Charlie Parker - Dean Benedetti Mosaic

[Soulstation1]

bird on 52nd street is probably good enough for me.

i spunit a few months back and nothing changed.

this was my second parker cd and thats probably why my parker collection is weak.

ss1

[Jazzmoose]

I hear you, soulstation! It was my second as well, and a good reason why it took me so long to bite on the Dial/Savoy set.

Brad, you make a good point, but I'm sure you'll agree that you're a bigger Bird fan than I am. While Parker's influence cannot be overstated, I don't have the same impression that I can't have too much of him. Admittedly, a jazz "collection" with little or no Bird is obviously missing a cornerstone, but in most cases I've opted for breadth rather than a highly focused approach. Mind you, I still think Bird is underrepresented on my shelves. I have the Complete Dial/Savoy set, The Quintet, Diz and Bird at Carnegie Hall, Bird at Storyville, the 52nd St. disc, and a couple of CDs that have been made redundant by the Dial/Savoy set. I feel that there are glaring holes in having none of the Verve studio material, and no JATP stuff at all. Pathetic holes. But I really don't feel a burning desire to get the Benedetti set at all. I'd much rather take that money and get, say, the Django set, an artist I have nothing by.

[brownie]

I have a couple of questions for those who find that the quality of the music outweighs any drawbacks posed by the inclusion trivial material.

If you had a choice of purchasing a less expensive set that included only the musical performances (i.e. no 3-5-second alto blips, no train passing by the window, etc.) would you not opt for that?

If so, don't you find Schaap's obsession with frivolous sounds to be a flaw in this release?

My point was that a more sensibly programmed set would have allowed more affordable pricing, thus making these Parker performances available to more people.

Chris, I confess to being a Charlie Parker completist.

Waiting now for Uptown to come out with the Dizzy/Bird 1945 concert as I was waiting for Mosaic to release the Benedetti box - and that took some time!. The box is for Bird lovers. And the way the available material was presented filled my expectations.

Jazz fans who want to test Bird waters have plenty of excellent albums available with complete well-recorded sides.

I shall also repeat that I think Phil Schaap's minutia was just fine for me.

I have nothing against his obsession with chasing (and sharing) all details of Parker's life.

That box was one of Mosaic's finest achievement.

[Christiern]

I have nothing against his [Phil Schaap's] obsession with chasing (and sharing) all details of Parker's life.

I have no problem with his chasing and sharing details of Parker's life, but there is a lot of stuff in that set which has nothing at all to do with Charlie Parker, and while you may want every cough and sneeze, every second of sound, most consumers buy a Charlie Parker album to hear Charlie Parker play--not a 3-second presumed snippet of "Lover Man."

My point was simply--and here I speak as someone who has produced a number of reissues--that I think it is foolish to aim strictly at the completist or buyers with a collector's craving for minutiae. Foolish, because it can--as is the case here--increase the price of the album. It also forces the average listener to sit through a lot of meaningless, irrelevant material.

Phil, of course, is not just a completist, he has on several occasions simply invented "discoveries" in order to perpetuate a largely self-proclaimed authority. He has claimed discovery of hitherto unknown tracks that had, in fact, been released previously (one reason Verve dumped him), and he has edited tape to sensationalize, as in the case of "Mahalia Swears," an outrageously dishonest, gratuitous track on his Black, Brown, and Beige reissue (one of several factors that led to Columbia dropping him.

Enough about Phil, but I hope you get my point re the Benedetti release.

[JSngry]

And “NoHM” after a selection stands for "No audible Howard McGhee.” Can you believe that? Most of the recordings in my sizeable collection fall into that category.

Damn it Chris, some of us are drinking coffee in front of the computer!

I WILL get this set some day. I know its faults, and yeah, a little culling (of some of the minutae mentioned here) sounds sensible, but dammit, it's Bird, and that's all I need to know.

[brownie]

I have nothing against his [Phil Schaap's] obsession with chasing (and sharing) all details of Parker's life.

I have no problem with his chasing and sharing details of Parker's life, but there is a lot of stuff in that set which has nothing at all to do with Charlie Parker, and while you may want every cough and sneeze, every second of sound, most consumers buy a Charlie Parker album to hear Charlie Parker play--not a 3-second presumed snippet of "Lover Man."

My point was simply--and here I speak as someone who has produced a number of reissues--that I think it is foolish to aim strictly at the completist or buyers with a collector's craving for minutiae. Foolish, because it can--as is the case here--increase the price of the album. It also forces the average listener to sit through a lot of meaningless, irrelevant material.

Phil, of course, is not just a completist, he has on several occasions simply invented "discoveries" in order to perpetuate a largely self-proclaimed authority. He has claimed discovery of hitherto unknown tracks that had, in fact, been released previously (one reason Verve dumped him), and he has edited tape to sensationalize, as in the case of "Mahalia Swears," an outrageously dishonest, gratuitous track on his Black, Brown, and Beige reissue (one of several factors that led to Columbia dropping him.

Enough about Phil, but I hope you get my point re the Benedetti release.

Chris, I agree with your non-Parker comments on Phil Schaap. As for the Parker part, I'm ready to take everything. Coughs, sneezes and all. Besides Parker, Lester Young is the only other musician I want to hear all of what's available.

As I already said, the Mosaic set is for Parker freaks. Those who just want to listen and enjoy the non-truncated music (I can understand that!) have plenty of albums to choose from.

And when I was in and around New York (which has not occured for the past couple of years) I tried to tune in on Schaap's broadcasts on Parker. No better way to start a New York day. Is he still doing those shows?

[mmilovan]

Chris, I agree with your non-Parker comments on Phil Schaap. As for the Parker part, I'm ready to take everything. Coughs, sneezes and all. Besides Parker, Lester Young is the only other musician I want to hear all of what's available.

brownie,

strange, the same is with me.

Is it too hard task for someone's life?

[paul secor]

I've listened to the entire set only once. Still, I'm glad that it's there any time I want to hear any part of it again. It's Bird - what more can I say?

[kh1958]

I've listened to the entire set only once. Still, I'm glad that it's there any time I want to hear any part of it again. It's Bird - what more can I say?

Same here, only one time.

[jazzbo]

Mosaic OWNS this material, and obviously they hired Phil to do the job they wanted: the complete material, not nipped and tucked.

This seems to be their intent, commercially viable or not, aimed I guess AT the completist, which after all is not an unusual target audience for a company that puts "Complete" (true or NOT) in the title of most of their releases.

So if this were Universal or EMI putting this out I think some of these points about deleting some parts of this are valid. As this is Mosaic's own material, and they are not excising bits and pieces, it seems to be their intention for this to be issued complete. I'm happy that it is! As mentioned elsewhere, there's plenty of other Bird for jazz fans to buy. I'm glad that this was issued just as it is. And when asked for opinions about the set, I have to say "I love you just the way you are". . . .

[ghost of miles]

I've listened to the entire set only once. Still, I'm glad that it's there any time I want to hear any part of it again. It's Bird - what more can I say?

Same here, only one time.

This thread is actually making me want to re-visit it. I, too, have listened all the way through only once, but I remember it being a pleasurable experience...

[Christiern]

Does anybody here get the idea that Lonson likes Phil's approach to this album?

[Chuck Nessa]

For other reasons - I've had my Phil. IMHO he is a self-serving phoney. He's more interested in himself than the music fan/collector. Chris has his number!

[Abution II]

I finally broke down after reading this thread and picked up the Parker set. I have only listened to part of the set so far, but I agree with the board members that the set is definitely worthwhile. Even the first two discs (which I assume have the worst audio quality and most abrupt cuts) are very enjoyable. In fact, I find that I do not miss the opening and closing riffs of those songs. Parker's solos are entire songs unto themselves, and more interesting IMHO than on the Royal Roost and Savoy/Dial recordings.

Thanks for the push, guys!

[Bright Moments]

i'm still on the fence. i almost bought it and then i read chris's excellent, balanced review.

it is interesting to me that mosaic has chosen not to put up any samples on the web page.

http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.asp?number=129-MD-CD

oh and this description strikes me as humorous:

The Complete Benedetti Recordings of Charlie Parker (#129)

ORDER NOW!

Limited Edition: Unlimited copies

7 CDs - $112.00

how can it be a "limited edition" if there are "unlimited copies" that will be sold so long as mosaic is in business??!!

i'll probably pick it up (eventually), but not today.

B-)

[Bright Moments]

btw -- is the set numbered? i wonder what number they are up to?

[jazzbo]

Hey, they cut off part of my review!

I have this set from many years back. . . I believe it is numbered, but the number won't mean anything in regards to what the number may be now.

[Jazzmoose]

how can it be a "limited edition" if there are "unlimited copies" that will be sold so long as mosaic is in business??!!

That's kind of scary if you think about it...

[Ron S]

how can it be a "limited edition" if there are "unlimited copies" that will be sold so long as mosaic is in business??!!  

That's kind of scary if you think about it...

The possibilities are limitless.

[Brad]

This is a numbered set and whether it's limited or not is irrelevant (the LP version obviously wasn't). The reason that there are no music bites on the web site is obvious: the sound is not that good and the can only be appreciated by sustained listening. One little fragment will probably turn you off.

This is a set worth picking up, minor criticisms aside. If you can't tolerate bad sound or are not a Parker disciple, then this set is not for you. But if you love Bird like I do, the set is a must.

It seems that this thread or the idea for it gets trotted out on a pretty routine basis.

[Ed S]

I just picked this up about a month ago. It was actually on back order for a while but they finally shipped it.

My booklet is not numbered.

[Ed S]

LOVE the set, by the way.

[Clunky]

All the recent noise regarding supporting Mosaic has me considering this set. I guess I must be a Parker fan. Not counted how many CDs I have but would expect it to be in the region of 30 CDs plus 10 LPs. My question is regarding just how bad the sound quality. How would it compare to Charlie Parker's sessions in Paris ( which in parts sound really terrible) or is it closer to Rockland Ballroom ( which sound pretty good to me) or for that matter any of the following which I have already ???

Boston (Uptown), Montreal (Uptown), Washington (Uptown), Boston ( Bluenote), Storyville ( Bluenote), Sweden (Spotlite) , ....etc

[Dave James]

Some of the sound is relatively good and some is downright awful. Also, keep in mind that Benedetti for the most part only recorded Bird's solos, so the set is made up largely of snippets as opposed to entire tunes. Still, if you're a Parker fan, and it sounds like you are, I would consider this to be an essential part of his discography. Just know what you're getting into before you take the plunge.

Up over and out.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Dave James

[papsrus]

All the recent noise regarding supporting Mosaic has me considering this set. I guess I must be a Parker fan. Not counted how many CDs I have but would expect it to be in the region of 30 CDs plus 10 LPs. My question is regarding just how bad the sound quality. How would it compare to Charlie Parker's sessions in Paris ( which in parts sound really terrible) or is it closer to Rockland Ballroom ( which sound pretty good to me) or for that matter any of the following which I have already ???

Boston (Uptown), Montreal (Uptown), Washington (Uptown), Boston ( Bluenote), Storyville ( Bluenote), Sweden (Spotlite) , ....etc

this article gives some idea about the sound quality of the various recording sessions. I'm waiting for this one to come off back order status as well.