Tom 1960 Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) I recently was reading the Chet Baker bio "Deep In A Dream" and encountered some negative commentary here on the forum concerning the book. The main criticism was that the author focused a lot on Chet's drug issues and not much else. A good friend of mine pretty much said the same. I'll probably finish reading the book since I'm more than halfway through. But I can see what folks are saying. I was curious since I hardly would describe myself as any sort of expert. But would be in your minds other books I should steer clear of so I don't make the same mistake in the future. Also, why I'm at it, What would be a better alternative to the above Chet Baker bio? Thanks. Edited February 15, 2015 by Tom 1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 I felt so demeaned after reading the first two James Lincoln Collier books I stopped looking at anything with his name on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Also, why I'm at it, What would be a better alternative to the above Chet Baker bio? Thanks. Tom, I read the Jeroen De Valk book Chet Baker: His Life and Music way back when. I liked it well enough to recommend to you, but there might be another selection that people here prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 My problem with "Deep in a Dream" was that author James Gavin was not a jazz person, and at times it showed (for example, IIRC, in a passage about Dick Twardzik he refers to Serge Chaloff and the young Twardzik -- not that there ever was an old Twardzik -- as roughly equivalent figures on the Boston scene, when Chaloff, when he returned to Boston, was a poll-winning veteran, while Twardzik, talented though he was, was just getting started). Further, again IIRC, Gavin pretty much promulgates the idea that Baker was murdered, when De Valk's book conclusively shows that Baker fell out of that window on his own hook. Also, when the subject of the the film "Let's Get Lost" comes up, the book turns into a weird sniping job on filmmaker/photographer Bruce Weber, this it seems on a gay-politics basis. Many of Weber's photos -- all those golden retrievers and naked young men jumping into and romping about in swimming pools -- are commonly felt to have a homoerotic theme, but Weber denies this and also denies that he himself is gay. Gavin, who is gay I believe, seems mortally pissed off by this; and I suppose he's entitled. But eventually I got the feeling that Gavin would have preferred to be writing a tell-all bio of Bruce Weber if there had been a market for such a book. I wished that De Valk's book had been longer, but it was sound on the facts and acute and detailed about the music -- in particular, he was quite clear that many of Baker's latter-day recordings were among his best work. Perhaps DeValk has or will come up with an expanded edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Anything with Terry Teachout's name on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) I felt so demeaned after reading the first two James Lincoln Collier books I stopped looking at anything with his name on it. His Ellington book was garbage. I would never read anything by him after making that mistake. I threw the book in the trash after I was finished. Edited February 16, 2015 by kh1958 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Anything with Terry Teachout's name on it +1 on that. Years ago, I bought Geoff Dyer's But Beautiful on the basis of some good reviews, and couldn't stand it (didn't even finish it, which is unusual for me). Dyer's recent piece on Coltrane reinforced my opinion that he's an author to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I didn't like But Beautiful either but many people I know do. I thought Terry Teachout's book on Pops was ok but his Ellington book is shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I didn't like But Beautiful either but many people I know do. I thought Terry Teachout's book on Pops was ok but his Ellington book is shit. My opinions also. Ditto The Geoff Dyer book and Collier. The Grant Green Book written by his "Daughter in Law" is a stinker too. I rather liked "Deep in a Dream", but I understand Larry's criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmce Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I felt so demeaned after reading the first two James Lincoln Collier books I stopped looking at anything with his name on it. But oh god do read Dan Morgenstern on Collier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Mr. Crouch, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Leslie Gourse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I thought Terry Teachout's book on Pops was ok but his Ellington book is shit. Yes, it is amazing how much better the Armstrong book is than the Ellington. Hard to believe that the same person wrote both of them. Leslie Gourse Yes, that name on a book is a clear warning not to waste your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) almost anything by a University Press, it seems, is to be avoided - unless it's by: Lewis Porter, John Szwed, Larry Gushee, or Larry Kart. the amount of crap coming out of Universities these days on all aspects of American music - country music, blues, hillbilly, jazz, rock - Is shocking - even books with reasonable premises, which usually turn out to be journal articles blown up into books. Most of it is a rehashing of the obvious or a re-statement of the same thing, and I am not exaggerating. Also, Yuval Taylor is a complete hack and knows nothing but does not realize he knows nothing (Chicago Press, or something like that); Berton Peretti just cuts and pastes from everyone else; oi, I know I sound harsh and negative, but this stuff is getting to me a bit (and it's not just confined to U Presses, but they are the worst) because I am always looking for something good to read, some new insights. by the way, a writer to be read is Greg Tate. Full of insight, agree with him or not. Edited February 16, 2015 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I had recently contemplated starting a thread on must read jazz books after a search didn't show up anything, but this thread might prove equally useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I beg to disagree (at least somewhat) about the "University" publishing angle. I am not going to toot the horn of the individual books (this thread is about the opposite of that, after all) but I do have quite a few books by the University of Illinois Press and the University of Texas Press publishers which I find quite well to very well done (in some cases even teh definite word on the subject IMHO). Though I must admit there are one or two from the University of Chicago Press that I am a bit ambivalent about (though I would not say they are to be avoided). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 John Gennari's "Blowin' Hot and Cool: Jazz and Its Critics" (U. of Chicago Press) is not without value, but when reading it one needs to have a fair amount of independent knowledge and a box of anti-bias pills close to hand. For example, Genarri's snotty, prosecuting-attorney characterization of the background of Martin Williams borders on the outrageous, and he also gets very fast and loose with the background of Dan Morgenstern. Gennari even makes me feel a bit sympathetic toward Leonard Feather! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 A Power Stronger than Itself was published by the U. of Chicago Press. I've read it, learned from it, and have kept my copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Ok, since we're at it about "Chicago": The book I was primarily thinking of is "Come In and Hear The Truth - Jazz and Race on 52nd Street" by Patrick Burke. Not bad per se, but it took me a long time to gather enough stamina to plow ahead past the 30 or so first pages. It got more acceptable as I read on but yet: This writing style often is fairly dry and lecturingly IMO for that subject, the musical and musico-historical facts are told in a way that makes the jazz listener/fan say "stating the obvious and just scratchign the surface", the facts often are presented in a way that I feel relies a bit too much on secondary instead of on primary (contemporary) sources (though the sources cited show that enough primary sources were used indeed - or is it just a case of scholars citing each other liberally in an "Il scratch your back if you scratch mine" attitude? ), and above all, something that bugs me about quite a few books that approach this subject of music and society where the author obviously has an "agenda" of his own: Somehow a lot of the findings are highlighted such that the "finding" is presented first and the evidence to support this "finding" comes afterweard and appears to have been arranged until it corroborates the findings by all means instead of developing the history in detail first and then showing the conclusions that can be drawn from the historical facts - which (to me anyway) comes across as a bit a case of '"making the history fit the lessons I want to learn from that history". Not that this must have been intentional or that facts are skewed badly but this writing style makes for somewhat awkward reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 many of the books I see from U presses have some value - but they are really journal articles blown up to the point of un-readabilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Grange Rutan's Death of a Bebop Wife was in many ways a frustrating read, as I'd expected a properly conceived biography of Al Haig. It is, in fact, several hundred pages of undigested verbatim reminiscences and published comments on Haig arranged in scores of separate sections. Rutan, a former Haig wife, spent years assembling this data, but in my view never manged to make a book of it. That said, I was interested enough in Haig to plough through all of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 1960 Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 My problem with "Deep in a Dream" was that author James Gavin was not a jazz person, and at times it showed I guess that explains why I was in strong disagreement with his assessment concerning "Chet Baker In New York". He pretty much described it as a weak effort. Really??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utevsky Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I had recently contemplated starting a thread on must read jazz books after a search didn't show up anything, but this thread might prove equally useful. This one here is interesting, but personally, I'd rather read about the good books. I could always use some guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I had recently contemplated starting a thread on must read jazz books after a search didn't show up anything, but this thread might prove equally useful. This one here is interesting, but personally, I'd rather read about the good books. I could always use some guidance. Why not both together? Though, of course, opinions do differ, and some may definitely appreciate a book that is blasted by others. There are moments when I almost feel like "likes" and "dislikes" ought to be classified by assessments by mere readers/music listeners/fans/colectors on the one hand and by "scribes" on the other. Their approaches sometimes differ widely and this sometimes also has an impact on what one expects from how a given subject is treated. Not a matter of which one of those divergent approaches is universally better or more suitable, just different angles, I guess ... BTW, I distinctly sem to remember there is at least one lengthy thread about recomended jazz books around here. Not sure how long it has been dormant, though ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I had recently contemplated starting a thread on must read jazz books after a search didn't show up anything, but this thread might prove equally useful. This one here is interesting, but personally, I'd rather read about the good books. I could always use some guidance. Why not both together? Though, of course, opinions do differ, and some may definitely appreciate a book that is blasted by others. There are moments when I almost feel like "likes" and "dislikes" ought to be classified by assessments by mere readers/music listeners/fans/colectors on the one hand and by "scribes" on the other. Their approaches sometimes differ widely and this sometimes also has an impact on what one expects from how a given subject is treated. Not a matter of which one of those divergent approaches is universally better or more suitable, just different angles, I guess ... BTW, I distinctly sem to remember there is at least one lengthy thread about recomended jazz books around here. Not sure how long it has been dormant, though ... I tried to look for such threads with a Google search (site:organissimo.org/forum ... ) and nothing turned up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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