Clifford Jordan-Strata East Mosaic

[David Ayers]

1 hour ago, J.A.W. said:

I don't think anyone said that, at least I didn't. I was referring to the general negativity on this board as I perceive it. It's been around for a long time and it's one of the reasons I left. Mosaic's problems were the only reason I returned, but, as I said earlier after I had made the mistake of removing an entire thread, I probably shouldn't have. Oh well...

No someone else said 'whiners'. You. and I are on the same page, that this collection isn't a priority for either of us. i don't know why it is negativity not to repurchase this music but anyone who skipped it for the forty years it was easy to find was not being negative. 

[JSngry]

I don't recall In The World ever being "easy to find"?

[David Ayers]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I don't recall In The World ever being "easy to find"?

Like I said, four of them littered the cut-out bins for years. Nearly all of this music is streamable in one form or another. 

[Scott Dolan]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I was bitching about my Mosaic voice mail experience being full-frontal clown-show, and now I'm highly strongly advocating for one of their sets. Either I'm bi-polar, or else I'm evolved enough to process multiple realities simultaneously.

Those of us who were attempting to walk and chew gum at the same time were the reason that J.A.W. deleted the first thread. That kind of thing is obviously frowned upon by many here. They want to set the narrative, and hae everyone else strictly abide it. 

Now, I've already stated that I intend on getting the Beehive set. So yes, it is entirely possible to accept the complete package that Mosaic brings to the table, warts and all. Anyone who cannot accept those complexities has no right to disparage those who do. 

1 hour ago, David Ayers said:

Like I said, four of them littered the cut-out bins for years. Nearly all of this music is streamable in one form or another. 

In The World isn't currently available on Apple Music. 

[soulpope]

19 hours ago, JSngry said:

Jordan's "best" record ever, imo. People love them some Glass Bead Games, but that one's always seemed a little "reigned in" to me. Not this one.

 

Not speaking of "Vienna" feat Wilbur Ware + Richard Davis (!!) ....

[OliverM]

Thanks for the music clips and for reminding me that I have to get this set. James P Johnson is being processed so this will be the next one.

I didn't realize there was so much diversity on this set, all behind such a legendary label.

[JSngry]

About Strata-East in general, and this set in specific - there will never be a Strata-East Plays For Lovers set. or a series of Strata-East Plays The Georgegershwinjeromekernrodgerandhartzcoleporterandallthoseotherguys. That's not accidental, ok? That was quite intentional.

[felser]

I'm very thankful for the set even though in the past I owned most of these titles on vinyl, and a few on inferior CD's.  No, not for everyone.  But certainly for me.  I find 'In The World' and 'Glass Bead Games' to both be fantastic albums, but for different reasons and different seasons.  I have always liked the Pharoah title on this box also, and the Brackeen and Cecil Payne, too.  Glad to have the others also.   And I don't remember EVER seeing a Strata-East in a cut-out bin.  The label was exceedingly quirky at times, especially in its later stages, but this box is a gem.  As are the Tolliver Mosaic Selects, the John Hicks title, and 'Reasons in Tonality' (talk about just playing, that one is something).  The Piano Choir Handscapes 1.  Juju.  The incredible Billy Harper 'Capra Black'.  Charles Sullivan.  Shirley Scott's greatest album.  Harold Vick.  Gil Scott-Heron's landmark 'Winter in America'.  The label was a treasure, horrible misfires (Brother Ah, Muriel Winston, Handscapes 2, Billy C)  and all.

[JSngry]

Muriel Winston!!! That's am odd album, an all Todd Dameron program, but all Tin Pan Alley type love ballads. I keep coming back to it every few years to see if it clicks...it never does. But otoh, Todd Dameron too often is the victim of a reductionist driven repertoire, so this is a reminder that he had other things on his mind as well.

A regular commerce-centric label from that time would not likely entertain that notion or program, nor should they.have. But there was a sense of a specific cultural perspective in every Strata East project that spoke to the desire for self-definition that sometime might or might not be available through standard outlets. That doesn't make a bad record good, but it does go towards intent, and intent is always something to consider sooner or later.

 

[felser]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Muriel Winston!!! That's am odd album, an all Todd Dameron program, but all Tin Pan Alley type love ballads. I keep coming back to it every few years to see if it clicks...it never does. But otoh, Todd Dameron too often is the victim of a reductionist driven repertoire, so this is a reminder that he had other things on his mind as well.

A regular commerce-centric label from that time would not likely entertain that notion or program, nor should they.have. But there was a sense of a specific cultural perspective in every Strata East project that spoke to the desire for self-definition that sometime might or might not be available through standard outlets. That doesn't make a bad record good, but it does go towards intent, and intent is always something to consider sooner or later.

 

Yeah, things like the Jayne Cortez and the Descendents of Mike and Phoebe and M'Boom and some other titles had great, honorable intent, even if content-wise they left me cold.  (the Mtume also basically fits that category, though it has some musical redemption).   And others, like the Harper and the Scott-Heron and Juju, had incredible intent along with incredible music.

[jlhoots]

I have the Japanese P-Vine CD version of In the World. I'm happy with it.

[JSngry]

Oh, I LOVE that Jayne Cortez!

 

[Hot Ptah]

What is this Brother Ah misfire of which you speak, John? I have liked the Brother Ah albums that I have heard. Which one were you referring to?

[JSngry]

We discussed this in 2005!

Here's the personnel, definitely a "family business" thing going on, and thinking about the still-ongoing debate about the lack of really impactful Black Capital, here were people trying to instill it and do it. Self-determination, self-definition.

Clifford Jordan (flute) Stanley Cowell (piano) Bill Lee (bass violin) Billy Higgins (drums, percussion) Muriel Winston (voice, vocals, recitation, piano) and Children's Chorus: Becky Childs, Shirley Childs, LaVerne Gilliam, Joy Lee, Natalie Roche, Theresa Roche (chorus)

But still, an album that has yet to grab me, but damned if I'm selling my copy. History is sometimes its own justification.

And really, the notion of Tadd Dameron writing "pop songs" to be sung, not that unusual, really.

Is it "good"? Hell if I know, hell if I care. "Good music" is for suckers!

[felser]

2 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

What is this Brother Ah misfire of which you speak, John? I have liked the Brother Ah albums that I have heard. Which one were you referring to?

 

[Hot Ptah]

10 hours ago, felser said:

 

I may be in a minority but I like that album a lot.

[Rooster_Ties]

22 hours ago, jlhoots said:

I have the Japanese P-Vine CD version of In the World. I'm happy with it.

I do too -- as well as the Jordan Mosaic box now.  Looking for a good home for the P-Vine CD version, though I haven't really been shopping it around or anything.

[Bill Nelson]

My nine-day delivery of the Jordan Strata-East box:

July 14, ordered late afternoon, media rate postage

July 22, arrived in perfect condition

Sorry boys, but I can't dogpile on the Mosaic Shipping Kvetch-athon.

 

[Scott Dolan]

Nobody was asking you to. 

You had a great shipping experience, and should rightfully note it. 

Others haven't, and they should also rightfully note it. 

[clifford_thornton]

I'd love to see a really nice Strata-East series of reissues but I guess since most of the music reverted to the artists after the label folded, it's really up to estates (and pirate labels) to make a lot of this stuff available again.

The Brother Ahh is really good, as is the Jayne Cortez. And the Descendants of Mike & Phoebe. And the John Gordons. Hell, most of the catalog is cool (if not always desert-island material).

And yeah, In The World is not a rare LP. Have had no trouble finding sealed ones, even in 2017. They must've manufactured at least a few thousand copies.

[JSngry]

Really! I've only seen one copy, and I bought it on the spot. That was in, like, 1983 or so.

Are you sure all those sealed copies you're finding today are legit?

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, they're legit. Tip-on Strata-East jacket, white (not two-color) Dolphy Series labels, 463 West St. address. To be fair, these have been seen over the years in NYC and Chicago, and the only ones I saw in Texas were trashed copies.

[JSngry]

I found mine in Santa Fe, a place called Nicholas Potter, Bookseller. Still in business apparently. They was almost entirely a boodsore, obviously, but had a little bin of used LPs in the back, of which this was one. Noonah was another, I forget what all else. I bought what they had that I liked, came back six months later and the stock had not changed one bit, so the records must have been some wierd afterthought of a collection dump, I guess. I'm wanting to say that there was a fair amount of classical in that mix, and I wish I had more curiosity  about that music then, because if that selection was of the same caliber as the jazz...oh well, no sense crying over split milk, right?

Anyway, here the guy is today, dig it.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, I've found good records in Santa Fe. Recall a trip when I was just getting into jazz in the late 90s and finding a store with BYGs, Shandars, India Navigation, all sorts of stuff. Everything was cheap and I bought anything that looked remotely interesting. I believe that is where I first heard Bill Dixon's music, on a BYG reissue of the Savoy split 7-tette/NY Contemporary Five album.

[JSngry]

And that brings to mind that although I have record-hunted/bottom fed so much over the years in search of music, it's been just as much fun going into these, uh, "odd" places and thrift stores and dustymusty mom/pops and soaking up the ambiance, the smells, the different people and the distinctive (or in some cases. "distinctive") people and personalities, owners and customers both. Nicholas Potter in 1983 was a quirky guy, ok, but look at him now, he's still got that quirk and is making it work for him. Not everybody has, alas.

Lord knows, I like "characters", and between musicians and record stores and different loyalists of each, it's been a virtual feast of them. Standardization of businesses is effieint and all that, but it decreases the Quirk Factor to an exponentially negative degree, imo. Then again, I'm getting old. Tempus fugit, etc.