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Copy Protection


neveronfriday

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Hi everyone,

I hear lots of yelling and screaming about copy protection and I have regularly joined the chorus when it comes to demanding that copy protection be removed from CDs.

What I'm wondering is this: I have quite a few copy-protected CDs (the European Blue Note releases, f. ex.) AND I am quite a picky listener with a more than decent stereo, but so far I have not been able to hear any of the often-cited decline in sound quality, even when comparing Blue Note CDs with and without copy-protection.

I am aware of the fact that error correction can be hampered by copy-protected CDs which have gotten more or less scratched, but setting this issue aside, I'm wondering ...

a) if anyone here can actually substantiate these claims of reduced sound quality (where's the proof, I wonder, especially when stepping away from HiFi magazines' laboratories and into someone's living room), meaning: can anyone actually name (for example) a Blue Note CD that sounds different or worse with copy-protection than without and give some more details (=proof)?

B) Can anyone provide a decent (=serious tests, opinions by experts, etc.) link to a page where I can read up on this and where I can find some proof provided by discerning listeners that goes beyond the usual parrot-like repetition of the same line that copy-protection ruins sound quality (without giving any proof)?

Thanks!

Cheers!

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I remember Reinier (BlueRein) posted about this topic some time ago. He mentioned Cuscuna had actually asked him to do the A/B test on some of the conns. From memory he stated that there was less air around the instruments on the copy-prot disks. I'll try and find the thread.

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I remember Reinier (BlueRein) posted about this topic some time ago. He mentioned Cuscuna had actually asked him to do the A/B test on some of the conns. From memory he stated that there was less air around the instruments on the copy-prot disks. I'll try and find the thread.

Thanks couw.

And while you're doing that, this:

I've spent the past three months researching this topic as much as was possible because I have been investing quite a bit of money in my ever-growing CD collection and am, of course, reluctant to buy inferior CDs. So, what I was wondering was if I should be ordering my stuff from the UK or the US just to avoid copy protection whenever possible. This would certainly, in the long run, be much more expensive (we're talking anywhere between 500 and 3000 CDs).

Fact is that besides the arguments which attack copy protection on a basis of principle, arguments which I agree with 100% (!), everything I have read about copy-protection influencing sound quality aside from the above mentioned case of scratched CDs and error correction (which is certainly serious enough!), I have not found a single substantiated case of a copy-protected Blue Note CD sounding different from one without CP.

There have been instances where audiophiles have in one way or another voiced their rather esoteric descriptions of the lack of "air", "room" and whatnot, but trying to substantiate that together with a larger group of hifi fans from my area on a stero setup with Macintosh amps (4) and Dynaudio speakers in the $100.000 range (yes, that's what they cost) at my local dealer and later on every member's usually excellent stereo, we unanimously came to the conclusion that it was utter BS and more likely a judgement tainted by principle opposition to copy protection.

That's why I'm asking here.

Cheers!

[quickly edited for typos]

Edited by deus62
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Why are record companies wasting money on this? It's a complete waste of resource. You wanna copy a "copy-protected" BN release? Take the analog outputs of your CD player and hook them up to the input of your computer's sound card and record it.

Viola. And I doubt you'll be able to hear the difference between the "analog" copy and the original CD.

Stupid.

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@deus: the last BN I bought was the Van Morrison via UK as they offered the "oversea's version"... what I got was a Canadian CD which had the Copy Protected Label printed as wellas a nice green inlet saying that EMI wanted to thank me for buying (and not copying) this record.. as said.. my last blue note buy

Cheers, Tjobbe

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If you will only be satisfied by 'proof' one way or the other, then you will never be satisfied, and you can't really ask others to take responsibility for your decision at this level. My best guess is that resale value of copy protected CDs will be lower, because distrust of the technology is likely to become widespread as more and more people put them into PCs and car stereos, and audiophile collectors won't touch them. Before long this technology will be superseded and disks carrying this technology will look old fashioned and undesirable.

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If you will only be satisfied by 'proof' one way or the other, then you will never be satisfied, and you can't really ask others to take responsibility for your decision at this level.

i don't think he's asking for anyone to take responsibility for his decision. he's merely asking for some objective information on which to form his own judgment. so, has michael c. corroborated reinier's observations or not?

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If you will only be satisfied by 'proof' one way or the other, then you will never be satisfied, and you can't really ask others to take responsibility for your decision at this level.

i don't think he's asking for anyone to take responsibility for his decision. he's merely asking for some objective information on which to form his own judgment. so, has michael c. corroborated reinier's observations or not?

Exactly.

Thanks jazzshrink.

And I don't give a hoot about the resale value of copy protected CDs possibly being lower. I know that hearses don't have luggage racks, but I really don't care what happens to my CD collection once I'm no more. Until then, I intend to keep it.

Besides, everyone is scrambling to get his/her hands on SACDs, praising them for their sound, and they already have copy-protection (watermark) built in, so to speak. How come nobody is complaing about that?

I just want someone to name a few CDs that have inferior sound so I can go and check. That's all.

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Darknoise actually modifies the audio of the songs slightly. If those songs are then copied--even by holding a tape recorder in front of a stereo speaker--the formerly inaudible Darknoise addition becomes audible and makes the copy unlistenable, the company claims.

Jim, you could install such a copy protection processor in your organ, so there will be fewer bootlegs of your concerts floating around.

Or they will be sold as newly discovered Sun Ra recordings :lol:

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Jim, you could install such a copy protection processor in your organ, so there will be fewer bootlegs of your concerts floating around.

:g Nah... I fully intend to put the following message in our next CD's booklet and/or case:

"Thank you for purchasing this disc. If you think a friend might like it, go ahead a make a copy."

The more the merrier, in my opinion.

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  • 3 weeks later...

There was a similar post in BNBB that I started, Claude should remember it.

I bought a copy of Bowie Ziggie Stardust, my brand new Lynn cd player could not read it.

Lynn answer me that their cd player are Red Book based, so if the copy protection cd does not match the red book standard, the player consider it as a data cd.

I gave the cd back to the shop.

The last RVG BN bunch I bought was copy protected, and my cd player spend a lot of time to read the toc of cd, sometimes it could not read it and I have to reset the cd (swich off).

I do not have done a A/B comparison, so I do not know if the sonic quality is lower but:

1 it is very annoyingly to reset the cd

2 it is very very annoyingly I could not listen to some cds

3 it is very stupid, and annoyingly for the customers, to prevent private copy when an industrial copy is possible (via analog cd output) if this is the real goal of copy protection.

4 I burned several copy of Dylan cds for my nephew without any problems (Hybrid Sacd are not, until now, copy protected)

I could not understand the real goal of music industry, but my behavoir after experienced this copy protected cd was the following:

I upgrade my analog set up and start to buy only Lps, used and new, of old stuff.

I do not care anymore of rererereremastered cd, just waiting to find a good used Lp or Lp reissues.

I still buy new cd of modern artist if vinyl is not issued.

When I find some cd reissue that I really I could not live without I order it in USA via Mosaic.

BTW the sonic quality of a good vinyl is, IMMO unbeatable.

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  • 10 years later...

Oh dear, just tried to play my copy protected Horace Silver and the Jazz Messengers cd. My reasonably new Arcam mini says "no music files". Fortunately it plays in my computer and appears to have copied satisfactorily. This begs the question how many others are not going to play. Being in the UK I have quite a few Blue Note/EMI cds with copy protection. Not a happy situation.

Anyone else still experiencing problems with copy protection.

Edited by JohnS
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Try ripping an exact copy to a new CD blank, either by using Toast or similar software on your computer, or by using a digital connection (via a Toslink cable) between a CD player and a recordable CD player. Then see if the new rip will play in your Arcam. I've had good success with this technique.

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Thanks mjzee. The discs do copy using NERO and play in the Arcam. At least the couple I've tried do. I don't real;y feel like having to copy ten or so cds though. Probably it will have to be done.

Unfortunately copy protection coincided with a wealth of BN and PJ issues.

The moral here is if you are buying a new cd player and you have some of these discs, check that they play first.

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I could *never* figure out how to copy one of those ... but gladly some of those Blue Notes I bought as copycraps have by now been reissued again in Japan. Still, a few remain that I'd love to replace as well, but those OOP Conns aren't exactly cheap (and they might indeed be copycrap again). Would still love to replace "Tex Book Tenor" and "Like Someone In Love" with proper CDs eventually ("The Flip" is out in Japan as well, but I've not re-bought it yet, already did re-buy "Of Love and Peace" and "Mother Ship").

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Found another that will not play. It's most likely to be a problem specific to my cd player but so disappointing that after ten years this disaster has raised it's ugly head again.

I had a similar problem John until I returned my CD player to Naim for a firmware update, which got rid of the issue. Damned annoying though !

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