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Help needed re "jumper piece" for home speaker


mjzee

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I'm hoping someone here will have some knowledge or insight into this little issue of mine. I own a pair of TDL RTL3 speakers, bought maybe 20 years ago. They have the ability to be bi-wired (which I've never done). Each speaker therefore has 4 posts, and the two posts for each polarity are connected with a jumper piece, which looks a square C. I've lost one of these jumper pieces.

I'm not sure that TDL is still in business; their website has been "under construction" for a very long time, and emails to them get kicked back because of "bad domain." It seems this jumper piece is a very specialized piece, and I haven't seen them available through Ebay or any speaker parts web sites. I've effected a kludgy solution by connecting the two posts with a short piece of speaker wire, which I guess is working because nothing's blown up yet. Still, was wondering if anyone has insight into a better solution. TIA.

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Should be fine. If you sense any mismatch, you could fashion an identical speaker wire jumper for all the connections in place of the original. (I'm too fussy, this is what I would do).

If something like this would work it's very easy to find sets on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canare-4S11-11-AWG-Bi-Wire-Speaker-Jumper-Cable-Banana-to-Banana-Plugs-/151002125652?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item23286d9554

Banana to banana, spade to spade, spade to banana, etc.

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Excellent! Thank you, Lon. I bit the bullet today and ordered some new pieces from Emotiva: pre-amp, amp, and DAC. Other than my turntable, probably the first new pieces of stereo equipment I've bought in 2 decades or more. Kind of excited about it, so thought it was time to reexamine this jumper issue.

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I didn't get the XDA-2. I got the XPA-200 amp, XSP-1 preamp, and DC-1 DAC. Set it up yesterday. So far so good...nice clean sound, though bass response is underwhelming (which probably reflects my TDL speakers...I'll probably need to get a subwoofer sometime).

Ordering was a snap; they were very nice to deal with. They're having a great sale right now.

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Very nice! That looks like an outstanding system. I guess the DC-1 is a new product as the XDA-2 was the only DAC they were producing when I put my rig together.

And based on the fact that your system is slightly higher end than mine, I'd say your speakers are definitely the weak link as far as bass response goes. My system puts out some of the cleanest, fastest bass I've ever heard, price range be damned.

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Btw, if you have tapped your budget, but would still like to add a sub, I HIGHLY encourage you to audition the Bic America F12. It has been the darling of the audio world for a few years now, and can be had for under $200.

I've heard it and all I can say is that while it's not equal to my Velodyne CHT 15 (which, interestingly enough, was the darling of the audio world when I bought it), i wouldn't consider it a downgrade, really. It's that good.

Unless you're in the market for a $1,000 SVS, you won't find a better sub.

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If you have a pre-out for a subwoofer, then you can indeed change crossover points. I can do it on my UMC-200.

With that said, unless you have a sub attached, there is no crossover point to select or change because you're sending the full signal to your mains. Their crossovers are in charge of the dirty work after that.

Either way, you should mostly definitely not be at a loss for bass with the amp you're using. My UPA-500 puts out very clean and powerful bass.

Have you made sure all of your connections are correct? Got your speakers in-phase and all that good stuff? When you were fiddling with your homemade jumpers, you didn't accidentally plug your speaker cables into the top input, did you? And I don't mean that sound condescending whatsoever, because that is the kind of dumbass thing I'd likely get in a hurry and do...

Oh, and you should have a programmable EQ in your preamp menu settings somewhere.

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Yeah, I can see that. Those TDL's have a pair of 7" woofers, so they probably have a somewhat similar sound to my Polk R50's, which have a pair of 6 1/2" woofers. Both with front-firing ports. They simply can't move enough air on their own to replicate those lower frequencies. So I completely understand where you're coming from.

And I also agree, Emotiva makes some outrageously clean gear (and I'd LOVE to hear that DAC you ended up with!). It's clinical and unforgiving. If the mastering is marginal, it WILL be exposed. Lon tried to talk me into using the tube preamp I was considering for a headphone amp as an actual preamp with my Emotiva system, and I can certainly see the wisdom in doing so. It may be the perfect marriage of warm distortion and clinically cold amplification, which would possibly do the music more justice. I don't know...

As for subs, I only use one. I can see the wisdom of using two, but since I have my crossover set at 70Hz the bass is completely non-directional, so the soundstage doesn't suffer. Based upon tests I've seen online, my Dynaudio X12's start to roll off at 70Hz, and from what I've noticed, there is no drop off in that range when paired with my Velodyne sub.

Even better, your TDL's are rated down to 35Hz, which tells me they probably start to roll off around 50-55 Hz. So you could set your crossover there, and have absolutely no indication where the low end is coming from directionally. So in your case, one sub should be absolutely perfect. Depending on the sub you choose, you could even set the crossover higher taking most of the pressure off of your woofers, and letting their mids and highs shine. Which I would assume is their strength.

Either way, I'm excited for you! And kinda jealous about that badass DAC. ;)

Hope you find the perfect balance. And although I temporarily fell on my face yesterday by unintentionally over-thinking your situation, and stupidly ignoring the reality of jumpers on bi-wire ready speakers, I hope I've been able to give you some decent food for thought.

Please keep us updated on how things progress. You're already just a half step away from audio nirvana!

Just keep in mind, if you're going to start looking at subs, please look into the Bic America F12 I mentioned before. And if you're going to go $1,000+ then you need to look at the SVS line. They are THE class of the subwoofer world right now. And from what I've read of your TDL's, I see no reason why you'd need to "upgrade" from them if matched with an excellent sub. The smallest step up I took with my system rebuild was going from my R50's to my X12's. Yes, the X12's are an upgrade, but on nowhere near the same level as the definitive upgrade of the Emotiva gear vs. my old Harman Kardon receiver.

My Velodyne CHT 15 was the cock of the walk in its day, but from what I've heard Velodyne has taken a step backwards since then. So I cannot recommend them at this point.

But, do your own research. If I can help you with any questions, it would be my pleasure.

Edited by Scott Dolan
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I'm seriously considering the Bic F12; Amazon has it for $185.22, and I guess I'd need a cable. I do appreciate the insight you've provided. Besides the characteristics of the TDLs you've mentioned above, I'm also using them in a room with a thick carpet; probably sucks up all the bass right there.

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Room acoustics play a HUGE role. But, it's nothing to concern yourself with at the moment, IMO. Room treatments can be looked into later, but I seriously doubt you'll even care to bother. I certainly haven't. The deepest shag carpeting will not defeat a solid sub.

And yes, you'll definitely need a cable for the sub. And a RCA splitter (as the sub pre-out is a single RCA out, but the sub will require a L/R input). Both can be had for a decent price from Monoprice. Or, if you have a local Best Buy, you can get something just as good there.

Having auditioned it, I think you'll be overjoyed with the F12. It's a clean and powerful beast.

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I'm not sure I'd need a splitter. The Emotive pre-amp has 3 outputs for a subwoofer: left, right and summed. The F12 (from a picture of the back of the unit that someone posted on Amazon) has a left and right in the "From Receiver" section, and there's also a "sub in" jack on the right under 2 dials. So it looks like I could use either 2 cables for left and right, or one cable from "summed" to "sub in."

The Amazon product page for the F12 also shows a Mediabridge 15 ft. subwoofer cable for $9.99.

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Ahhhh...

See, the two subs I own are 15 and 20 years old, and they confusingly came with "stereo" RCA inputs. So I have to run a single RCA out from the preamp to a splitter to plug into the sub. But, I see what you're saying with the F12, as it does indeed have just a single RCA input. Which makes all the sense in the world. I always wondered what the hell the point was having a L/R input. I can see the speaker level inputs if you're intending to run your mains out from the sub, but...

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I can't find a pic online of the rear panel for my exact model, but this is nearly identical. Note the inputs.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_3/images/velodyne-ct-150-rear-panel-all.jpg

Fucking bizarre, isn't it?

And as I mentioned, my 20 year old JBL which now resides in the game room is the same way.

I'm glad manufacturers finally came to their senses.

Edited by Scott Dolan
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Got the subwoofer yesterday and hooked it up. Sounds very nice, Scott; thanks for the recommendation. The sound nicely complements my speakers; very smooth. I connected it pretty quickly, so I'm sure with time I'll be able to tweak the settings. Right now, for example, I'm letting the subwoofer handle the crossover; when I get time (which may not be for awhile), I'll try switching things so the preamp handles that, and we'll see whether there's an improvement. I was surprised by how big it is.

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Cool!

Yeah, finding the sweet spot in your sub settings can take a little time, effort, and patience. Room placement usually isn't a huge deal, but adjustable crossover settings, as well as volume and phase adjustments are done through much trial and error. You'll get it exactly where you want it eventually, don't worry.

As for size, just think how much bigger my Velodyne 15" is! Can't remember the dimensions off the top of my head, but it weighs 83 lbs!

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