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LF: Session Order Of J-Mac's Feb 15,1957 Prestige Session


JSngry

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Jackie McLean discography on internet says this:

Jackie McLean Quartet

Jackie McLean (alto saxophone) Mal Waldron (piano) Arthur Phipps (bass) Art Taylor (drums)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Hackensack, NJ, February 15, 1957
1089I Hear A RhapsodyNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1090Embraceable YouNew Jazz NJLP 8253
1091I Never KnewNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1092These Foolish ThingsNew Jazz NJLP 8253
1093Our Love Is Here To StayNew Jazz NJLP 8212
1094I Cover The WaterfrontNew Jazz NJLP 8253
1095What's NewNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1096Old FolksNew Jazz NJLP 8212
1097Bean And The BoysNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1098Strange BluesPrestige PR 7500
1099OutburstNew Jazz NJLP 8212

* New Jazz NJLP 8231; Original Jazz Classics OJC 197, OJCCD 197-2   Jackie McLean - Makin' The Changes
* New Jazz NJLP 8253; Original Jazz Classics OJC 253, OJCCD 253-2   Jackie McLean - A Long Drink Of The Blues
* New Jazz NJLP 8212; Original Jazz Classics OJC 098, OJCCD 098-2   Jackie McLean - McLean's Scene
* Prestige PR 7500; Original Jazz Classics OJC 354, OJCCD 354-2   Jackie McLean - Strange Blues

 

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Thanks. Pretty productive day at the office. Looking forward to re-creating it from all the pieces, sometimes that's "revealing", sometimes not. But I'm not surprised that "Outburst" was the last tune of the day. Hard to see anywhere to go from there (time/place/etc).

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Jackie McLean discography on internet says this:

Jackie McLean Quartet

Jackie McLean (alto saxophone) Mal Waldron (piano) Arthur Phipps (bass) Art Taylor (drums)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Hackensack, NJ, February 15, 1957
1089I Hear A RhapsodyNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1090Embraceable YouNew Jazz NJLP 8253
1091I Never KnewNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1092These Foolish ThingsNew Jazz NJLP 8253
1093Our Love Is Here To StayNew Jazz NJLP 8212
1094I Cover The WaterfrontNew Jazz NJLP 8253
1095What's NewNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1096Old FolksNew Jazz NJLP 8212
1097Bean And The BoysNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1098Strange BluesPrestige PR 7500
1099OutburstNew Jazz NJLP 8212

* New Jazz NJLP 8231; Original Jazz Classics OJC 197, OJCCD 197-2   Jackie McLean - Makin' The Changes
* New Jazz NJLP 8253; Original Jazz Classics OJC 253, OJCCD 253-2   Jackie McLean - A Long Drink Of The Blues
* New Jazz NJLP 8212; Original Jazz Classics OJC 098, OJCCD 098-2   Jackie McLean - McLean's Scene
* Prestige PR 7500; Original Jazz Classics OJC 354, OJCCD 354-2   Jackie McLean - Strange Blues

 

Every track was laid down in one take?? That doesn't seem very likely at all. I wonder where these take numbers came from?

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Jackie McLean discography on internet says this:

Jackie McLean Quartet

Jackie McLean (alto saxophone) Mal Waldron (piano) Arthur Phipps (bass) Art Taylor (drums)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Hackensack, NJ, February 15, 1957
1089I Hear A RhapsodyNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1090Embraceable YouNew Jazz NJLP 8253
1091I Never KnewNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1092These Foolish ThingsNew Jazz NJLP 8253
1093Our Love Is Here To StayNew Jazz NJLP 8212
1094I Cover The WaterfrontNew Jazz NJLP 8253
1095What's NewNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1096Old FolksNew Jazz NJLP 8212
1097Bean And The BoysNew Jazz NJLP 8231
1098Strange BluesPrestige PR 7500
1099OutburstNew Jazz NJLP 8212

* New Jazz NJLP 8231; Original Jazz Classics OJC 197, OJCCD 197-2   Jackie McLean - Makin' The Changes
* New Jazz NJLP 8253; Original Jazz Classics OJC 253, OJCCD 253-2   Jackie McLean - A Long Drink Of The Blues
* New Jazz NJLP 8212; Original Jazz Classics OJC 098, OJCCD 098-2   Jackie McLean - McLean's Scene
* Prestige PR 7500; Original Jazz Classics OJC 354, OJCCD 354-2   Jackie McLean - Strange Blues

 

Every track was laid down in one take?? That doesn't seem very likely at all. I wonder where these take numbers came from?

Seems pretty consistent with the Weinstock aesthetic to me... either that or the Prestige vaults were wiped of alternate takes long before Fantasy acquired their holdings.

Amazing to think one session produced that many intense, brooding, "full-on" ballads.

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Nothing there that should need more than one take if everybody's hitting, all standards, just set the format, run the tape, and there you go.

I still wonder how much of the "incentive" behind this session done this was was the date with Ray Draper just one week earlier. That one did sound like anybody was having fun, to be honest, whereas this looks and sounds like Jackie or Weinstock or somebody came out of it saying, ah, that was not good, let's get back in here and do it right, forget the frills, let's just bring in a quartet and blow hard on a bunch of standards.

And if you're looking at a union standard three hour session, you got 11 songs in three hours, a little more than 16 minutes per song on the average. That's about the right time to set a routine, run anything you want to cover, slate it, take it, hear a little playback, and move on. Lather, rinse, repeat.

"Blowing session" or not, though, that's one successful session!

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I've seen session logs and heard quite a few session tapes by this time in my life and I cannot think of one date where there weren't several false starts or where someone whiffs on a run. I can see sequential take numbers like this if someone took the master tape and spliced together an "LP master" and gave it new take numbers but I have a hard time believing that these guys hit every one of these takes on the first try. After all, this was not a regular working band, was it?

Maybe Chuck Nessa, who has sat in on a few sessions in his day, can tell me I'm wrong.

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I've seen session logs and heard quite a few session tapes by this time in my life and I cannot think of one date where there weren't several false starts or where someone whiffs on a run. I can see sequential take numbers like this if someone took the master tape and spliced together an "LP master" and gave it new take numbers but I have a hard time believing that these guys hit every one of these takes on the first try. After all, this was not a regular working band, was it?

Maybe Chuck Nessa, who has sat in on a few sessions in his day, can tell me I'm wrong.

False starts, etc. are easily allowed for, sure, but it's not like there's any original material or challenging arrangements that should require true multiple takes to get right, just one horn + rhythm trio. We're really talking jam session fare here, and who is there on this date who was not gonna ace that type stuff (especially on a good day, which this appears to have been)? Mal Waldron? Art Taylor? Hell those guys got called for so many dates precisely because of their reliability.  And Jackie sounds like he came to bring the heat from note one. So, really, essentially club gig, no do-overs there, right? This was Prestige, remember, bring 'em in, move 'em out, put out the records.

Eleven songs in three hours, not a whole lot of room for starting over there.

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For grins, let's add up the times of these things:

 

 
1089I Hear A Rhapsody5:09
1090Embraceable You7:05
1091I Never Knew3:02
1092These Foolish Things8:19
1093Our Love Is Here To Stay4:19
1094I Cover The Waterfront6:24
1095What's New7:10
1096Old Folks4:53
1097Bean And The Boys8:35
1098Strange Blues7:32
1099Outburst4:33
  
   

Missing is an alternate (a-HA!) of "What's New" on Strange Blues which clocks in 6:35. Total time of issued music = 73:36 for 12 songs (the Jazz Discog thing misses the alternate of "What's New". This from a time when the standard for pop records was to get 4 songs/session. Of course, jazz mo'swifter unless shit go bad (and lord knows...), and of course there's bathroom breaks, etc.

Again, the point is not that everything was one take perfect (although, again, do the math, not a lot went wrong, nor should it have, not with these players and this material), just that it was a damn productive session. And the further it goes along, the better it gets!

And it would fit on one CD. Where's our "For Discrinimalating Collectioneers Only" shady-grady labels with Jackie McLean - The Legendary February 15, 1957 Session?

  

 

 

  
   
   
   
   
   
  

This looks like it was taken from jazzdisco.org.  Does anyone here have Ruppli's Prestige discography?

This. I would like to know which take of "What's New" came first, or if they were even played sequentially.

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This looks like it was taken from jazzdisco.org.  Does anyone here have Ruppli's Prestige discography?

I have the first edition, with exactly this sequence and these master numbers. As for false starts and incomplete takes, I have never seen any of them listed in the Prestige disco, only rejected or unissued takes. To me it looks like masters numbers were attributed only to complete, accepted takes in the Prestige files.

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Yeah, Prestige of the time did not seem to be a label that obsessed over "perfect" takes, at least not in terms of neatness of heads and such.

Looking for comparably productive sessions, the first thing that comes to mind is the two Miles "contract fulfillment" sessions:

Miles Davis (tpt); John Coltrane (ts); William "Red" Garland (p); Paul Chambers (b); Philly Joe Jones (d)
May 11, 1956 (14 items; TT = 81:49)
1In Your Own Sweet Way (D. Brubeck)5:40
2Diane (E. Rapee-L. Pollack)7:44
3Trane's Blues [John Paul Jones] (M. Davis)8:25
 Before the tune starts, Davis says, "Blues..." followed by Chambers tuning
4Something I Dreamed Last Night (J. Yellen-S. Fain-H. Magidson)6:12
5It Could Happen to You (J. Burke-J. Van Heusen)6:36
 After the tune Davis asks, "How was that, Bob? Okay if we do Woody 'n' You? All right, just Joe..."
6Woody 'n' You (D. Gillespie)5:00
 After the tune, this exchange: "Okay?" Weinstock (joking): "Do that one over." Davis (testily): "Why?" Coltrane (nonchalantly): "Could I have the beer opener?"
7Ahmad's Blues (A. Jamal)7:20
8Surrey with the Fringe on Top (R. Rodgers-O. Hammerstein)9:00
9It Never Entered My Mind (R. Rodgers-L. Hart)5:20
10When I Fall in Love (E. Heyman-V. Young)4:20
 Issued without piano solo on Prestige 45-195
11Salt Peanuts (D. Gillespie-K. Clarke)6:03
12Four (M. Davis)7:10
13The Theme (take 1) (M. Davis)1:57
14The Theme (take 2) (M. Davis)1:02
October 26, 1956 (15 items; TT = 75:00)
Rudy van Gelder Studio, Hackensack NJ
Commercial for Prestige
Miles Davis Quintet
 
Miles Davis (tpt); John Coltrane (ts); William "Red" Garland (p); Paul Chambers (b); Philly Joe Jones (d)
October 26, 1956 (15 items; TT = 75:00)
1If I Were a Bell (F. Loesser)8:13
 Most issues include a brief exchange between Davis and Weinstock at the beginning ("I'll play it and tell you what it is later") and count-off until 0:10
2Well, You Needn't (T. Monk)6:15
3'Round Midnight (B. Hanighen-C. Williams-T. Monk)5:21
4Half Nelson (M. Davis)4:43
5You're My Everything (false start) (M. Dixon-J. Young-H. Warren)0:30
 Davis: "'You're My Everything', Red... Hold it, ev -- you, when you see a red light on, everybody's supposed to be quiet." Van Gelder: "Here we go, Miles." Davis: "All right." False start. Davis: "Play some block chords, Red. All right, Rudy? Block chords, Red..."
6You're My Everything (M. Dixon-J. Young-H. Warren)4:46
7I Could Write a Book (R. Rodgers-L. Hart)5:05
 Issued without p solo on Prestige 45-195
8Oleo (false start) (S. Rollins)0:36
 False start. Davis: "Uh, it's got a four-bar beat." Tuning and rehearsal. Weinstock: "One thousand one..." Davis: "Rudy, turn on the red light." Chambers: "What is it?" Davis: "Newk's number one." Chambers: "Number one... Just like we do it at work?" Davis: "Yeah, watch your tempo, Paul, willya?" Jones: "Yeah, let's keep it up there." Davis: "There you go."
9Oleo (S. Rollins)5:49
10Airegin (S. Rollins)4:21
11Tune Up (M. Davis)5:40
12When Lights Are Low (B. Carter-C. Williams)7:27
 At the end Davis says "Okay... All right. Okay." Listed as "Just Squeeze Me" on cover (but not label) of Prestige 7094
13Blues by Five (false start) (R. Garland)0:24
 Garland: "Who's this? You gonna blow on it?" Davis: "No, you -- the rhythm section's gonna play it first. You're gonna play it first, we're gonna come in. Here you go." Snaps fingers. Garland: "Right on it?" Davis: "Yeah... Right on it." False start. Davis: "Hold it, hold it. That's right on it. That's the chorus, Joe. That's the chorus... Here we go..." Coltrane warming up.
14Blues by Five (R. Garland)9:54
15My Funny Valentine (R. Rodgers-L. Hart)5:56

 

Conventional wisdom is that the band simply showed up, got levels, and then played what for all intents and purposes were two club sets per date. Pauses are definitely part of the mix, but not for much. Two and a half hours of releasable music out of two sessions, even if some OT was involved (was there?), that's pretty damn impressive.

 

 

  
   

 

 

 

  
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
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  • 3 weeks later...

I am a bit confused about whether there actually was an alternate take of "What's New"?

It looks to me like that tune was recorded by two different groups. The quartet version with Mal Waldron, Art Phipps and Art Taylor. 

The version on the "Makin' The Changes" album is by a sextet with:

Jackie McLean, Curtis Fuller, Webster Young, Gil Coggins, Paul Chambers, Louis Hayes

recorded on August 30, 1957

 

Edited by Peter Friedman
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