion of the head doesn’t really bother me as they don’t allow it to run over the feel of the whole tune.
Track 10 - An older style/recording. This strikes me a lot like the opening cut. The vibrato is heavier than it needs to be, but the overall feel work quite well. Bitchin’ tune.
Track 11 - This one doesn’t resonate quite as much as the last one, but I still like it a lot. No new ground broken here, but this is IN the pocket. Piano seems very familiar to me. Another neat tune. I want to say I have heard this before, but have no guess as to what it is.
Track 12 - Tenderly, in an older style of the instrument. Very thoughtful.
Track 13 - If You Could See Me Now. These sounds incredibly familiar. Sounds like a Xanadu live recording.
Track 14 - This has a more modern sound to me, but I like the overall feel. Pianist is a bit busy for my taste. Well… I think it’s the combination of busy and angular that my ears object to.
Track 15 - My Funny Valentine. A decent version of the tune, but didn’t really hold my interest. I was distracted by a note of news and had to check to see what tune I was on. I do like the playing, but it just lacked “it”.
Track 16 - I’m in at the opening bass hook. Don’t know what it is but reminds me of Charles Lloyd’s writing in the late 60s/early 70s — sort of a Sombrero Sam thing going on. Those guitar lines have a heavy Grant Green influence, but it’s not him. I think this is a retro-group. They’re doing it right, though. This is a good, ol’-fashioned ass shaker, and that’s always a good thing. Vibes player has some serious ability. I don’t think it’s Bobby, but it’s at that level.
Track 17 - Seems like a very mainland variation on St. Thomas. It generates, but does not maintain, some interest. It’s almost Brubeckian in it’s composition. When the improv starts, it improves slightly, but that comping sure does sound like Brubeck (not a good thing for my ears). There’s nothing particularly wrong with it, just doesn’t reach me.

Headed back to read other's comments. Thanks for the compilation. Varied reactions, for sure, but overall, much to like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your comments! I inserted my remarks.

3. If I were going to guess Milt on any of the tracks here, it would probably be this one. I don't think it's the MJQ, however. No Bags here ...

5. Beautiful Love. I like the sound of this group, and the playing is very nice. I don't know quite why, but I feel like this may be a European group. No, these are US boys.

8. Very lovely melody, which I'm not quite recognizing. Whenever I hear vocalizing over a vibes solo, I tend to think of Dave Pike, but that's a longshot to be considered an educated guess, so I'll just say that I find this to be very tasty. Not Pike here, but ...

10. In the opening, the vibist is reminding me of Buddy with the Mastersounds… but it's not that. I need to think more about this one, which feels a bit more familiar than some of the other tracks so far. I have the feeling that I should be recognizing this one. Eddie Costa? Not Costa, but he could be influenced by the vibes player here. You know that band.

11. Sounds like a take-off on the changes to "Love Me Or Leave Me". Nice arrangement. Sounds like a mid-to-late 50's recording (west coast?). Correct on the tune, and it is early 1950's west coast.

12. Tenderly. The style/sound of the opening is reminiscent of Milt on the classic "The Man I Love" from Miles & The Modern Jazz Giants. Very tasty, whoever this is. You're very close!

16. Very funky. Reminds me of a Les McCann/Eddie Harris kind of feel circa 1970. I don't know if I own this, but the sound of the group has a familiarity. The players of this track will take this as a big compliment, for sure.

17. Well, Ding DONG! The pianist and group sound is unmistakeable, and I own this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001N85O7C/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp

Great way to end the test, with a track that is getting me in the mood for Christmas jazz. Bingo! I was hipped to this disc by a previous BFT (yours?), bought it this year, and right now it's my favourite jazz christmas disc.

I'll go back and attempt more analysis soon (I hope).

Thanks, Mike.

17 wasn't on my BFT, but it does seem like it was on a BFT at some point. I thought perhaps Big Al's Christmas one, but it doesn't appear there, so... :shrug[1]:

It has dawned on me that I have #5 in my collection. I should listen to that album more often, as I love this vibist (especially his earlier recordings, as I'm sure you know!). Anyway, it's from this 1969 recording: http://www.dustygroove.com/item/5706

Track 10 still has me thinking hard...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another hit! I thought that would be one of the hardest to guess in the compilation, but instead ...

I too, thought the other track from the CD with # 17 was on Big Al's Christmas disc, but I can't locate it right now. But it certainly was a December BFT!


# 10, BTW, was composed by the vibist on that track, but he wasn't the leader of the date.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I do enjoy some vibes but ID-ing different vibists is way out of my league, so I have only a couple of guesses:

Could that be Steve Nelson with 'Grew on track 3? I'll admit to peeking and seeing that you said its not Bags, so my fallback when its not Bags is Nelson.

Is that Bags playing Tenderly?

Thanks Mike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, both of you identified Bags playing "Tenderly" - congrats. AFAIK, this is his only unaccompanied vibes solo ever.

But # 3 is neither Mulgrew nor Steve Nelson. But Nelson is elsewhere on this compilation.

Vibists are hard to identify, to a minor degree by their sound (mostly attack depending on their stroke characteristics and the mallets they use, and vibrato made by the revolving lids above the resonators), more by phrasing - but it's difficult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another hit! I thought that would be one of the hardest to guess in the compilation, but instead ...

I too, thought the other track from the CD with # 17 was on Big Al's Christmas disc, but I can't locate it right now. But it certainly was a December BFT!

I just discovered that Big Al's Christmas disc contained two other tracks ("Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas" and "Snowfall") from the same CD that your #17 came from. I knew it was the same artist, but I didn't realize they all came from the same CD.

# 10, BTW, was composed by the vibist on that track, but he wasn't the leader of the date.

This is really puzzling me. I even thought about it in the middle of the night once. :) Of course, it's not being able to tell you who the guitarist is that's really bugging me. When you said "you know that band", you just put more pressure on me (thanks ;)). I feel like I might be narrowing it down, though. I was going to guess either Victor Feldman or Larry Bunker, but when you said that Eddie Costa may have been influenced by this player, I thought my ideas were probably off target...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, one more hint or two regarding # 10: it was recorded in 1953. Eddie Costa did one recording session with the same bandleader in 1960 (but only the most recent CD reissue has him in the credits).

That bandleader, btw. is on another track of the disc - as I said, you know that band. And the guitar player of 1953, too ...

Edited by mikeweil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a most enjoyable experience - MJQ's Pyramid was one of my first jazz LPs (in 1966 I think) and I have had an affection for vibes ever since.

7. Sounds like it could be Christopher Dell. I chanced upon him at emusic under the name Christopher Drell DRA. I like this very much but have no idea what the tune is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7. Sounds like it could be Christopher Dell. I chanced upon him at emusic under the name Christopher Drell DRA. I like this very much but have no idea what the tune is.

Wow .... Christopher Dell is known in Toronto. You're good! Well, the tune is by Bert Kaempfert.

Okay, it's Tjader, but none of the other guys.

I think I have to be a little more exact with this band - it wasn't exactly West Coast, just based there for some months each year. The pianist was the leader.

Edited by mikeweil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I've solved #10 (thanks to all of the generous hints of course, and to S. Duncan Reid, AND to google book search). So, it was recorded on March 13, 1953, correct?

Btw, to be fully honest and accurate, I know OF that band (though I had not remembered that Tjader was a member at any point), but I wouldn't say that I "know" that band. The early works of that pianist are generally not found in my collection, despite my fondness for some of this later recordings, and despite the fact that I've always admired and enjoyed that guitarist (even more so on his other instrument), who wrote one of my favorite tunes of all time, and who was a fun guest on the U.S. late night talk shows some years ago. (more clues there for others to think about ;)).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Better get to this while there's time, so the usual thanks and disclaimers firmly in place, let's see what we have here!

TRACK ONE - Although the setting doesn't really suggest it as typical, I gotta go with my gut and say Hamp. Nobody else plays like that (unless they're doing it on purpose). But is that a bass clarinet on the intro? Whoever/whatever it is, I like it a lot. I like Hamp a lot, and even if this isn't him, oh well. It's got a good beat and I can dance to it...or I could dance to it if I could dance. But what's that bass clarinet?

TRACK TWO - Oh, that's Don Ellis with Al Francis. I slept on that record for too long a time. My loss. Some really fine music on that one, in both concept and execution. And if you listen to the contours of some of Ellis' lines, you can hear a similarity to Don Cherry. Don't think that was conscious one way or the toher, but when stuff is "in the air", well, air goes where air goes, ya' know?

TRACK THREE - Bags, might be MJQ, but that sounds like neither Atlantic nor John Lewis. Whatever, Milt Jackson is an archetype, epitome, whatever word you want to use, nothing about him sounds like anybody but Milt Jackson. Now that might be Ron Carter, but some liner note writer back in the say made the astute observation that Percy Heath was Ron Carter before Ron Carter (or something like that), so...no matter. This is deep in the pocket. Works for me.

TRACK FOUR - Never noticed until now how much the intro to A Love Supreme & Richie Powell's intro to "Joyspring" had in common. Who knew! There for a second I was thinking it might be Eddie Palmieri, but then, no, it should be McCoy, but the deeper into it it gets, the less sure I am of that. It sounds like it could be a Bobby Hutcherson tune, and that sounds lik Bobby Hutcherson, but once the dialogue begins, it sounds less and less like McCoy, so...I am confused. But I like the piece, even if it gets a little scattershot-ish on the part of the pianist as it goes along. Is that Chick Corea?

TRACK FIVE - Straight sound, no vibrato/tremelo, interesting...no idea who it is, but again, dead in the pocket, and recorded very nicely, clean and direct. Drums might be pulled back just a tad, but they always are...c'est la vie. IT ain't gonna ruin my day.

TRACK SIX - Don't know that I'm in the mood for this right now, but if I was, I think I'd like it well enough. Not into that tenor player, though, and I do find the tempo just a tad too fast for the vibe (pun inevitable, but wholly unintended) of the chart. Slower would bring out the drama of the unexpected parts of the changes. At this tempo, it just sounds flip/coy/clever. That's what happens when all the old folks die, I suppose. Just my opinion. But now we got a return of the tenor player, and I'm wondering if that's not Ricky Ford? The vibist, though, is The Obstetrician - he's delivering!

TRACK SEVEN - Sure sounds like Gary Burton, the tone on the intro...maybe not so much once the band comes in, but I don't follow Gary Burton all that much, so maybe it is. Or maybe it isn't. so that's a solid I don't know. But listening close, I don't hear the four mallet thing going on, for whatever that might be worth. There is some really precise rapid execution, though, and the only guy I know of who's that precise is Walt Dickerson, who is definitely not Gary Burton.

TRACK EIGHT - Everything sounds like Bags except the vibrato...early Bags? Less like Bags after the piano solo (and that's an interesting piano solo, btw, almost Jimmy Rowles-like in places, but not in all places...and same thing about Ahmad Jamal-is in some/not all places)). Definitely has a Van Gelder sound to it, though, so that narrows it down...to, like, what, 250 or fewer possibilities, and makes it less likely to be early Bags? Also like the drummer, but the bass player...good time and tone, but pretty unimaginative note choices, sounds like he's reading the tune. Not a bad thing, just sayin'.

TRACK NINE - That's a pretty involved arrangement. Involved, but not fussy. Everything has its purpose, no placeholding. In that sense, it could be Teddy Charles, but that doesn't really sound like Teddy Charles to me. No matter, whoever it is, it's working.

TRACK TEN - Wow, that's tight! Is this some early Shearing thing? Yeah, that's it. Denzil Best for sure, those brushes! The other guys, I don't know who. But that head, that's some tight shit right there, yeah!

TRACK ELEVEN - Some contrafact of "Love Me Or Leave Me". Early Bags, on Savoy, w/John Lewis & Ray Brown? It's funny, this is, hearing Ray Brown almost bully John Lewis' time during his (Lewis') solo, definitely two different (and strong) concepts pushing against each other, You can hear right there that that wasn't gonna last! Of coure, if that's not who it is, then...not so funny.

TRACK TWELVE - "Tenderly"...almost Hamp. Almost. Can i guess Red Norvo & be right? Didn't think so...Pretty straight rendition, no real "improvisation", mostly embellishments, but that's not bad in and of itself. Sounds more like a set piece than anything really "digging in". Nice, for what it is.

TRACK THIRTEEN - "If You Could See Me Now"...I'd know who you were..nicely proficient and tasty, but maybe a little too "preset" for my liking, at least at this moment. And oh, bassist, uh...Rufus Reid? Or somebody else with consistently personal intonation?

TRACK FOURTEEN - I like this a lot. Kinda reminds be of the Jerry Gonzalez album on American Clave, with Hilton Ruiz, but I don't remember this being on there. But I like how the rhythm doesn't try to get "Latin-Jazz"-y by adding all the extras (especially cymbals), they keep it a quartet, and the conguero handles his business without trying to "simulate", if that makes any sense. And the pianist doesn't go all montuno-y, which is great if that's where you're at, but not the only way to do things, ok? Whoever this group is, they sound like people who have all played together enough to be familiar with the deeper aspects of each others ways. Ultimately, I think, that's what you want, a merging of individuals, not jsut a group of people playing at the same time, no matter how well they might be doing it. That composition, also, that's nice. Hell the whole thing is nice. not "nice, but nice, if you knwo what I mean. More music like this, world, please!

TRACK FIFTEEN - Sure sounds like Ron Carter & Bags on a CTI album that was never released, maybe one of the bare tracks they recorded and then had Sebesky write ex posto facto charts to accompany. But to the best of my knowledge, such a thing does not exist, so you got me. But that's gotta be Ron Carter, and on a good day...unless it's Buster Williams (the number of bassists who can thrive under that tight of a microscope on this type of tune playing like this are very, very few, and buster was next in line if it wasn't Ron), and hello, that's who it is, with Roy Ayers, no less! Geez, I've had this album since the 70s and never really dug into it that much. Just backed into this ID, but there it is! http://www.discogs.com/Buster-Williams-Crystal-Reflections/release/2060125

TRACK SIXTEEN - Geez, I should know that tune...sounds like an Eddie Harris thing played by a Grant Green/Larry Young group on a Big John Patton record...might be a contemporary retro band, or maybe some underground local group of its time. The drums sound digitally recorded, though, so my guess is a retro band. some things just don't happen until they're invented. But not before, Nothing can happen before it actually happens. Then it can happen all it wants. But that's in no way a dis or a slight - they sound good. I'd definitely catch a set or two if they were in a bar in my town. Definitely and gladly.

TRACK SEVENTEEN - Sure sounds like Shearing. If #10 is in fact Shearing, I like it more than this.I am bugged by the time on this one, perhaps most of all the bassist, who never really locks in with anybody. Or maybe it's Shearing's fault - even back in yonder days, if you exposed him too much on a swing feel, he'd get all un-pockety. But really, I think it's just a sign of the times, more detail available in recording exposes more and the less carved in stone you are, the more you risk getting magnified, flaws as well as greatness, as they happen. I've heard Shearing get a pocket going on Afro-Cuban grooves, but this calypso/swing thing is just not in his wheelhouse.

Very nice compilation, Mike. Nothing on here I already knew to any great degree, and a lot of music that is more thoughtfully arranged than just a blowing type thing. I always enjoy that when it's done with thoughtfulness, and here, it is. Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't been able to identify any of the artists/musicians. I'm not really familiar with vibraphonists and for some reason I'd never expected to like it so much. So it brought me another field I still want to explore and discover. I did recognize some standards but since others beat me to it in mentioning them, I figured my chance had passed. :blush:
That were My Funny Valentine, Tenderly and My beautiful love which I've found in that order.
It is funny to read that others hear parts of songs; same as JSngry I heard the part of Love me or leave me in track 11 but figured I was mistaken since it went the other way. I had that with Beautiful love too

Okay, in short my thoughts, feelings about this wonderful compilation:
No. 1 very fast, happy song. I have no clue.
No. 2 I really like the muted trumpet, really nice theme
No. 3 I think I know the song, but can't come up with the title, but it is a 12 bar blues. Really nice. Blues can never be too much.
No. 4 luscious piano intro :) a bit too many notes for me, I like it more simple. Some phrases sound familiar but I have no clue which song it is. When drums and vibes join in, I like it more although it stays kind of crowded all over. Maybe just not my cup of tea.
No. 5 Beautiful Love - while it is usually played in 4/4 of course it was a jazz waltz originally but I didn't think of that straight away and so I did came and discovered that at a later stage. :blush: I heard some phrases of This Masquerade and Cry me a river strangly enough at first in it but neither are waltzes, so I was really confused at first, lol. I know musicians like to use parts of others songs sometimes when the changes are similar. That can be confusing sometimes, also when they play a song in another time measure than you are familiar with. I like it as a bossa myself. Lovely song.
No. 6 The intro sounded like a Maynard Ferguson tune. It actually reminded me of a song which was played in the big band I was in for some years. I can’t come up with the title right now. Very nice song, lovely vibraphone and tenor solo.
No. 7 A bit too crowded at some places for me. I have no clue here either.
No. 8 lovely ballad, beautiful playing. I really like the pianist as well on this one. Although phrases sound familiar, I can’t come up with a title.
No. 9 starting out as a ballad. Stunning vibraphone playing. Then up the tempo goes. Overall really nice song. No clue which.
No. 10 I think I know the theme but again no title that comes up. Happy song. Although played in swing for a large piece I feel a latin vibe with it somehow.
No. 11 Like I said I hear phrases of Love me or leave me it this one, but it isn’t it.
No. 12 Tenderly, I did find an artist playing it solo but it wasn’t this one.
No. 13 I think I know this song as well, but can’t come up with the title. Really nice rendition and live is always a pleasure to listen to I think.
No 14. No clue, love the percussion. Really nice, happy song.
No. 15 My Funny Valentine - I think this is my favourite track of them all, a duet with the bass. I did recognize the song straight away this time and this inspired me to write something for myself, although not yet finished I love it when I get ideas from others simply because of their lovely playing. This is a stunning rendition.
No. 16 The first thought in my head was that it was a schooltv program tune. or at least it sounds like it. The time I watched that stuff is some time ago and it is probably not right but I kind of like the idea. It has a bit of funk and overall groovy vibe which I like.
No. 17 seems a children's song, I think I know it but I can't come up with anything.


So I still need to learn so much, that much is clear to me, but I really enjoyed the music and hadn't expected to like the vibraphone so much but I really did. As a singer I tend to prefer the ballads, which were overall gorgeous, but I did enjoy the faster tunes with the exception of just 2 songs which were not really my cup of tea but nice to learn about. I think you can only develop your taste by listening to everything and some music needs to grow on you before you learn to appreciate it. Well Mike, thanks again that I could participate as newbie and for the lovely music. I really appreciate that. My hat is off to my fellow game players who discovered the answers!
Happy holidays to all of you here! :)
kind regards, page

Edited by page
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...