Mosaic plans Beehive box

[Brad]

I will, of course, buy this but I will wait until it actually comes out as I don't want to have to spend the money until it's ready to be shipped.

[ejp626]

I will, of course, buy this but I will wait until it actually comes out as I don't want to have to spend the money until it's ready to be shipped.

I'm pretty sure they don't charge your card until it is ready to ship, but you could call and ask.

[jazzbo]

Just got a shipping notice.

[ghost of miles]

Just got a shipping notice.

Excellent!  Scott told me last week that they might not be shipping for a couple more weeks, so this is great news.

[Aaron Cohen]

I'm eagerly awaiting my copy...You know I'm jumping when I hear the UPS truck coming down the street....

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I got my shipping notice too. I was figuring this must be shipping soon since I saw so many Bee Hive LPs in Stereo Jack's bins yesterday.

[sidewinder]

I got my shipping notice too. I was figuring this must be shipping soon since I saw so many Bee Hive LPs in Stereo Jack's bins yesterday.

He he !

[jazzbo]

Mine was received today, listening to disc 1 right now. Sounds as I would expect it to, knowing the lps and also Addey's mastering work. That is it sounds quite good!

 

Edited September 14, 2015 by jazzbo

[Aaron Cohen]

Great! I'm glad you enjoy the set. I'm assuming my copy will arrive any day now...

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I've been spinning this and I have to say, Addey did a fantastic job with the "bumblebee bass" on the stuff I've played so far. This is a phenomenal set. I can't wait to spin the rest of it.

My only complaint so far, and it's minor, is that the discs seem thinner than normal and that this is troublesome when trying to pry the second disc out of the 3 disc case. The hub for disc 2 really, and I mean REALLY grabs the CD. I watched in horror as this thin disc flexed like an LP record before the hub finally let go. Scary. I am going to swap all of the 3 disc cases for ones I have laying around that have normal hub for disc 2.

[street singer]

Mine was received today, listening to disc 1 right now. Sounds as I would expect it to, knowing the lps and also Addey's mastering work. That is it sounds quite good!

 

Addey has done such an amazing job with everything he's touched...that I've heard, at least. I was planning to pick this set up anyway, but knowing he did the mastering will make me get around to it that much quicker!

[rdgoodkind@yahoo.com]

I've been spinning this and I have to say, Addey did a fantastic job with the "bumblebee bass" on the stuff I've played so far. This is a phenomenal set. I can't wait to spin the rest of it.

My only complaint so far, and it's minor, is that the discs seem thinner than normal and that this is troublesome when trying to pry the second disc out of the 3 disc case. The hub for disc 2 really, and I mean REALLY grabs the CD. I watched in horror as this thin disc flexed like an LP record before the hub finally let go. Scary. I am going to swap all of the 3 disc cases for ones I have laying around that have normal hub for disc 2.

I had the exact same problem.  I was very nervous as I very slowly worked on removing disc 2 from the hub.

[Chuck Nessa]

Mosaic inner hubs have been a problem for a long time.  I think there was some discussion about this a couple years back.

[TedR]

It's the second disc of the 3 disc cases that are so difficult to get out without fear of cracking them (even with the "lift and twist"). In the Louis Armstrong All stars set I thought that I may never be able to play the middle discs because it took so long to detach them. I might choose 3 discs (with the interviews for example) that I may be less likely to listen to again and switch them to the middle hubs. Unfortunately I may not consider any more 9cd sets for this reason.

[mikeweil]

Maybe they had problems with discs sliding from the hubs during shipping. I'd rather break a dent or two to get them safely from the hub, or use some lubricant, than receive a damaged disc tossed around loosely in the case. I wouldn't call that a manufacturing flaw.

[David Ayers]

Haven't broken one yet, but the nerves jangle in those moments when you finally get round to the seventh disc of a set that by now is long OOP...

 

[ghost of miles]

The music in this set (of which I've heard little till now) is insanely good, not to mention the cast of musicians performing it.  On disc 4 right now with Dizzy Reece and Manhattan Project... more Albert Dailey (and more Dizzy Reece) is always a desirable thing in my jazz universe.

[ghost of miles]

Frank Wess on "You Don't Know What Love Is" from Roland Hanna's New York Jazz Quartet date...

[Chuck Nessa]

Frank Wess on "You Don't Know What Love Is" from Roland Hanna's New York Jazz Quartet date...

I was at that session.

[HutchFan]

Frank Wess on "You Don't Know What Love Is" from Roland Hanna's New York Jazz Quartet date...

I was at that session.

I'm jealous.

I never got the chance to hear Roland Hanna in person. He's one of my all-time favorite pianists.

[Larry Kart]

Interesting take on the Mosaic Beehive box from Ethan Iverson:

 

http://dothemath.typepad.com

 

As it happens, and going on memory, I share his reservations about all the Beehive dates Iverson has reservations about (that would be most of them), but the tone of his comments strikes me at times as off-puttingly snotty, and he displays significant gaps of knowledge/experience or just plain taste.

 

For instance: ‘[Von] Freeman’s ballad feature “I’m Glad There is You,” is intriguing, there’s definitely something personal and avant-garde about his tone and phrasing, but I’m still left with the impression that I never quite hear the best Von Freeman. Perhaps he needed to be experienced live.’ 

 

Ethan, do your homework. Yes, Von live was exceptional, but exceptional Freeman on disc is not hard to find. Or perhaps Iverson is one of those benighted souls who just doesn’t get Von. Hey, Ira Gitler always dismissed Von because he thought he was out of tune and didn't know it and/or care. (Von's intonation was as much or more a part of his style as Jackie McLean's was a part of his.]

 

'Eddie Bert sounds burly and vital. All I really knew about him previously was that he played with everybody's big band, so it's nice to learn something about what a good soloist he was.‘

 

Again, do your homework. Bert's recorded legacy as a sideman and a leader is extensive and makes it clear that not only was he a good soloist but also a highly individual one -- a more or less saxophone-like trombonist, like Earl Swope, Jimmy Knepper, and Willie Dennis. Bert preceded them, with Pres being the saxophonist in question, though Bert's initial inspiration was Trummy Young.

 

[Arnett] Cobb, Joe Newman and Al Grey all play really well [on Beehive’s Cobb album] despite the strangely unswinging drumming [of Panama Francis]. (Looking at his bio, I’m unsurprised to learn that Francis's work in rock seems more celebrated than his work in jazz.)’ 

 

Check out Francis on those revived Savoy Sultans albums; he swings like crazy.

 

‘The nice surprise is tenor saxophonist Sal Nistico, who leads his own date with Ronnie Mathews, Sam Jones, and Roy Haynes and all but takes over Curtis Fuller’s session with Walter Bishop, Sam Jones, and Freddie Waits. There were are lot of great white tenor players who showed serious homemade mastery of the idiom in the wake of Coltrane: A partial list would include Joe Farrell, Dave Liebman, Michael Brecker, Steve Grossman, Gregory Herbert, Bob Berg…it would be a valid educational project to listen and compare them all. (Actually I know there are those that spend their lives doing this already.)

 

‘At any rate I’d barely heard of Nistico, but he’s right in there…’

 

You’d barely heard of Nistico? And what’s with that “great white tenor players who showed serious homemade mastery of the idiom in the wake of Coltrane”? “[H]omemade”? As opposed to what? 

 

Also, the late Gregory Herbert was not a "white tenor player." He was African-American. Finally, though Nistico was certainly was aware of Coltrane -- how could he not be? -- his playing was not significantly “in the wake of Coltrane.”

Edited October 20, 2015 by Larry Kart

[Aaron Cohen]

Well, of course, I disagree with Ethan Iverson on a number of points, but he certainly was thorough in writing about and commenting on the set—there's no doubt he was listening closely. But along with his poor taste regarding Von Freeman, his comments on Junior Mance makes it seem like Ethan doesn't get the concept of blues. And, sure, Ricky Ford didn't have the history of Clifford Jordan, but was a first rate player on his date (the Ronnie Mathews record) and his own 1988 Muse album "Saxotic Stomp" (OK, the latter didn't have a great title, but still...). Anyway, Ford and Jordan didn't play on the same session. I also think it's stupid to indicate a musician's race unless that ethnicity has something directly to do with the music. Sal Nistico's did not. As far as my liners being "valuable" yet a "whitewash," well....I think y'all know how I feel about that.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Aaron Cohen
factual correction

[jlhoots]

Oy vey - I like BeeHive & I like Iverson.

Whatever shall I do???

I'll probably end up buying the box, but I'm happy to have Iverson's perspective.

Edited October 21, 2015 by jlhoots

[Steve Reynolds]

Not my cup of Java but I like to read Iverson despite his rampant ignorance usually of the avant-garde but his comments on the *great* Von Freeman take the whole bakery. 

"Perhaps he needed to be experienced live?!?!?"

you never bothered? Certainly you've traveled the world but you never bothered to see the great man live?!?!

I've got a few great recordings but even I, rare traveler that I am, but when I found myself in Chicago in the late 90's, I knew the two things I was doing after business hours were:

1) visit The Velvet Lounge and say hello to Fred Anderson

and

2) go see and hear Von Freeman from a few feet away. With a quartet with John Young on piano (at The Apartment Lounge, I think), Freeman took about a 15 minute solo on an opening mid-tempo piece that *still* might be the most memorable tenor saxophone solo I've ever heard

"Perhaps he needed to be experienced live?!?!"

amazing how some smart jazz musicians think they know about stuff they don't know about because they know so much about what they do know about.

And another thing / has Iverson ever heard Ricky Ford on any of the great Abdullah Ibrahim records?!?!

the famous Water from an Ancient Well for starters? 80's jazz starter class 101

 

Edited October 21, 2015 by Steve Reynolds

[JSngry]

Interesting take on the Mosaic Beehive box from Ethan Iverson:

 

http://dothemath.typepad.com

 

As it happens, and going on memory, I share his reservations about all the Beehive dates Iverson has reservations about (that would be most of them), but the tone of his comments strikes me at times as off-puttingly snotty, and he displays significant gaps of knowledge/experience or just plain taste.

 

For instance: ‘[Von] Freeman’s ballad feature “I’m Glad There is You,” is intriguing, there’s definitely something personal and avant-garde about his tone and phrasing, but I’m still left with the impression that I never quite hear the best Von Freeman. Perhaps he needed to be experienced live.’ 

 

Ethan, do your homework. Yes, Von live was exceptional, but exceptional Freeman on disc is not hard to find. Or perhaps Iverson is one of those benighted souls who just doesn’t get Von. Hey, Ira Gitler always dismissed Von because he thought he was out of tune and didn't know it and/or care. (Von's intonation was as much or more a part of his style as Jackie McLean's was a part of his.]

 

'Eddie Bert sounds burly and vital. All I really knew about him previously was that he played with everybody's big band, so it's nice to learn something about what a good soloist he was.‘

 

Again, do your homework. Bert's recorded legacy as a sideman and a leader is extensive and makes it clear that not only was he a good soloist but also a highly individual one -- a more or less saxophone-like trombonist, like Earl Swope, Jimmy Knepper, and Willie Dennis. Bert preceded them, with Pres being the saxophonist in question, though Bert's initial inspiration was Trummy Young.

 

[Arnett] Cobb, Joe Newman and Al Grey all play really well [on Beehive’s Cobb album] despite the strangely unswinging drumming [of Panama Francis]. (Looking at his bio, I’m unsurprised to learn that Francis's work in rock seems more celebrated than his work in jazz.)’ 

 

Check out Francis on those revived Savoy Sultans albums; he swings like crazy.

 

‘The nice surprise is tenor saxophonist Sal Nistico, who leads his own date with Ronnie Mathews, Sam Jones, and Roy Haynes and all but takes over Curtis Fuller’s session with Walter Bishop, Sam Jones, and Freddie Waits. There were are lot of great white tenor players who showed serious homemade mastery of the idiom in the wake of Coltrane: A partial list would include Joe Farrell, Dave Liebman, Michael Brecker, Steve Grossman, Gregory Herbert, Bob Berg…it would be a valid educational project to listen and compare them all. (Actually I know there are those that spend their lives doing this already.)

 

‘At any rate I’d barely heard of Nistico, but he’s right in there…’

 

You’d barely heard of Nistico? And what’s with that “great white tenor players who showed serious homemade mastery of the idiom in the wake of Coltrane”? “[H]omemade”? As opposed to what? 

 

Also, the late Gregory Herbert was not a "white tenor player." He was African-American. Finally, though Nistico was certainly was aware of Coltrane -- how could he not be? -- his playing was not significantly “in the wake of Coltrane.”

Also:

At a hotel bar I’d be delighted to hear this band live, but they are not really meant for prime time — until David “Fathead” Newman steps in. Here we go! There truly is an infinite amount of music to be gotten out of the blues. (Note to self: Listen to more Fathead Newman.)

Ya' think? Ya' think it'll do any good? Ok then, keep buying those records, blues comes from records, Fathead made lots of them, you should be ok with that!

And ok, I'll go there - what is this "not ready for prime time" bullshit. I mean, I'm not that much into Mance with that trio myself, but jesus christ, who the fuck is this "Ethan Iverson" to be talking about "prime time", like he could have hung with Jaws and Griff and all them back in THAT day, EVERY night, I swear to god, some motherfuckers show up at Pearl Harbor on December 8 and think that god's called them to be a captain..

Surely another take should have been possible? Perhaps Jordan is being a bit cruel here to his home team: “In New York, we play the hard forms right on the first take. Sorry, guys.”

 Seriously?

And talk about standing right dead on the corner of having your head up your ass AND not doing your homework:

The disappointment is a session of Dizzy Reece with some of my favorite musicians like Clifford Jordan, Albert Dailey and Roy Haynes. I’ve been hunting for this and I’m simply bereft now that I've finally tracked it down. Dailey sounds grumpy about his terribly out-of-tune piano. Art Davis does the most to ruin the session, constantly arguing with Haynes about where the beat is. (Haynes is right, Davis is wrong, although it doesn’t help that the drums sound like cardboard boxes.) Why have Ricky Ford blow when Clifford Jordan is right there? (That miscalculation is even worse thanks to Jordan seemingly being off-mic much of the time.) The leader is under-documented, trumpet specialists will need this no matter what, but I’m unconvinced that Reece’s "Woody Shaw meets Mingus" originals and complicated arrangements really work.  “Manhattan Walk” seems to take an eternity rather than eight minutes.

If I could go back in time and produce the date, I'd get a different bassist, fire Ford, adjust Jordan's mic, tune the piano, and hand out accurate lead sheets of familiar pieces. (Of course the band probably would have quit on me and left the studio, though....)

Where in god's (yours, mine, or anybody's) name is Rick Ford on that record? Never mind that it's a great record, Charles Davis, never mind doing the math, LEARN HOW TO FUCKING READ.

Apologies in advance for the profanities/et/blahblahblahblahblah but this is pretty much all bullshit, all of it, not just this review, just, the whole thing. It might have everything to do with jazz today, but it has absofuckinglutely nothing to do with jazz as I've known it.

Full speed ahead, Captain Clown.

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