AllenLowe Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I just noticed that on Amazon and in the web site reviews of Rat Race Blues: The Musical Life of Gigi Gryce, there is a blurb from..... Bill Barton. I wrote an email to them suggesting they remove it, but so far, nothing. Can it be a different Bill Barton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Whatever else he was, Bill was a decent observer of the jazz scene. I see it is gone. I was curious to see what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Oh my ... forgot about BB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) from Amazon: "Has established a new standard against which all future jazz biographies must be judged." - Bill Barton, Signal To Noise; San Quentin Edited October 29, 2014 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm sorry to ask this - why should this have been removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasimado Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry to ask this - why should this have been removed? Good question - Allen? Q Edited October 29, 2014 by Quasimado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Rush through this discussion: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 he is currently serving 327 months in prison for not just child porn but for participating in a ring which coerced and manipulated children into participating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I wish I hadn't asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 it's funny, because Noel Cohen, to whom I emailed a warning about this (because I would want to know if one of my projects was endorsed publicly by someone of this nature) is now annoyed at me and thinks I am crazy to think they should be worried about this because it's not their fault if someone who liked the book did something like this. oh well, I tried..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I guess your thread title covered all eventualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Forgive me but I can't possibly see why this comment should be objected to or ended up being removed. Did the judge restrict his free speech rights? It's an Amazon review, fer cryin' out loud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 There are a lot of people whose products are sold on amazon who have been convicted of serious crimes including child sexual abuse. Hm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Dan - I am not saying "should or should not"; personally, if it were my product I would take the quote down. Not because he is not entitled to free speech; I just would not want the association. His particular crimes weren't like parking tickets or speeding violations or even manslaughter or 2nd degree murder; they were among the most vile that anyone can commit (as I said, it wasn't just a matter of looking at the stuff, which is bad enough, but of being involved in a ring which coerced children into participating). I can think of no greater crime, and I just would not want to be associated in any way with anyone who had committed it. but you are right, there is a freedom of choice here. They are entitled to keep the quote where it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Let's be honest, Allen. Of course you're saying Bill's comments should be removed from public view. By your own admission, you tried to convince Noel of this, and you were rebuked. You went ahead and contacted Amazon hoping that they would agree with your opinion, and you succeeded in getting it deleted. Undoubtedly, some people here will agree with your actions, and others will not. What I'm left wondering is why you felt the need to create a thread about this matter. In doing so, you have renewed the "association" between Bill and Organissimo, as well as yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The Barton quote is still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) sonny max - I never contact Amazon, only Noel Cohen. As I hope anyone would contact me in a similar situation. Nothing in the preceding indicates that anyone contacted a third party. And yes, I started a thread here; why does anyone start a thread? Because it is of interest. but if I get your point, there's no problem with the association between Barton and the book and/or it's none of my business anyway; so why do YOU have a problem in renewing the association between Barton and this forum? And if so why is it any of YOUR business whether or not I open up a thread? Because like a lot of people I have encountered on this forum, rather than deal with an actual question or issue you would rather question the motivations of the questioner. and to say "let's be honest" - as though I have not ALREADY been honest; as I said: "f it were my product I would take the quote down." The point that I am speaking to is personal judgment, not a need for legislative relief. is called an open discussion of issues that we, as human beings, grapple with. It's called a FORUM. Edited October 31, 2014 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Man Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 sonny max - I never contact Amazon, only Noel Cohen. As I hope anyone would contact me in a similar situation. Nothing in the preceding indicates that anyone contacted a third party. And yes, I started a thread here; why does anyone start a thread? Because it is of interest. but if I get your point, there's no problem with the association between Barton and the book and/or it's none of my business anyway; so why do YOU have a problem in renewing the association between Barton and this forum? And if so why is it any of YOUR business whether or not I open up a thread? Because like a lot of people I have encountered on this forum, rather than deal with an actual question or issue you would rather question the motivations of the questioner. and to say "let's be honest" - as though I have not ALREADY been honest; as I said: "f it were my product I would take the quote down." The point that I am speaking to is personal judgment, not a need for legislative relief. is called an open discussion of issues that we, as human beings, grapple with. It's called a FORUM. ...nice one, Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I just noticed that on Amazon and in the web site reviews of Rat Race Blues: The Musical Life of Gigi Gryce, there is a blurb from..... Bill Barton. I wrote an email to them suggesting they remove it, but so far, nothing. Can it be a different Bill Barton? By "them", you mean Cohen & Fitzgerald, not Amazon, correct? That's not made entirely clear, so some honest misunderstanding is not unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) sonny max - I never contact Amazon, only Noel Cohen. Really? Then why did you say: I just noticed that on Amazon and in the web site reviews of Rat Race Blues: The Musical Life of Gigi Gryce, there is a blurb from..... Bill Barton. I wrote an email to them suggesting they remove it, but so far, nothing. I wrongly assumed you were successful based on this: Whatever else he was, Bill was a decent observer of the jazz scene. I see it is gone. I was curious to see what he said. Personally, I'm glad the quote is still there. and to say "let's be honest" - as though I have not ALREADY been honest; I perceived you as being less-than-honest in your response to Dan that you were not saying Bill's comments "should or should not" removed. In my reading of your posts, You certainly were expressing the opinion that they should be deleted. And you are not wrong in believing that, because it is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I think I'm not alone in saying that it was good of you to contact Noal. Now, I realize that I might have misread your subsequent posts, for I assumed after being rebuked by Noal you went ahead and contacted Amazon and had the comments removed. If I am incorrect, I apologize. Lastly, of course you can begin any discussion you wish on the board. It's your right. However, I am still struck by the irony that starting this thread about not wanting to be associated with Bill enables anyone searching about Bill Barton to find this discussion and well...you. Edited October 31, 2014 by sonnymax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) I understand, sorry, the email I was referring to was one I sent to the writers of the book, not Amazon. I should have made that clearer. There is some ambiguity here; I don't believe there should be a law against posting his review, or that he or they should not be entitied to express a public opinion, but I do think it should not be there, as a matter of good judgement. If it were my project I would delete it post haste. look, I don't even agree with the Sex Offender lists, for complicated reasons that would be a whole other topic. and as I pointed out elsewhere, in my email to Noal I was polite and not self righteous, because I correctly assumed he was unaware of the situation. But his response surprised me. Edited November 1, 2014 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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