Joe Henderson '60s Blue Note

[sidewinder]

The strong support here for Our Thing is really interesting to me, given that back in the 70s, it was the one JH BN leader date that had gone out of print and had become all obscure and shit. "I got ALL the Joe records." "You got Our Thing?" "Uh....". "Yeah, thought so." Etc.

Interesting to hear that 'Our Thing' was so obscure/hard to get in the US at that time. In the 1970s it was pretty well impossible to get over here (the late 1970s Transamerica UK issues didn't cover it). Then when Pathe Marconi opened the floodgates around 1983/84 it was available quite early on in that schedule I think. Really liked it from the off - and Andrew Hill's work on it was a revelation.

Edited June 28, 2015 by sidewinder

[Clunky]

Our Thing was the first JH I heard. I was so taken by Andrew Hill ( i'd not heard of him at that point)  that I picked up Eternal Spirit which was then a current release. I recall real joy listening intently to Hill's playing on both and revelling with self satisfaction that I'd discovered someone really good. Rara avis indeed. The next one I got would be Page One, which struck me initially as tamer , more commercial etc and somewhat pedestrian. I now of course love all his BNs and they are amongst my favourite in the whole BN catalogue. 

[StarThrower]

Our Thing was the first JH I heard. I was so taken by Andrew Hill ( i'd not heard of him at that point)  that I picked up Eternal Spirit which was then a current release. I recall real joy listening intently to Hill's playing on both and revelling with self satisfaction that I'd discovered someone really good. Rara avis indeed. The next one I got would be Page One, which struck me initially as tamer , more commercial etc and somewhat pedestrian. I now of course love all his BNs and they are amongst my favourite in the whole BN catalogue. 

I never really got into Page One. Bought it after I had been listening to Inner Urge, and In n Out. I finally ordered Our Thing after years of procrastination. I'm really looking forward to it, as I'm on a Kenny Dorham kick at the moment.

[erwbol]

Our Thing was the first JH I heard. I was so taken by Andrew Hill ( i'd not heard of him at that point)  that I picked up Eternal Spirit which was then a current release. I recall real joy listening intently to Hill's playing on both and revelling with self satisfaction that I'd discovered someone really good. Rara avis indeed. The next one I got would be Page One, which struck me initially as tamer , more commercial etc and somewhat pedestrian. I now of course love all his BNs and they are amongst my favourite in the whole BN catalogue. 

I never really got into Page One. Bought it after I had been listening to Inner Urge, and In n Out. I finally ordered Our Thing after years of procrastination. I'm really looking forward to it, as I'm on a Kenny Dorham kick at the moment.

Page One seemed tame to me as well, although the lifeless RVG mastering didn't help. I now think it's a great record from start to finish.

Edited October 21, 2015 by erwbol

[StarThrower]

Haven't listened to Red Clay in ages. I don't mind electric piano. I've listened to Mark Murphy's version more than Hubbard's. The 32 Jazz transfers sound like crap. Somebody should reissue Mark's Muse catalog with updated sound.

 

Similiar to Page One, I didn't like Dorham's Una Mas much either, but it's growing on me. I still think In n Out is their best stuff. Kenny and Joe that is.

 

[BFrank]

Haven't listened to Red Clay in ages. I don't mind electric piano. I've listened to Mark Murphy's version more than Hubbard's. The 32 Jazz transfers sound like crap. Somebody should reissue Mark's Muse catalog with updated sound.

 

I like both versions, and am totally OK with electric piano when played tastefully (which it is IMO).

Agreed about someone reissuing Mark Murphy's Muse catalog!

[JSngry]

[Larry Kart]

A bit off topic, but the best Henderson I know (represented only on half a Milestone album, I believe) is when he had the working band that included Curtis Fuller, altoist Pete Yellin, George Cables, Stanley Clarke, and Lenny White. Heard them live in Chicago at the North Park Hotel in the early '70s, and they were on fire.

[Bill Nelson]

The LP you're thinking of is 'In Pursuit of Blackness' (three tracks running 28:05, rec. May 12, 1971, issued on Milestone 9034).

Don't know why Orrin Keepnews splintered this album by adding a track on each side from JH's previous Milestone live date, 'If You're Not Part of the Solution, You're Part of the Problem' (MSP-9028).  Almost as wacked as Dick Bock, but instead of slicing-up tapes Keepnews gives the customer 15:04 mins. of Joe's prior group with Woody Shaw, Tony Waters, and Ron McClure, prior to Yellin and Fuller.  

[Joe]

Not BN, but Milestone: TETRAGON. Superb stuff. not as intense as INNER URGE, but certainly as saxophonistic, if that makes any sense. I just mean this is saxophone playing of rare sensitivity; this is a player who understands his instrument at a profound level. Lucky Thompson, though a very different tenor, is another musician of this caliber.

And I do wish Henderson and Don Friedman might have had more recorded encounters.

[Bill Nelson]

Since I just mentioned it, please sample how the super-bad Henderson Quintet with Lenny White was burning-up the Lighthouse in late 1970:

 

 

[jeffcrom]

The LP you're thinking of is 'In Pursuit of Blackness' (three tracks running 28:05, rec. May 12, 1971, issued on Milestone 9034).

Don't know why Orrin Keepnews splintered this album by adding a track on each side from JH's previous Milestone live date, 'If You're Not Part of the Solution, You're Part of the Problem' (MSP-9028).  Almost as wacked as Dick Bock, but instead of slicing-up tapes Keepnews gives the customer 15:04 mins. of Joe's prior group with Woody Shaw, Tony Waters, and Ron McClure, prior to Yellin and Fuller.  

If I remember correctly, it was a compromise between Keepnews and Henderson. Keepnews was planning on issuing a second album of the Lighthouse material, but at the last minute, Henderson decided that he wanted the album to be of his new group. They compromised, resulting in In Pursuit of Blackness.

[Mark Stryker]

The strong support here for Our Thing is really interesting to me, given that back in the 70s, it was the one JH BN leader date that had gone out of print and had become all obscure and shit. "I got ALL the Joe records." "You got Our Thing?" "Uh....". "Yeah, thought so." Etc. I had to get my copy by trading a readily available Miles LP to the college radio station. Miles Ahead, I think it was. "We'll probably never play this" was their argument against the trade. "But you don't play the Joe record either, and this Miles record is in MUCH better condition, so you could if you ever wanted to" was my counter, and it was counter enough, because I don't know where their Joe side had come from, but it was worn like some student of yore had brought it in one night years ago, left it, and was too high to ever remember where they had left it. It was more than a little "gently" used, but it played. Good enough eats for a hungry man..

I like it when once "cult"-y records become kinda "common wisdom" things. Like it a lot, but still wonder why it wasn't always like that, I mean, geez, Unity used to be like, a Mystical Quest or something, now it's like, hell, EVERYBODY got Unity, everybody KNOWS Unity, Unity is a given for today''s peoples.  But others, like Indestructible never really "take" in the common mind, and that just mystifies the hell out of me. And then there's Gettin' Around..neither mourned nor pondered for it's apparently perpetual audiencial meh-ness? I won't. I mean, I jumped for joy when I found that LP, but other than "Heartaches"...when they say "for collectors only", sometimes there's a reason for that. Not every "obscure" record is great, and not every great record is undiscovered. But sometimes, yes they are.

Shit is funny like that, you just never know.

I was a late comer to "Our Thing" precisely because it was so hard to get that I got to know all the others so intimately and fell in love so deeply with "Inner Urge" and "In N Out" that even now, as great as "Our Thing" is, I prefer to stick with my first loves. I also still prefer "Free For All" to "Indestructible" (it ain't even close) and I think I'm right so no arguments. "Unity" was definitely a holy grail record -- I remember getting my first cassette tape copy c. 1985 and listening to it constantly for weeks on my Walkman (remember those?). I adore "Gettin' Around" -- in fact, just yesterday did the Twitter/Facebook, posting "Shiny Stockings" and saying of Dexter: "Now there's a cat who knows how to relax. Hutch, Barry, Bob and especially Billy in no hurry either. Coda: Michael Kocour and I once saw Dexter play 'Moment's Notice' in Chicago and Dexter was so far behind the beat that I swear the rhythm section lapped him at one point." But back to "Gettin' Around" -- yeah, "Heartaches"! That saucy vamp, The sly way Dexter sneaks in with that breathy attack on the melody and the hip way he phrases the tune with that incredible sound, and the way Hutch circles the tenor on the melody (that first vibes fill is so flirty and perfect). That whole record has such an incredibly relaxed feel, but I get why it's not as revered as the others. I mean, in a fire, I'm grabbing Our Man in Paris/Go/Swingin Affair but there's no other record that sounds like "Gettin' Around" and, well, that's what it's all about. .

 

[Cali]

It's interesting to read the reactions to Page One as uninspired. As a person who bought these records in real-time, when they came out, for me, PO was a fresh new sound from an exciting new artist, with great tunes and a stellar band.

Over the years Our Thing has become my favorite, if only for the haunting and beautiful Escapade.

So my 3 favorite Blue Notes by Joe are PO (for sentimental reasons), OT and a tie between Inner Urge and Mode For Joe.

[erwbol]

A bit off topic, but the best Henderson I know (represented only on half a Milestone album, I believe) is when he had the working band that included Curtis Fuller, altoist Pete Yellin, George Cables, Stanley Clarke, and Lenny White. Heard them live in Chicago at the North Park Hotel in the early '70s, and they were on fire.

The LP you're thinking of is 'In Pursuit of Blackness' (three tracks running 28:05, rec. May 12, 1971, issued on Milestone 9034).

Don't know why Orrin Keepnews splintered this album by adding a track on each side from JH's previous Milestone live date, 'If You're Not Part of the Solution, You're Part of the Problem' (MSP-9028).  Almost as wacked as Dick Bock, but instead of slicing-up tapes Keepnews gives the customer 15:04 mins. of Joe's prior group with Woody Shaw, Tony Waters, and Ron McClure, prior to Yellin and Fuller.  

Thanks for putting me on to In Pursuit of Blackness. I had previously dismissed Joe's later Milestone albums as fluff. Those three tracks with the band Larry mentions are especially good.  I ordered a copy of the 90s In Pursuit of Blackness/ Black Is the Color twofer yesterday.

[king ubu]

I can relate to that discussion about "Page One" above. My first was "In 'n' Out" and that one just bursts with power and energy (though I just deleted "forward moving" as I'm not sure it is, might be going in circles really). Still have the old US CD of it, bought from Trueblue, with a white tray (so it's probably yellow by now - how foogly these are!) - years later, "Page One" and "Una Mas" and then "Our Thing" and finally the missing one ("Trompeta Toccata", just had to think for a moment, didn't even remember its title) became accessible again. "Page One" and to a lesser extent "Our Thing" always sounded tame by comparison, while that groove on "Una Mas" was an instant love affair. I've grown to like "Our Thing" quite some, though I still prefer Hill playing his own music by a margin. "Page One" on the other hand is one of those where I actually need to hear it to remember how good it really is. It has a somewhat over-controlled air - but then what Henderson hasn't? that's at the core of his playing, of his tenor mastery, and it makes him the extremely accomplished and deeply fascinating player he is ... and yeah, if you hear ambivalence speaking, you're not mistaken - he's definitely not a personal favourite, but rather a musician that continues to challenge me, and that sometimes puts me off, too, sort of locks me out. But of course that's my problem and I've got to deal with it (or not, but I'm certainly fascinated enough to keep going at it)!

[erwbol]

The other day, I put the SHMs of Page One and Our Thing on repeat for several hours (sans alternate takes). Thoroughly addictive music (in these new editions).

Edited August 31, 2015 by erwbol

[Michael Weiss]

The strong support here for Our Thing is really interesting to me, given that back in the 70s, it was the one JH BN leader date that had gone out of print and had become all obscure and shit. "I got ALL the Joe records." "You got Our Thing?" "Uh....". "Yeah, thought so." Etc. I had to get my copy by trading a readily available Miles LP to the college radio station. Miles Ahead, I think it was. "We'll probably never play this" was their argument against the trade. "But you don't play the Joe record either, and this Miles record is in MUCH better condition, so you could if you ever wanted to" was my counter, and it was counter enough, because I don't know where their Joe side had come from, but it was worn like some student of yore had brought it in one night years ago, left it, and was too high to ever remember where they had left it. It was more than a little "gently" used, but it played. Good enough eats for a hungry man..

I like it when once "cult"-y records become kinda "common wisdom" things. Like it a lot, but still wonder why it wasn't always like that, I mean, geez, Unity used to be like, a Mystical Quest or something, now it's like, hell, EVERYBODY got Unity, everybody KNOWS Unity, Unity is a given for today''s peoples.  But others, like Indestructible never really "take" in the common mind, and that just mystifies the hell out of me. And then there's Gettin' Around..neither mourned nor pondered for it's apparently perpetual audiencial meh-ness? I won't. I mean, I jumped for joy when I found that LP, but other than "Heartaches"...when they say "for collectors only", sometimes there's a reason for that. Not every "obscure" record is great, and not every great record is undiscovered. But sometimes, yes they are.

Shit is funny like that, you just never know.

I was a late comer to "Our Thing" precisely because it was so hard to get that I got to know all the others so intimately and fell in love so deeply with "Inner Urge" and "In N Out" that even now, as great as "Our Thing" is, I prefer to stick with my first loves. I also still prefer "Free For All" to "Indestructible" (it ain't even close) and I think I'm right so no arguments. "Unity" was definitely a holy grail record -- I remember getting my first cassette tape copy c. 1985 and listening to it constantly for weeks on my Walkman (remember those?). I adore "Gettin' Around" -- in fact, just yesterday did the Twitter/Facebook, posting "Shiny Stockings" and saying of Dexter: "Now there's a cat who knows how to relax. Hutch, Barry, Bob and especially Billy in no hurry either. Coda: Michael Kocour and I once saw Dexter play 'Moment's Notice' in Chicago and Dexter was so far behind the beat that I swear the rhythm section lapped him at one point." But back to "Gettin' Around" -- yeah, "Heartaches"! That saucy vamp, The sly way Dexter sneaks in with that breathy attack on the melody and the hip way he phrases the tune with that incredible sound, and the way Hutch circles the tenor on the melody (that first vibes fill is so flirty and perfect). That whole record has such an incredibly relaxed feel, but I get why it's not as revered as the others. I mean, in a fire, I'm grabbing Our Man in Paris/Go/Swingin Affair but there's no other record that sounds like "Gettin' Around" and, well, that's what it's all about. .

 

Dexter's solo on "Very Saxily Yours" is a masterpiece. A perfect solo.