clifford_thornton Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 "I Got it Bad" is certainly weird - yeah, Shepp could've laid out some - but I have no problem with it in the context of the LP, which should be taken as a whole. Shepp didn't seem to be thinking in singles, after all, and there certainly is a shambolic theatricality to its arrangement. Messy doesn't mean something isn't good. Hadn't listened to "Theme for Ernie" in a while. Such a fantastic piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I like that track too. A little musical friction never hurt anybody. And Shepp plays great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Could have come off any number of post- Sidewinder Blue Note albums back in the day. But I have no problem with what Shepp is doing. Edited June 4, 2015 by Leeway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 If you're talking about "Abstract", I don't think so. That pocket's a lot closer to "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag" than it is to "Sidewinder". And Blue Note hardly did not use electric bass during that time, and no matter what the bass, they never mixed that upfront in the mix. That's a whole closer to an R&B bass mix than any jazz one (except some jazz 45s I have, but that's talking 45s, and that's talking jukebox mix, and that's a whole 'nother world). Interesting rhythm section on that cut as well - Dave Burrell on organ, Wally Richardson on guitar, Bob Bushnell on bass, and Bernard Purdie on drums. Burrell might seem an odd duck in there, but the other three, yeah, they knew what the object of the game was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) If you're talking about "Abstract", I don't think so. That pocket's a lot closer to "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag" than it is to "Sidewinder". And Blue Note hardly did not use electric bass during that time, and no matter what the bass, they never mixed that upfront in the mix. That's a whole closer to an R&B bass mix than any jazz one (except some jazz 45s I have, but that's talking 45s, and that's talking jukebox mix, and that's a whole 'nother world). Interesting rhythm section on that cut as well - Dave Burrell on organ, Wally Richardson on guitar, Bob Bushnell on bass, and Bernard Purdie on drums. Burrell might seem an odd duck in there, but the other three, yeah, they knew what the object of the game was. but it could have been recorded and mixed with more skill (maybe finesse is a better word) to make it absolutely kill. Edited June 4, 2015 by Chuck Nessa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yes it could have been (and thank you for implicitly getting the point of it in the first place. I know you've heard some jukeboxes,) Hell, let's finish the job and put the opening cut up here, then we'll have the whole album. and don't nobody say it sounds like the them to "Good Times", because that's reverse chronology. This one could have been recorded and mixed with more finesse as well, but still, and I speak from experience, when you but this record on the turntable and it opens with this...the point gets made about what THIS is gonna be about all the way through. Smiling Archie Shepp dressed in black, framed in black, surround(sound)ed by Black...who give a damn for losers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 If you're talking about "Abstract", I don't think so. That pocket's a lot closer to "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag" than it is to "Sidewinder". And Blue Note hardly did not use electric bass during that time, and no matter what the bass, they never mixed that upfront in the mix. That's a whole closer to an R&B bass mix than any jazz one (except some jazz 45s I have, but that's talking 45s, and that's talking jukebox mix, and that's a whole 'nother world). Interesting rhythm section on that cut as well - Dave Burrell on organ, Wally Richardson on guitar, Bob Bushnell on bass, and Bernard Purdie on drums. Burrell might seem an odd duck in there, but the other three, yeah, they knew what the object of the game was. Yeah, I am talking about Abstract. Sounds like a boogaloo to me, adjusted maybe for time and place, but not out of the BN idiom. BTW, has anyone deconstructed the title of the album, "For Losers." and who is the object and subject, and indirect object of same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Everybody loves a winner Even when he's thinner Goin' down like a clown Who gives a damn for losers? Everybody loves a winner Even when he's thinner Goin' down like a clown Who gives a damn for losers? When lipstick's ten cents a tube That's progress, man in motion Got my man's sweet lotion For my sunburned soul Blacker than brown, browner than beige And you can take that any way you like Just don't call me an all day sucker Mother's Day is over for losers. For losers. For Losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I don't know whether I'd want to hear it with some new mix - maybe - but I'll just keep reiterating that this is an excellent, excellent album. Shepp's stab at populism was still pretty damn creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I've come to understand it as a Ghetto Max Roach album, and I say that with full love for Max, Shepp, and to the extent I know it, the ghetto((s), hello the ghettos of unshaven drunken and beaten country people in rent(semi)houses way off the road on somebody else's land, you're there too, if not on this record, don't sweat it, you have your records too)), faults and uglinesses of beauties inseparable from that beauty. Ugly Beauty, Oliver Nelson was a Winner, Cal Massey was a Loser, Abbey Lincoln was a Winner, Chinalin Sharp was a Loser. Members Don't Get Weary, the Race will be won, but for others, that's not a Starter's pistol, and really - who gives a damn For Losers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted May 7, 2018 Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 On 5/31/2015 at 3:42 PM, mjzee said: Does anyone have a photo of Shepp smiling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gheorghe Posted May 7, 2018 Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 On 31.05.2015 at 10:42 PM, mjzee said: Does anyone have a photo of Shepp smiling? When I got into Archie Shepp the first time, I also would have asked that question. Saw him life on several occasions, the first time in 1979 with a fantastic quartet with the dream team of Siegfried Kessler (p), Bob Cunningham (b) and Clifford Jarvis (dr) and there was no smile, but who cares, the music was one of the greatest experiences in my live. Later with Ken Werner, Santi Debriano and John Betsch, no smiling, and much later together with my wife with another trio, I don´t remember the personnel.......standing ovations, and my wife who never had heard about him before said: Look, he has that beautiful warm smile, such a symphatic person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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