Clifford Jordan-Strata East Mosaic

[Larry Kart]

Working my way through, I'm intrigued so far -- though the Strata-East recordings have their sonic problems (they're on the linen-closet side, and the piano is no bargain), my ear readily adjusts. Any date, like the first Jordan one, that has a bass team of Wilbur Ware and Richard Davis is going to be interesting, and I was especially caught, on this date and the Cecil Payne one, with much the same personnel, by the comping and solo work of Wynton Kelly (on both piano and organ on the Payne date, at times at once)-- certainly the boldest and most advanced (or if you will "advanced") comping I know of from him. It's like he's been listening some to Tyner, but it's all Kelly in the end, two years before his too early passing. Anyone who digs Kelly needs to hear him here. Charles Brackeen is Charles Brackeen, which is fine with me, and Don Cherry plays his ass off with Brackeen and on the newly issued, two-tune Ed Blackwell date. The first Blackwell all-percussion band track, which is where I'm at, is sensational. Onwards to the land of Pharoah Sanders.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Larry Kart

[gmonahan]

I'm really sitting on the fence about getting this one.  How much of it would you characterize as "free," a la Sanders?  I have some of the "out" stuff in my collection (Trane's Impulse Quartet stuff, Ornette's Atlantics, the Sam Rivers Mosaic), but I confess I don't listen to it much.

 

gregmo

[Larry Kart]

I'm really sitting on the fence about getting this one.  How much of it would you characterize as "free," a la Sanders?  I have some of the "out" stuff in my collection (Trane's Impulse Quartet stuff, Ornette's Atlantics, the Sam Rivers Mosaic), but I confess I don't listen to it much.

 

gregmo

Just about to listen to the Sanders material so I can't report there. The first Jordan date (and no doubt the "The Glass Bead Games" material) and the Payne date are straight-ahead, by the standards of that time. The Blackwell with horns and Brackeen dates are about as free harmonically as early Ornette but certainly swinging. The Blackwell all-percussion date is not unlike those all-percussion Blakey Blue Note albums but IMO more successful based on what I've heard so far, if only because Blackwell is a more integrative, less dominant (albeit very inventive) figure than Blakey tended to be. On the track from that date that I've heard so far, Blackwell's interaction with conga drummer Huss Charles (brother of drummer Dennis Charles, who's also on the date) is stunning. The Wilbur Ware date I haven't yet gotten to -- my guess is that it is somewhat rough-edged, but how could it not be interesting if one loves Ware's playing?

[T.D.]

Thanks, Larry. Very useful info, please post more of your impressions.

I've also been on the fence regarding this set. Was close to pulling the trigger when it first came out, but dissuaded myself because I felt the material might be a bit of a mess (almost said "dog's breakfast", but that's too strong). Your report is making me reassess...

[felser]

I'm really sitting on the fence about getting this one.  How much of it would you characterize as "free," a la Sanders?  I have some of the "out" stuff in my collection (Trane's Impulse Quartet stuff, Ornette's Atlantics, the Sam Rivers Mosaic), but I confess I don't listen to it much.

 

gregmo

Probably not going to be a good set for you then.  Strongly post-Coltrane.  Not "free jazz", but neither is the Coltrane and Ornette you refer to above.

[Guy Berger]

The Sanders date is comparable to his 1969 Impulse! work, so your feelings toward the latter provide a good forecast.  Personally, I like it a lot.

[AllenLowe]

I never like Clifford Jordan's playing - too dull - but I am intrigued by this label, of which I have heard very little.

 

[Guy Berger]

I never like Clifford Jordan's playing - too dull - but I am intrigued by this label, of which I have heard very little.

 

Even on the 1964 Mingus stuff?

[Larry Kart]

I never like Clifford Jordan's playing - too dull....

 

Not IMO. Try, for evidence, "Cliff Craft" (Blue Note) -- early period for Jordan -- and "Bearcat" (OJC) -- his second phase. Lots more fine work from later years. Not every player is or can be is a giant or be "on" every time, but Jordan was a personal, creative player. 

Edited August 15, 2015 by Larry Kart

[AllenLowe]

yeah I've tried, also heard him a bit in NYC in the '70s - he is, to me, like Jimmy Heath - a fine musician but not really interesting, to my ears, as a player - however, will check out the recordings suggested by Larry.

interesting - this may be the best Clifford Jordan I have heard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzuYo6OxkaY

[Chuck Nessa]

Great video. I just think Allen has a CJ allergy.

[Larry Kart]

Some representative Jordan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMb3uhtuXAg (dig drummer J.C. Moses and CJ interact)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhVXKg8SBuc (still a bit Rollins-esque in 1957, but very together)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILJq-sTkhQU (fully mature CJ)

[felser]

I have a specific period of Jordan that works big-time for me, and his playing before and after leave me flat.  He seemed to really find his voice when he played with Roach and Mingus in the early/mid-60's, and kept it through his time with Cedar Walton.  Something happened in the late 70's where he suddenly became a much older and less interesting stylist.  Same thing happened with Jimmy Heath and Phil Woods to my ears.  Their playing got incredibly exciting in the late 60's-early 70's, then they went suddenly retro.

[BFrank]

Some of my favorite Clifford is the mid-70s "Magic Triangle" stuff with Cedar Walton, Sam Jones, Billy Higgins. There are some nice live dates out there.

[paul secor]

Some very fine later Clifford Jordan:

[AllenLowe]

he just always  seems to be holding back - but not in that Lester Young/Lee Konitz/Count Basie/JR Montrose/Hank Mobley/Sir Charles Thompson way that seems to imply so much more.

[gmonahan]

I appreciate these quick responses!  I'll stay tuned to this thread.  I haven't gotten the Anthony Braxton set either, and yes, I know they're radically different sets!

 

gregmo

[BFrank]

As far as Strata-East, the Charles Tolliver Big Band Select is still available.

[Larry Kart]

What has always intrigued me about much of the album "Bearcat," its title track in particular (see link above) is (hope I'm accurate here) its romping boogaloo feel, this stoked considerably by activist drummer J.C Moses, with Jordan right there with him.

So far the Sanders date leaves me cold, but that's the way I've usually felt about him. Onward to the Wilbur Ware date and Jordan's "Glass Bead Games." If the Sanders, as I expect, turns out to be the only dud for me, the set is still a plus.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Larry Kart

[clifford_thornton]

Have or have had all the Strata-East LPs here - missing a copy of the Payne right now, for some reason - but thanks for bringing this up again, as I really want to check out the Ware and Blackwell Frontier dates.

I like Izipho Zam quite a bit, but recognize that it's not everyone's cuppa.

[JSngry]

It's my favorite Pharoah record of that "type", thanks to Sonny Sharrock.

[felser]

I like the Sanders quite a bit.  And find that period of his is fascinating to me, indulgences and all.

 

 

[BFrank]

FYI - I emailed Mosaic about the status of the 'backordered' Clifford Jordan set, and Scott responded: "We’ll know more about all of our back ordered items sometime in mid-January."

[J.A.W.]

As was reported elsewhere this set is now available again. Any more thoughts? I'm also on the fence on this one.

[gmonahan]

1 hour ago, J.A.W. said:

As was reported elsewhere this set is now available again. Any more thoughts? I'm also on the fence on this one.

I was also on the fence, which is why I didn't order it until the "sky is falling" message came out. I'm looking forward to listening so I'll know which side of the fence I *should* have fallen off of!

 

 

gregmo