Larry Kart Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 Having recently acquired two new (to me) recordings of "La Mer" -- Boulez (Cleveland, DGG) and Ormandy (Philadelphia, Sony), I've discovered to my amazement that I have ten others: Bernstein (NYP, Sony), Boulez (Philharmonia, Sony), Bour (SWF, Astree), Tilson-Thomas (Philharmonia, Sony), Silvestri (PCO, Disky), Haitink (Concertgebouw, Phillips), Inghelbrecht (Orchestre National, Naive), Giulini, Los Angeles, DGG), Desormiere (Czech Phil, Supraphon), and Maazel (Vienna Phil. RCA). Trying to sort through all these (I've also heard but don't own Reiner, Cantelli, and Toscanini) and concentrating on on the first movement, I've reached some temporary conclusions thst were both expected (Inghelbrecht is terrific, elemental) and unanticipated, as least by me (e.g. Bernstein is very good -- highly characterized at times, as one might expect, but his bright ideas are almost all illuminating; Ormandy also is quite good, not at all stodgy and over-rich; the DGG Boulez is constipated almost beyond belief). Ruled out at this point, in addition to DGG Boulez, are Giulini (half asleep), Tilson-Thomas (nothing awful, nothing special), and Silvestri (very turgid sound). Haitink I can't make up my mind about -- at times I hear a remarkable rhythmic fluidity, at other times a lack of color. Maazel gets some remarkable moment-to-moment playing from the VPO, but their sound is not right for Debussy, and Maazel's interpretation is very in your face. The fabled Boulez New Philharmonia doesn't seem that magical or revelatory this time. Bour is awfully swift and rather dour (no rhyme intended). Desormiere I haven't returned to yet, but Sviatoslav Richter once said that it was the best recording of any work he'd ever heard. At least one textual or conductorial emphasis question -- when, after a longish pause, the great sweeping massed cello passage arrives in movement one (at about the 5:20 mark on most recordings), Bernstein backs up the figure with a striking kettle drum rumble, a carry over from the bold [at least in Bernstein's recording] kettle drum rumbles that accompany the immediately preceding orchestral crescendos. Haven't gone back to every "La Mer" I have to be sure, but the only other recordingof the ones I've checked so far where one can hear any drum rumbles behind the cellos (and I mean any) is Haitink's, and his kettle drum or drums is/are a fair bit more discreet that Lennie's (which are probably spotlighted by the engineer -- there seems to be a good deal of spotlighting on his recording in general, although for sound musical reasons IMO). But is there, I wonder, a textual issue here? Two versions of the score, one with that drum rumble behind the cellos, the other without? If so, all I can say is that the drum rumble behind the cellos sounds great to me. P.S. What a piece of music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 La Mer is an absolute favorite of mine. My Dad had it on LP - forget which version - and as a teenager it was the first classical LP I bought. Being into jazz, the impressionists were the perfect gateway into classical. I have several recordings, most on LP, a few on CD. Most of the latter are at work right now so I can't compare. I did quickly listen to Ormandy, and that passage comes in significantly earlier than 5:20. I do hear the pizzicato bass hit after that cello passage starts, but it is hard to tell what the tympani is doing, if anything, with those low basses. i have not looked at the score. If the tympani is playing quietly, perhaps it is just an issue of miking and balance in different recordings. Incidentally, that cello passage, with the open harmonies, is for me one of the test passages when comparing different performances. I have heard several recordings with somewhat ragged playing during that passage, along with some tuning/pitch issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 La Mer is an absolute favorite of mine. My Dad had it on LP - forget which version - and as a teenager it was the first classical LP I bought. Being into jazz, the impressionists were the perfect gateway into classical. I have several recordings, most on LP, a few on CD. Most of the latter are at work right now so I can't compare. I did quickly listen to Ormandy, and that passage comes in significantly earlier than 5:20. I do hear the pizzicato bass hit after that cello passage starts, but it is hard to tell what the tympani is doing, if anything, with those low basses. i have not looked at the score. If the tympani is playing quietly, perhaps it is just an issue of miking and balance in different recordings. Incidentally, that cello passage, with the open harmonies, is for me one of the test passages when comparing different performances. I have heard several recordings with somewhat ragged playing during that passage, along with some tuning/pitch issues. Here's the Bernstein. The passage I'm thinking of is at about 5:02: Here's Haitink; it's about at 4:27: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Here's Boulez Philharmonia; it's at about 4:46, and there's almost nothing but the cellos: Inghelbrecht, about 4:50; the drums are there! And what a performance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 This thread has grabbed my interest. When I return home from vacation I will folllow up with listening to La Mer. Not sure what version I have, if any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) Wonderful piece of music. Along with Delius and Sibelius, created an image of what I wanted 'classical' music to sound like - liquid, ever moving and with ideas rarely returning without being transformed in some substantial way. I started with a 60s Karajan version (did 3 years for that) but happily settled on a Haitink 80s version. This is interesting if not vital: As well as her own piece, Sally Beamish arranges La Mer for piano trio. When you're listening, always remember that this was what Debussy had in mind as he completed it in the Grand Hotel in Eastbourne: I can recommend the doughnuts in the cafe 50 yards to the left. Edited May 27, 2015 by A Lark Ascending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) An excellent reading of "La Mer" can be found (nowadays) on the Supraphon 3CD set "Jean Fournet in Prague" - recorded in the mid sixties with the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra PS the set comes recommended overall, as it features inter alias equally impressive performances of "Iberia", "Rondes de printemps", "Nocturnes for Orchestra" and more from Franck and de Falla .... Edited May 27, 2015 by soulpope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 When you're listening, always remember that this was what Debussy had in mind as he completed it in the Grand Hotel in Eastbourne: Lobster faced ice cream eaters in deck chairs with hankies on heads and wives called Petunia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Here's Boulez Philharmonia; it's at about 4:46, and there's almost nothing but the cellos: Inghelbrecht, about 4:50; the drums are there! And what a performance! Yes, that is the passage I am discussing. I think it comes down to performance, dynamics, and miking. The balance on the Inghelbrecht is close to what I hear on the Ormandy. Inghelbrecht takes that part pretty fast, in comparison to other versions I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 As an aside, this was one of the pieces Muti and the CSO performed during my visit to Carnegie Hall earlier this year, sandwiched between Mendelssohn's Calm Sea and Prosperous Voyage overture and Scriabin's Third Symphony (the highlight of the evening, for me). I recall the entire concert as being excellent. Here's a link to a recording of the concert. It begins with the Mendelssohn -- not a long piece -- before La Mer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) No mention of Munch Monteux or Martinon? Edited May 27, 2015 by Chuck Nessa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Lobster faced ice cream eaters in deck chairs with hankies on heads and wives called Petunia? The blimp, Frank, the blimp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes, Martinon is great, and a box with all of his Debussy and Ravel recordings was reissued at very low prices. Besides him I strongly recommend this orchestra which I had the pleasure to hear perform last year: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Fritz Reiner does the second tympani hit. Paul Paray only does the first one, unless the second was so quiet it is buried. For whatever that is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Toscanini (1942 or 1953) does not do the second tympani hit. Munch 1956 does do it, but in the background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) Lobster faced ice cream eaters in deck chairs with hankies on heads and wives called Petunia? The blimp, Frank, the blimp! Edited May 28, 2015 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Debussy revised La Mer in 1909, and apparently the revisions are subtle. (Trying to find more detail.) So this may provide a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 About Munch, Monteux, and Martinon, I'm in the market. Sadly, my Desormiere LP is in unplayable shape, but it was a Parliament pressing to begin with, so what do you expect? Hey -- I see it's available on a two-CD set (with other vintage Debussy recordings) on Amazon for a mere $120. Teasing the Korean -- I'm eager to hear what you're able to find out. I may have some sources too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alankin Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 http://www.amazon.com/Debussy-Ravel-Orchestral-Works-Claude/dp/B008DK3Q96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Teasing the Korean -- I'm eager to hear what you're able to find out. I may have some sources too. A good friend of mine is a music librarian. She indicates that the main revisions were subtle, and mainly concerned a brass fanfare someplace. But, that percussion change could have occurred also, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 About Munch, Monteux, and Martinon, I'm in the market. Sadly, my Desormiere LP is in unplayable shape, but it was a Parliament pressing to begin with, so what do you expect? Hey -- I see it's available on a two-CD set (with other vintage Debussy recordings) on Amazon for a mere $120. Teasing the Korean -- I'm eager to hear what you're able to find out. I may have some sources too. The Munch is included in the first Living Stereo box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 http://www.amazon.com/Debussy-Ravel-Orchestral-Works-Claude/dp/B008DK3Q96 Great set. I love Debussy. Such wonderful music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 'Beginning with La mer, Debussy created a new formal concept which one could call open form, which would find its fullest expression in Jeux and the last works: a developmental process in which the very notions of exposition and development coexist in an uninterrupted burst, which allows a work to be self-propelled, so to speak, without relying on any pre-established model. 'Such a conception of a work of art obviously strikes at the decayed state of traditional analysis. Indeed in La mer, musical technique is reinvented, not in the details of the language, but in the very concept of musical organization, and sonorous becoming… In it, music becomes a mysterious world which, to the extent that it evolves, it contrives in itself and destroys itself.' — Jean Barraque Hey -- I knew there was a reason I like La mer so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 About Munch, Monteux, and Martinon, I'm in the market. Sadly, my Desormiere LP is in unplayable shape, but it was a Parliament pressing to begin with, so what do you expect? Hey -- I see it's available on a two-CD set (with other vintage Debussy recordings) on Amazon for a mere $120. Teasing the Korean -- I'm eager to hear what you're able to find out. I may have some sources too. The Munch is included in the first Living Stereo box. Easier to get here: http://www.amazon.com/Debussy-Mer-Images-Nocturnes-C/dp/B0001TSWLO/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1432854497&sr=1-3&keywords=munch+debussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Easier to get here: http://www.amazon.com/Debussy-Mer-Images-Nocturnes-C/dp/B0001TSWLO/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1432854497&sr=1-3&keywords=munch+debussy That's the one I just ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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