Mosaic plans Beehive box

[erwbol]

 

[xybert]

In general i've found Iverson to be reasonably humble. That's been my impression anyway. 

 

Wow. I really need to get around to seeing this movie.

Everyone's a critic here to a certain extant. A lot of artists get shit on and i don't think that due diligence has always been done. Not that that excuses Iverson's errors in his article, obviously he's working at a higher amateur-professional level, but it's funny that people here are taking issue with his tone and attitude etc. 

 

[JSngry]

If he fixes the Charles Davis fuck up (pretty major, imo) and admits that his projection of skill-shaming onto Clifford Jordon is as deeply irresponsible and insulting as it is purely speculative, I'm more than happy to write the rest of it off as oh well, jazz didn't leave a will, this is what probate court looks like.

[Larry Kart]

In general i've found Iverson to be reasonably humble. That's been my impression anyway. 

 

Wow. I really need to get around to seeing this movie.

Everyone's a critic here to a certain extant. A lot of artists get shit on and i don't think that due diligence has always been done. Not that that excuses Iverson's errors in his article, obviously he's working at a higher amateur-professional level, but it's funny that people here are taking issue with his tone and attitude etc. 

 

Why is it "funny that people here are taking issue with his tone and attitude etc."? Jim and I and others have given plenty of examples of why we think he sounds quite snotty in his Beehive Mosaic piece. If you don't think he does, fine, but some of the stuff he thinks and/or pulls is just goofy IMO -- like that business about Clifford Jordan teaching his old Chicago colleagues how we do these things in NYC.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Larry Kart

[Larry Kart]

"Birdman" scene won't play for me, but I saw the movie and for the most part enjoyed the heck out of it. That scene, however, IIRC, seemed to me to be a relatively weak point. Leaving aside whether any critic would ever have such a conversation, especially with an actor-director whose work she was going to review (yes, I know there was an element of fantasy to the movie, but still...), what she dissed him for -- not being a real THEATER type but a one-time movie star who was trying to ride on the back of his celebrity status -- struck me as kind of out of left field. Newspaper people (and I was one) typically identify with newspaper people (especially themselves), not with any actual or imagined notion of howhe people in the medium they're covering feel or should feel about things.

[JSngry]

For EI the flip side of "We are not worthy!" seems to be a certain  third-hand NYC arrogance -- a la "You are not worthy! Only people who have been accepted by Tootie Heath and Billy Hart are."

And you know, that's ok for him handling himself in his own business, it works when and where it works, and part of growing up is to learn when and where it doesn't work, right? It's leverage.

But this appropriation thing is not ethical, it's just not ethical. Call me...whatever, but that's crossing the line. The history and personal character of Clifford Jordon is not his to use to create some weirdass projection about how they do it in New York. Clifford Jordan knew those people, they knew him, and not casually either, ok?? Understand that - not casually. So...line crossed. Write some fiction about it if you need to do that, just don't get all record reviewy insdierish with it.

And the Charles Davis thing...Charles Davis is by no means a "major jazz star" or anything, but that dude has paid more than a few dues and has been in some extremely interesting places while doing so, and oh by the way, has been a completely personal voice all the while. And he's still alive, last I heard anyway.

I like Ricky Ford pretty well, I think he grew into a pretty interesting and personal player, actually, but if you're gonna play the "the cats" game on one hand and then with the other game's hand not recognize that Charles Davis and Ricky Ford are not interchangeable, then sorry, your game has every right to be scrutinized, and somebody gonna bust one of those games, gaming commission, landlord, random act of shit, who knows, but humility lost is not a good thing to wait too long to find. How does that old German folk song go, you better check yourself before you wreck yourself, that's it, right?

Old and cranky here, guilty, but screw it, sometimes that's called for in spite of.

[Larry Kart]

I met Charles Davis socially in 2008 or '9 -- I was in Princeton, N.J. to spend some time with a woman whose first cousin is Davis' wife, and we went into NYC to have dinner with them and then go to Smalls to hear some music. A delightful evening; Davis was/is quite a guy and a trencherman in the top class, just destroyed a plate of paella with slow-motion relish. Fine player, too. Spending time with that woman didn't work out so well, but we both escaped relatively unmarked --at least I did.

[JSngry]

"trencherman", eh? Nice! (Note to self:Learn more new words.)

[Larry Kart]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trencher_(tableware)

[JSngry]

Trencherous!

A secondary use, generally archaic, is one who frequents another's table, in essence a pilferer of another's food.

[Larry Kart]

What struck me was not merely how much paella Davis put away but the measured, savoring things all the while way he did so. IIRC, he picked the restaurant, too, having turned thumbs down on several others as we walked through Greenwich Village. In fact, now that I think of it, in this respect he reminded me of Chicago tenorman Ari Brown, who was a member of the Mike Reed-led band that I accompanied on a European tour in 2008. Slow but steady, savoring as he went. Maybe it's a thing with guys who grew up on the South Side and went to DuSable High.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Larry Kart

[JSngry]

I've probably mentioned before having a late night bite with Lewis Hubert, the guy who came off the road as bari player with BB King and devoted his remaing life to learning jazz tenor, and marveling at how deliberately this guy prepared a "simple" cup of coffee...I think it's mostly about being aware of the pleasure of the moement, savoring it because you at some level feel neither its existence or its duration is to be taken for granted.

There's a grace in that, an appreciation for life beyond that of the preponderent grabandget. Grace as resistance and rebellion, love it.

 

[johnblitweiler]

Having lived for half a year (in 1964) halfway between Menomonie and Eau Claire, WI, I wonder/how EI got exposed to jazz in his youth.

[ejp626]

"Birdman" scene won't play for me, but I saw the movie and for the most part enjoyed the heck out of it. That scene, however, IIRC, seemed to me to be a relatively weak point. Leaving aside whether any critic would ever have such a conversation, especially with an actor-director whose work she was going to review (yes, I know there was an element of fantasy to the movie, but still...), what she dissed him for -- not being a real THEATER type but a one-time movie star who was trying to ride on the back of his celebrity status -- struck me as kind of out of left field. Newspaper people (and I was one) typically identify with newspaper people (especially themselves), not with any actual or imagined notion of howhe people in the medium they're covering feel or should feel about things.

She was definitely portrayed as a reviewer from an earlier generation, but I have no problem believing this happens now.  I read the theatre reviews in the Guardian frequently and there is no question that when it is a "big name" starring on a West End show, at least part of the review is about the star system in general and whether this star in particular transcends all the fuss to deliver a decent performance.   (In particular all the fuss around Benedict Cumberbatch as Hamlet, in what from several accounts seems to be a pretty poorly thought through production.  At one point the play actually opened with the To Be or Not to Be monologue.) Every so often there will be an article bemoaning the star system in general. 

You never really know what is going on with a critic and the bees in his or her bonnet.  I used to read Chris Jones, the Tribune critic regularly, (til his columns went behind a paywall) and if it was a Broadway transfer (or a play on the scale of a Broadway transfer), a chunk of his review always went to discussing if it was a union production or not.  Bottom line is that was not the most outlandish part of that film by any means...

As far as Beehive goes, I do expect to get the set relatively soon, though I am still working on clearing off some shelf space...

[JSngry]

Wow: http://www.dothemath.typepad.com/

I think Larry, Mark Stryker, and a few others here know him and have his ear at times, so...

Nothing personal, dude, any of it, just some basics. But thanks for noticing, and thanks for hearing.

[paul secor]

I do feel that there was a lot of nit picking in the responses to his review. After all, Larry did begin with: "As it happens, and going on memory, I share his reservations about all the Beehive dates Iverson has reservations about (that would be most of them"

Forest and the trees kind of thing to me. Some folks see the forest and others see the trees, but chopping down the forest to draw attention to a few trees makes no sense to me.

[Larry Kart]

No, I don't have his ear. We've exchanged e-mails from time to time over the years, some of them friendly, when I had information on a topic he was pursuing, but also on several occasions when I was pissed because I thought he'd done something fast and loose, callow, smug, and kind of self-serving, like the Beehive set review. OTOH, I have friends who have  had much more contact with EI than I have had who say that he's a great guy.

 

BTW, in the apology that Jim linked to, I still catch a whiff of schmutz, e.g. "In addition, if the cats at Organissimo are so appalled, I'm really whistling in the wind, as there can't be many people that care about these Bee Hive records who aren't at least lurking on Organissimo." If we "cats"  and those who are "lurking" about here are such a small, isolated crew, why did you take the trouble to write up and post your review in the first place? 

"Birdman" scene won't play for me, but I saw the movie and for the most part enjoyed the heck out of it. That scene, however, IIRC, seemed to me to be a relatively weak point. Leaving aside whether any critic would ever have such a conversation, especially with an actor-director whose work she was going to review (yes, I know there was an element of fantasy to the movie, but still...), what she dissed him for -- not being a real THEATER type but a one-time movie star who was trying to ride on the back of his celebrity status -- struck me as kind of out of left field. Newspaper people (and I was one) typically identify with newspaper people (especially themselves), not with any actual or imagined notion of howhe people in the medium they're covering feel or should feel about things.

She was definitely portrayed as a reviewer from an earlier generation, but I have no problem believing this happens now.  I read the theatre reviews in the Guardian frequently and there is no question that when it is a "big name" starring on a West End show, at least part of the review is about the star system in general and whether this star in particular transcends all the fuss to deliver a decent performance.   (In particular all the fuss around Benedict Cumberbatch as Hamlet, in what from several accounts seems to be a pretty poorly thought through production.  At one point the play actually opened with the To Be or Not to Be monologue.) Every so often there will be an article bemoaning the star system in general. 

You never really know what is going on with a critic and the bees in his or her bonnet.  I used to read Chris Jones, the Tribune critic regularly, (til his columns went behind a paywall) and if it was a Broadway transfer (or a play on the scale of a Broadway transfer), a chunk of his review always went to discussing if it was a union production or not.  Bottom line is that was not the most outlandish part of that film by any means...

As far as Beehive goes, I do expect to get the set relatively soon, though I am still working on clearing off some shelf space...

On second thought, you're right about that scene lining up fairly well with reality. Maybe I just didn't like the relative bluntness with which it was written and played.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Larry Kart

[paul secor]

When Iverson writes, "In addition, if the cats at Organissimo are so appalled, I'm really whistling in the wind, as there can't be many people that care about these Bee Hive records who aren't at least lurking on Organissimo", I think that's just reality, Larry.

 

[JSngry]

Yeah, well, yeah.

But. learn more (a lot more) about Charles Davis (and for bonus points, Eddie Bert), consider more deeply the dynamic of friends making records together, don't do the December 8th thing, and let's all get on with things.

Probate court still in session, probably indefinitely.

[jlhoots]

And the beat goes on & on & on.

[JSngry]

La-di-da-di-dee, la-di-da-di-dah.

[jlhoots]

doot - da - doot - da - doot

[JSngry]

No idea what that one means?

[mjzee]

I've been spinning this and I have to say, Addey did a fantastic job with the "bumblebee bass" on the stuff I've played so far. This is a phenomenal set. I can't wait to spin the rest of it.

My only complaint so far, and it's minor, is that the discs seem thinner than normal and that this is troublesome when trying to pry the second disc out of the 3 disc case. The hub for disc 2 really, and I mean REALLY grabs the CD. I watched in horror as this thin disc flexed like an LP record before the hub finally let go. Scary. I am going to swap all of the 3 disc cases for ones I have laying around that have normal hub for disc 2.

I had the exact same problem.  I was very nervous as I very slowly worked on removing disc 2 from the hub.

I found a solution that kinda works, at least for me.  Disc 2 is held in by 4 spokes.  I gently pushed in 2 of them, so now the disc is being held in place by only 2 spokes, which makes it far easier to remove.  The spokes haven't yet broken off.

[king ubu]

doot - da - doot - da - doot

No idea what that one means?

five spokes, three of which are too long