iTunes Blues

[fasstrack]

2 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

If all you have to do is "click on files", then why do you need to set Windows Media player as your default player?!

Pretty hilarious how you spent so much energy disparaging Apple, yet are having curse-worthy problems with your shiny new laptop that I never experience when using my iTunes library. Perhaps it has been user error the entire time. Ever stop to consider that? 

No. And did you ever consider 'to each his own?'

9 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

I don't think you understand how this works, Joel. You have to have an audio program to rip and play your music. It's not just "the laptop" that will be doing it. 

I also don't get the extreme hatred for iTunes. For ripping and audio playback, it's just as solid as anything else on the market. 

Never said I hated itunes. What I did say is 'I don't need it'. I stand by that. Go ahead and enjoy yours, though. Salud!..

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I've spent the last 2-3 months working essentially phone-only (Android, of course), kind of a forced-necessity type thing, just to get the feel of that. It's good medicine, but it tastes bad!

One thing I think we all need to realize is that the only way that any of this telecommunications stuff goes backwards is if electricity of any kind becomes wholly extinct. Until then, "evolve or die" might be a bit strong in the short term, but in terms of the long game...that's about the size of it.

Well, I'll be 73 in a couple of weeks and I can't be arsed to eff around with things that other people want me to do before I die

MG

[fasstrack]

If anyone here wants to buy  me an iphone, pad, or pod, I will gladly take you up on that generous and thoughtful offer 

 

'I will gladly pay you Friday (Tuesday?) for a hamburger today'

 

---Wimpy

 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

1 hour ago, fasstrack said:

Never said I hated itunes. What I did say is 'I don't need it'. I stand by that. Go ahead and enjoy yours, though. Salud!..

Yeah, I'M the one who said he hated iTunes. Not because it don't work, but because Apple insist on trying to make me think like them. I don't do other people's minds, only mine.

MG

[fasstrack]

1 hour ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

Yeah, I'M the one who said he hated iTunes. Not because it don't work, but because Apple insist on trying to make me think like them. I don't do other people's minds, only mine.

MG

Yeah. See, Scott? SEE? 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

2 hours ago, fasstrack said:

Yeah. See, Scott? SEE? 

MG

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

Yeah, I'M the one who said he hated iTunes. Not because it don't work, but because Apple insist on trying to make me think like them. I don't do other people's minds, only mine.

MG

Welllllllllll....if you successfully engage with software at all, you're going to have to eventually think like the developers and coders. Windows, Linux, Apple, whoever. If you don't, you will not get anything done.

Until we get some kind of Vulcan Mind-Meld operating system where you can think it and have it happen with nothing in between, there will be that.

Having said that, I really don't like the way that apple software "thinks", I actually like to work a little harder than that as far as being engaged in a process, and don't want to get disengaged to the point to where I think there's no machine involved, that I really am creating my own reality all by myself.

Of course, anybody on any platform can end up like that, but for me personally, what I've seen of Apple seems that they would make it easier for me personally to drift off into that. So I avoid. Do I trust myself not to get lazy? About as far as I can throw me with one hand tied behind my back.

Mileages will vary, obviously.

[Scott Dolan]

2 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

If you want to delete an album from iTunes, you click it to select it, press your delete button then, like Windows or most other stuff, it'll ask if you do want to delete the songs (no asshole, I've selected an album, don't wanna delete songs but the whole shebang  and there are no songs, just a fifty minute sermon ). THEN you can't say yes or no, but you have to say delete.

Sorry, that's not the way people in every culture respond to such a question. In other software they expect, rationally, that you'll say yes or no.

MG

I'm really not understanding what you're trying to say. 

In iTunes if I want to delete an album, I move my cursor over it, right click, choose delete, it asks me to verify I want to delete, and delete it does. 

That's SOP for pretty much every computer program that runs on OS X and Microsoft. 

What a I missing here? 

[fasstrack]

1 hour ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

MG

I do fancy myself the jokester. Life being short and all...  

[Scott Dolan]

Joel, you never answered my question. Why do you need to set Window Media Player as your default player if all you have to do is click on files to make them play? 

[JSngry]

I'm gonna blame Groove Music. Some shit they put on there makes itself the default player and then you gotta get under the hood a little bit to un-default it. Usually it's as simple as going into WMP and choosing file type associations and then defaults. Or was that simple, no idea what's there now.

And I would think/hope that in iTunes there is a user setting for requesting confirmation of some or all actions, especially delete. I mean, is anybody really THAT confident?

[fasstrack]

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

Joel, you never answered my question. Why do you need to set Window Media Player as your default player if all you have to do is click on files to make them play? 

Right, as Jim just said, my new laptop came with Groove Music---thus far a piece of s%^t---pre-installed.

 

But I think 1 or both of us is confused: I meant to say Media Player for downloads or web radio, library from control panel for files (none of which, BTW, are loaded yet. They were burned from CDs onto the hard drive of my now-retired old laptop. I'm waiting for a DVD/CCD ROM drive to arrive any day, so I can burn them onto the hard drive of the new one. Sorry about any confusion I may have caused earlier,,,

 

 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

2 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

I'm really not understanding what you're trying to say. 

In iTunes if I want to delete an album, I move my cursor over it, right click, choose delete, it asks me to verify I want to delete, and delete it does. 

That's SOP for pretty much every computer program that runs on OS X and Microsoft. 

What a I missing here? 

What you're missing is, when it asks you to verify it does so in a way that's counter-intuitive to the way human beings think. The options it offers are Delete and cancel, whereas everyone confronted by the question 'Are you sure you want to ...' will instinctively want to reply Y or N, because that's common to every culture on earth, iTunes wants you to press D or C. All the others expect Y or N.

Why is Apple different? They want to be different.

Well, bollocks to 'em, from The Magnificent Goldberg.

MG

[fasstrack]

Self-absorbed update to Jim and Scott: just dumped Groove and set Media Player as default.

 

'f them all, they can't take a joke'

---National Lampoon, sometime in the '70s...

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

What you're missing is, when it asks you to verify it does so in a way that's counter-intuitive to the way human beings think. The options it offers are Delete and cancel, whereas everyone confronted by the question 'Are you sure you want to ...' will instinctively want to reply Y or N, because that's common to every culture on earth, iTunes wants you to press D or C. All the others expect Y or N.

Why is Apple different? They want to be different.

Well, bollocks to 'em, from The Magnificent Goldberg.

MG

Counter-intuitive...for us, anyway. Sometimes I see software - proprietary business software, mind you, where the "Accept/Yes/Etc" button is on the right. I spent years getting programmed to react to "Yes" being the first, i.e. left, choice..."Yes or No", not "No or Yes"

Also seeing more and more naming conventions switching to straightup First Last instead of Last, First. Either people are going ITunes/File Artist Name crazy or else alphabetization by last name, like handwriting, is becoming a lost art. Or maybe it's that everything has gotten so micro-monetized that ultimately commas cost more in terms of data space/capacity. Am I kidding? Maybe?

Evolution continues...my personal opinions notwithstanding, it continues. All I can do is watch and pay attention.

[rostasi]

I think we could've had a couple less pages of this discussion
if we had known that Joel actual does have audio player software
(Windows Media Player), tho he seemed to not know this himself.

As for the "getting under the hood" idea, yes, it's true, but the 
thing that you're getting under the hood to do is usually to fix
something that a PC should do naturally or to fix some software
prob that sometimes has been left up to the user to beta test.
While the PC guy is trying to get his piano delivered thru the
front door of the performance space, the Mac guy not only has
his piano waiting for him, but it's been tuned and calibrated to
room acoustics and tried out with a full version of Klavierstück X! 
I prefer to be that guy - the guy who is all ready and set to get on
with the performance - or even to "get under the hood" even further -
a personalization of his sound maybe thru "preparing" his piano
for the "Sonatas and Interludes..." for instance. American Motors
Corporation (like PCs and their fondness for multi-corp "parts"
i.e. software) had the Hornet which you could certainly spend some
time "under-the-hood" ... and then there's a Prius, for example, 
which you have the option of spending time "under-the-hood."

Deleting stuff: when you delete a tune or more, yes, you have the
choice of removing or changing your mind. This is done the very
first time you ever try to delete something - it's a courtesy, not
a nefarious plot or an attempt at insult. There's a click-box:
"Do not ask me again" if you never want to be asked again. Done.

Earlier, I mentioned variations on "delete." This is even more helpful
for more deep-down possibilities if they're needed. iTunes, for instance,
makes it possible to completely delete that song for good by putting it
in the trash...or you can remove it from your library while still keeping it
on your hard drive. Choice! Glorious choice! One I'm needing and liking
right now because I have three-quarters of a million tunes in iTunes now.

Being "different" in the case of a lack of "yes" or "no" choice is based,
not on ego, but rather the real experience of dealing with something
that is not human, and a consideration of human foibles. When presented
with "yes" or "no" in machine language, there is no such thing as it being 
"counter-intuitive to the way human beings think," because there is no
standard template for that. A human could just as easily get impatient
and think "No" as in: "no, I don't want that song anymore" and hit "No"
and get frustrated that the song wasn't deleted. I see variations of this kind
of thing on online forums often. It's like the guy who wants to go up on the
elevator, but presses the "down" button to bring the elevator down to his floor.
You have to "think different" sometimes when dealing with something that
is second-guessing what people - of all kinds - will think and interpret. 
The idea of slogging off a complete system because of a semantic dislike
is something I can safely say I've yet to encounter - until now.

Edited September 22, 2016 by rostasi

[fasstrack]

1 hour ago, rostasi said:

I think we could've had a couple less pages of this discussion
if we had known that Joel actual does have audio player software
(Windows Media Player), tho he seemed to not know this himself.

  

 

Duh....I knew that...

To quote a great trumpet player and even greater wit, John Eckert;

 

'They said it was idiot-proof, but I think I found a way to beat it'... 

[JSngry]

I like to think of a perfect piano as something one gets to, not something that is just always there.

The one thing I have no real appetite for is a more perfect mediocrity.

[Scott Dolan]

I'm more confused now, and I didn't think that was possible. 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

15 hours ago, rostasi said:

I think we could've had a couple less pages of this discussion
if we had known that Joel actual does have audio player software
(Windows Media Player), tho he seemed to not know this himself.

As for the "getting under the hood" idea, yes, it's true, but the 
thing that you're getting under the hood to do is usually to fix
something that a PC should do naturally or to fix some software
prob that sometimes has been left up to the user to beta test.
While the PC guy is trying to get his piano delivered thru the
front door of the performance space, the Mac guy not only has
his piano waiting for him, but it's been tuned and calibrated to
room acoustics and tried out with a full version of Klavierstück X! 
I prefer to be that guy - the guy who is all ready and set to get on
with the performance - or even to "get under the hood" even further -
a personalization of his sound maybe thru "preparing" his piano
for the "Sonatas and Interludes..." for instance. American Motors
Corporation (like PCs and their fondness for multi-corp "parts"
i.e. software) had the Hornet which you could certainly spend some
time "under-the-hood" ... and then there's a Prius, for example, 
which you have the option of spending time "under-the-hood."

Deleting stuff: when you delete a tune or more, yes, you have the
choice of removing or changing your mind. This is done the very
first time you ever try to delete something - it's a courtesy, not
a nefarious plot or an attempt at insult. There's a click-box:
"Do not ask me again" if you never want to be asked again. Done.

Earlier, I mentioned variations on "delete." This is even more helpful
for more deep-down possibilities if they're needed. iTunes, for instance,
makes it possible to completely delete that song for good by putting it
in the trash...or you can remove it from your library while still keeping it
on your hard drive. Choice! Glorious choice! One I'm needing and liking
right now because I have three-quarters of a million tunes in iTunes now.

Being "different" in the case of a lack of "yes" or "no" choice is based,
not on ego, but rather the real experience of dealing with something
that is not human, and a consideration of human foibles. When presented
with "yes" or "no" in machine language, there is no such thing as it being 
"counter-intuitive to the way human beings think," because there is no
standard template for that. A human could just as easily get impatient
and think "No" as in: "no, I don't want that song anymore" and hit "No"
and get frustrated that the song wasn't deleted. I see variations of this kind
of thing on online forums often. It's like the guy who wants to go up on the
elevator, but presses the "down" button to bring the elevator down to his floor.
You have to "think different" sometimes when dealing with something that
is second-guessing what people - of all kinds - will think and interpret. 
The idea of slogging off a complete system because of a semantic dislike
is something I can safely say I've yet to encounter - until now.

Thank you, Rod. I think you're wrong, but I can live with that explanation.

However (there's ALWAYS one)

'it's a courtesy, not
a nefarious plot or an attempt at insult. There's a click-box:
"Do not ask me again" if you never want to be asked again. Done.'

OK, as far as it goes, but personally, I do find it useful to have that because if I DID hit the delete button, meaning to hit 'insert' or 'end', I know it'll make me check.

MG

[Scott Dolan]

But it does, unless you instruct it otherwise. And that option (to never be asked again) isn't even available when it comes to deletion. 

[rostasi]

Two (or three) glorious choices:

Simple deletion:

I haven't checked the box, because I like to be reminded just in case I'm getting
ready to do something I really didn't want, BUT, there's still the option to check it.

 

a more advanced deletion:

I've used both of the options on the right.

Edited September 23, 2016 by rostasi

[Scott Dolan]

That's odd. I never get the don't ask me again options on my iMac. Maybe it's a Windows thing? 

Either way, I still fail to see what's so offensive and different about the deletion options. How is Apple trying to get me to "think differently"? I either want to delete it or I don't. 

[rostasi]

It's only different in that it doesn't say "yes" or "no" - 
which, as I pointed out is actually not natural when
it comes to man/machine language communication.
"Yes" or "No" interaction is good for machine-to-machine
communication tho.
 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

2 hours ago, rostasi said:

Two (or three) glorious choices:

Simple deletion:

I haven't checked the box, because I like to be reminded just in case I'm getting
ready to do something I really didn't want, BUT, there's still the option to check it.

 

a more advanced deletion:

I've used both of the options on the right.

Funny, I get neither of those messages. Perhaps it's because I haven't updated iTunes. I can't be bothered with firms' eternal updates, unless they want to tell me what I'm actually going to get for them.

MG