Hardbopjazz

The Holy Grail of Jazz

46 posts in this topic

Regarding the Trane/Wes audience tape, a subject that's surfaced a couple of times here & on the old BNBB, Lewis Porter does refer to such a tape in the performance bibliography of his Coltrane bio.

I (still) wonder if he (or anyone) has actually heard it. Did he mention it at all in the text of his book?

No, I don't believe he did. I'll try to send an e-mail to David Tegnell, a Coltrane scholar who's on the Coltrane list; he may have some info about it.

Somebody on the BNBB said a collector had offered a copy of the tape (it's about 45 minutes, supposedly) to him for $2500. He declined.

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Somebody on the BNBB said a collector had offered a copy of the tape (it's about 45 minutes, supposedly) to him for $2500. He declined.

Edited by Hardbopjazz

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How about Wes with the Modern Jazz Quartet? Wes did play with them and was offered to come join the band full time. He turned it down because he didn't want to away from his wife and kids for too long.

Was this ever recorded?

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I have never understood the attraction of the Wes/Trane pairing at this time. It does not sound like a special combination to me.

And I've always read that it was nothing special--and that Wes himself felt he didn't really "get" what Trane was into. Still, one wonders.

I'd love to hear what Hendrix & Sam Rivers were up to up in Woodstock.

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I'd be curious to hear that one "Miles with the Gil Evans Orchestra" live date from 1968. (No tapes are known to exist.)

Are there any other 'lost' legendary "Miles" things that people know of???

Maybe Miles with the usual quintet plus Joe Henderson, in late 1967?? (Again, no tapes are known to exist.)

I have read that there are tapes floating around of one or maybe two gigs with Wayne, Herbie, Ron, and Tony -- but without Miles. Don't know if they were gigs that Miles was supposed to play at, or if the band just played a couple nights, here and there, without him.

Also, of course I'd love to hear any live Andrew Hill dates from, say, 1963-1969. Did Hill even gig much back then?? Did he ever have any "working" bands???

Edited by Rooster_Ties

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Miles and Hendrix?

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Also, of course I'd love to hear any live Andrew Hill dates from, say, 1963-1969. Did Hill even gig much back then?? Did he ever have any "working" bands???

Andrew Hill appeared with Roland Kirk at the 1962 Newport Jazz Festival. There is some footage of Kirk's appearance in the god-awful DVD of the festival where Hill is filmed back to camera and is almost unrecognizable. Images and sound on this DVD are just awful.

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I believe Hendrix had sessions scheduled with both Gil Evans and Miles (separately) for the week after he died!

"Falling Water" on the Miles & Gil box should probably give at least some idea of what that live '68 gig sounded like.

I read somewhere (liner notes, I can't remember where) that Herbie brought a quartet to the Left Bank in Baltimore in '64 or '65 with Ron, Tony and Sam Rivers. I hope that one surfaces.

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I've not heard the Trane/Wes thing, but I seem to remember somebody posting here (or somewhere) that they had, and that the sound quality was extremely poor, but that the holder of the tape still wanted an exhorbitant fee to let it out.

Maybe there is some truth to this. I sent this person an email mail.

I came across this.

Edited by Hardbopjazz

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One I'd love to hear is the lost Blue Note sesion of John Collins with Milt Hinton and Kenny Clarke.

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One I'd love to hear is the lost Blue Note sesion of John Collins with Milt Hinton and Kenny Clarke.

Me too.

I'll never forget the night in 1980 or '81 when Collins dropped into the Enterprise Lounge to listen to Von Freeman. He sat at our table. Very nice man. Nils Winther (SteepleChase) was with us and was in awe.

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Funny thing about bulletin boards. Calling up a thread, assuming at first blush it's a newie - only to find one recalls reading it a few years previously.

FWIW, when talking of the holy grail of jazz, talk of anyone 'cept Bolden is - to me- just silly. And that's not a judgment on my part of the merit of the many artists mentioned on this thread, nor my interest in hearing any of the suggestions. Fact is, all those cats we have heard one way or another.

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I agree. It's Buddy Bolden or bust.

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It's a train wreck.

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FWIW, when talking of the holy grail of jazz, talk of anyone 'cept Bolden is - to me- just silly. And that's not a judgment on my part of the merit of the many artists mentioned on this thread, nor my interest in hearing any of the suggestions. Fact is, all those cats we have heard one way or another.

Think of how many Monk, Coltrane, Diz, and Bird records we've all heard. Still, those Town Hall and Carnegie Hall records were spectacular, and still quite revelatory.

Would love to hear Trane and Wes, but I seriously doubt it exists.

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I dunno - I just listened to Connie Boswell with the Original Memphis 5. Seemed like THE SOURCE to me -

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FWIW, when talking of the holy grail of jazz, talk of anyone 'cept Bolden is - to me- just silly. And that's not a judgment on my part of the merit of the many artists mentioned on this thread, nor my interest in hearing any of the suggestions. Fact is, all those cats we have heard one way or another.

Think of how many Monk, Coltrane, Diz, and Bird records we've all heard. Still, those Town Hall and Carnegie Hall records were spectacular, and still quite revelatory.

Would love to hear Trane and Wes, but I seriously doubt it exists.

Oh yeah - that was mind-boggling how they both came out in the same year.

But, see, that's the point - we HAVE heard them. Bolden seems certain to remain unheard. 'Cept for WM doing his best Buddy impression for Ken Whatshisname. A silly point in a silly question, but what the hey ...

Edited by kenny weir

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I seem to recall that there is an interview somewhere (maybe on a Folkways LP) of Freddie Keppard's brother Louis, in which he offers a witnessing of Bolden's sound -

so it is out there in space somewhere -

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I seem to recall that there is an interview somewhere (maybe on a Folkways LP) of Freddie Keppard's brother Louis, in which he offers a witnessing of Bolden's sound -

so it is out there in space somewhere -

Maybe, but the chances of a cylinder lasting that long - Katrina probably didn't help - seem extremely slim.

I'm looking forward to hearing the redone Freddie by the same folks who did King Oliver. And I figure that when I'm digging Kid Thomas or Bunk Johnson, I'm at least getting the spirit of the thing, as opposed to WM's efforts.

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I agree, actually I wasn't defending Wynton, just noting that we have some idea of Bolden, but who knows? he may have sounded like Don Cherry - or Herb Alpert -

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From the Lennie Tristano Forum (11/30/2004):

"In roughly 1985 I ran across a compilation album that included two tracks said to be Lennie Tristano, in 1943, overdubbing four tenor sax recordings, unaccompanied, with two 78 rpm disc recorders. They were two jazz standards of the thirties.

The recording was in a huge LP collection at a radio station where I did a weekly jazz program till twelve years ago. I have visited the station several times and tried to find it, with no success. Unfortunately, I seem only to recall the album title ended with the word "forties or 40s". I cannot recall who else was on the album or the album's label, just that there were eight tracks, including the two of Tristano.

Tristano, once more, has been unaccredited as being ahead of his time. Those two unprecedented tracks were certainly well ahead of Les Paul's overdubbing of 1949.

Is there anyone reading this that has those two Tristano tracks? I would love a copy, or even just the label and album title so I could search for it. Any help is welcome.

Bob Fox"

Q

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