Hardbopjazz

10 most influential jazz artists of all time.

56 posts in this topic

01. Pops

02. Duke

03. Bird

04. Newk

05. Bud

06. Coltrane

07. Brownie

08. Bud

09. Monk

10. Tatum

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For those wanting to skip the video, it says...

  1. Pops
  2. Mingus
  3. Trane
  4. Miles
  5. Wynton
  6. Bird
  7. Chick
  8. Benny
  9. Duke
  10. Herbie
Edited by Rooster_Ties

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Louis Armstrong, Lester Young, Charlie Parker, Coleman Hawkins, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Bill Evans. In terms of influence, these guys seem in a class of their own. Most influential BTW does not mean "the best" in my book. Evans's influence has been immense, but he seems a flawed player to me.

The list cited in the first post seems semi-absurd in some cases. I love Mingus, but "most influential"? Marsalis? Ellington is a giant, but how much that's that great has flowed from him? He's sui generis by and large. Goodman influenced a lot of clarinetists, but how much of a major impact did any of them make themselves? Hawkins, by contrast, gave rise to near numberless players of high stature and individuality. Coltrane somewhere in between I suppose -- near numberless players have been influenced, some of them individual, many not so much. I wonder about Bix. Influential for sure and in highly individual, subtle, lovely way, but influential enough? Also, was the Bixian strain of influence perhaps a bit elusive in nature compared to that of Parker, for example?

P.S. Bud and Rollins, too, maybe Clifford Brown.

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In no particular order

1 Armstrong

2 Duke

3 Lester/Hawk

4 Billie

5 Bird

6 Monk

7 Blakey

8 Trane

9 Miles

10 Mingus

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Armstrong

Ellington

Lester

Bird

Bud Powell

Miles

Clifford Brown

Monk

Coltrane

Bill Evans

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In no particular order

1 Armstrong

2 Duke

3 Lester/Hawk

4 Billie

5 Bird

6 Monk

7 Blakey

8 Trane

9 Miles

10 Mingus

I was just about to say, Where are the singers?

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Louis Armstrong, Lester Young, Charlie Parker, Coleman Hawkins, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Bill Evans. In terms of influence, these guys seem in a class of their own. Most influential BTW does not mean "the best" in my book. Evans's influence has been immense, but he seems a flawed player to me.

P.S. Bud and Rollins, too, maybe Clifford Brown.

I don't understand Miles in this list of the pantheon of most influential. Miles is sui generis as you put it for Duke. What trumpeters after Miles sound like Miles? Maybe I'm missing someone but they all seem to come from Dizzy/Clifford or Freddie Hubbard.

I think Bud and Clifford have to be on the list of most influential.

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As a bassist Mingus certainly helped bring the instrument out further into the foreground, paving the way for people like Garrison, Haden, Peacock and Izenzon. As a composer, it's a little tougher to make the claim.

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Since no mention so far, Ornette Coleman!!

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Louis Armstrong, Lester Young, Charlie Parker, Coleman Hawkins, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Bill Evans. In terms of influence, these guys seem in a class of their own. Most influential BTW does not mean "the best" in my book. Evans's influence has been immense, but he seems a flawed player to me.

P.S. Bud and Rollins, too, maybe Clifford Brown.

I don't understand Miles in this list of the pantheon of most influential. Miles is sui generis as you put it for Duke. What trumpeters after Miles sound like Miles? Maybe I'm missing someone but they all seem to come from Dizzy/Clifford or Freddie Hubbard.

I think Bud and Clifford have to be on the list of most influential.

Yes, I've put Bud and Clifford. As for Miles, think of his legacy in weakening the hold of bop with his Coltrane, Garland, Chambers, Philly quintet, the continuing influence up to today of his Shorter, Hancock, Williams quintet and the impact of his "electric" period. Ellington, too, was hugely influential on just about everyone who wrote and arranged jazz after him, Mingus incuded, who I don't think should be on the list BTW. Didn't Miles say somehting like "All the cats should get down on their knees and thank Duke"?

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Yeah I was thinking purely of instrumental influence where obviously both quintets, but especially the second, were very influential on the music following.

Not digging the electric Miles, I don't really care about how it influenced others. :w:P

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Yeah I was thinking purely of instrumental influence where obviously both quintets, but especially the second, were very influential on the music following.

Not digging the electric Miles, I don't really care about how it influenced others. :w:P

I don't dig it either, but the influence can't be denied. <_<

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Ignoring vocalists, here my stab at this (in order of greatest influence -- though I totally get the argument that Duke should be lower on this list, but I'm really torn). I also feel Ornette should be on here, but I'm not sure if he should be (or not) -- much as I want him to be.

  1. Pops
  2. Duke
  3. Bird
  4. Miles (more as a jazz auteur, and for his sense of space/timing, than his influence on trumpet(ers) per se)
  5. Trane
  6. I want to say Monk, but it's probably really Bud
  7. Bill Evans
  8. Brownie
  9. Max Roach (if not, then Blakey, but I'd give it to Max - not that I really know in terms of "influence")
  10. maybe Jimmy Smith? (in a nod to our good caretaker)

Who am I forgetting, and who would you kick off my list to make space to include them??

Interestingly, the only people I've listed that I personally have a "way bigger than average" appreciation/obsession for/with are Miles, and maybe Max Roach (though to a lot lesser extent than Miles). And lterally NONE of the others (above) are ones who I'd rank as being among my all-time top-tier favorites on their respective instruments.

For instance, if I were to not take any of this "greatest influence stuff" too seriously (and I "over-elevated" some people as a result) -- my list might include more people like Herbie Hanckock, Joe Henderson, and Woody Shaw -- all of whom were very influential (I might even argue Joe as being THE most influential tenor player, in terms of CURRENT influence, over the last 20 years say). But what about Wayne? Where does he go in all this? Top 20, sure. Top 10? - probably not. And I'd LOVE to include Larry Young, but realistically - he's not been that influential (to say nothing of Andrew Hill, also a "not so much"). Now Lee Morgan is huge influence (I think), but realistically you can't have any more than Pops, Brownie, and Miles on the same list (if it's limited to top-10) -- and Lee comes out of Browie (as does Freddie Hubbard, Charles Tolliver, and even Woody Shaw). And if any bass player would deserve to be on the list, I guess it probably would be Mingus (much as I'd rather include Dave Holland, for instance). And I'd love to include Gil Evans, but really, is he even top-20?

Again, look at my original list -- who's missing, and who would you take off my list to make room for them?

Edited by Rooster_Ties

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What a herculean task! I don't know how any list could exclude Lester Young.

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Absurd that any list would not include Ornette Coleman and Cecil Taylor

Unless as many people demonstrate here and elsewhere that all really great jazz was made over 40 years ago.

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Unless as many people demonstrate here and elsewhere that all really great jazz was made over 40 years ago.

That was in question? ^_^

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Armstrong

Ellington

Lester

Bird

Bud Powell

Miles

Clifford Brown

Monk

Coltrane

Bill Evans

if the list could be extended, my candidates would be Jelly Roll, Hawkins, Charlie Christian, Jimmy Blanton, Kenny Clarke, Rollins and Ornette.

Edited by BillF

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Uh, Dave Holland does not belong on such a list.

Didn't say he did (even I know that'd be crazy). Just said "much as I might like it".

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Louis Armstrong, Lester Young, Charlie Parker, Coleman Hawkins, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Bill Evans. In terms of influence, these guys seem in a class of their own. Most influential BTW does not mean "the best" in my book. Evans's influence has been immense, but he seems a flawed player to me.

P.S. Bud and Rollins, too, maybe Clifford Brown.

I don't understand Miles in this list of the pantheon of most influential. Miles is sui generis as you put it for Duke. What trumpeters after Miles sound like Miles? Maybe I'm missing someone but they all seem to come from Dizzy/Clifford or Freddie Hubbard.

I think Bud and Clifford have to be on the list of most influential.

A whole lot of trumpeters were influenced per se by the Miles of 1955-65, it seems to me (not that it's all one Miles from 1955-65), and further there's the whole modal bag that he innovated/popularized around the time of "Kind of Blue," which became the lingua franca of a lot of jazz for a good while, for better or worse.

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Armstrong

Ellington

Lester

Bird

Bud Powell

Miles

Clifford Brown

Monk

Coltrane

Bill Evans

if the list could be extended, my candidates would be Jelly Roll, Hawkins, Charlie Christian, Jimmy Blanton, Kenny Clarke, Rollins and Ornette.

Can't be extended. You gotta take names off, before you add any more back in. Top-10, that's the limit.

But you bring up a good point by including Charlie Christian (who I'd overlooked). Time to rethink my list.

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Armstrong

Ellington

Hawkins

Young

Parker

Navarro (yeah, I'd pick him over Brownie)

Powell

Monk

Coltrane

Blakey (focusing on the influence he had on everyone who ever passed through his band. Call it influence as a teacher/mentor.)

Dang, ten already?

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I'm waiting for Letterman's top 10 list. Should be interesting. Once he retires, he'll have a lot of time for listening. :cool:

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all those trumpet players and no Dizzy yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnGrF9S68fw

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