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Jimmy Smith - Where the Spies Are


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41 minutes ago, robertoart said:

I found it for a fiver and thought it was my lucky day (and I think it mentions Kenny Burrell in the liner notes). And then I got home and played it :(

Sinatra and his people always pushed the line that "his songs were too good for the charts" :D Miles always wanted a chart buster too.

 

42 minutes ago, robertoart said:

I found it for a fiver and thought it was my lucky day (and I think it mentions Kenny Burrell in the liner notes). And then I got home and played it :(

Sinatra and his people always pushed the line that "his songs were too good for the charts" :D Miles always wanted a chart buster too.

FWIW there's a transcription of Wynton's solo on a calyso, Little Tracy, in some book of solos.

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On 11/3/2015, 10:40:51, robertoart said:

 

Sinatra and his people always pushed the line that "his songs were too good for the charts" :D Miles always wanted a chart buster too.

Hmmmm . . .  I'm wondering exactly when Mr. Sinatra and "his people" always pushed this line.  Was it during the 1940's when he was either the most popular or the second most popular (behind Bing Crosby) male singer in the country?  Was it during the 1950's when, following his From Here To Eternity comeback, his recordings were perhaps even more popular than ever and he was a regular presence on radio, television, nightclubs, concert stages and in films?  Was it during the 1960's when, despite the youth culture shift in the music business, he was still hitting the record charts with songs like "That's Life", "Strangers In The Night", "It Was a Very Good Year", "Something Stupid" and "My Way"?  Was it during the 1970's when, after returning from his "retirement", no one really expected his records to make the pop charts any longer and yet he still managed to do so towards the end of that decade with "Theme From New York, New York"?

I'm a Sinatra fan and I've quite frankly never heard this "line" that was "always pushed", so I'm curious where and when this notion comes from.

Edited by duaneiac
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On 7 November 2015 12:51:29 pm, duaneiac said:

Hmmmm . . .  I'm wondering exactly when Mr. Sinatra and "his people" always pushed this line.  Was it during the 1940's when he was either the most popular or the second most popular (behind Bing Crosby) male singer in the country?  Was it during the 1950's when, following his From Here To Eternity comeback, his recordings were perhaps even more popular than ever and he was a regular presence on radio, television, nightclubs, concert stages and in films?  Was it during the 1960's when, despite the youth culture shift in the music business, he was still hitting the record charts with songs like "That's Life", "Strangers In The Night", "It Was a Very Good Year", "Something Stupid" and "My Way"?  Was it during the 1970's when, after returning from his "retirement", no one really expected his records to make the pop charts any longer and yet he still managed to do so towards the end of that decade with "Theme From New York, New York"?

I'm a Sinatra fan and I've quite frankly never heard this "line" that was "always pushed", so I'm curious where and when this notion comes from.

http://www.billboard.com/artist/302382/frank-sinatra/chart?page=3&f=379

http://www.billboard.com/artist/383540/beatles/chart?page=1&f=379

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On ‎07‎/‎11‎/‎2015‎ ‎01‎:‎51‎:‎29, duaneiac said:

Hmmmm . . .  I'm wondering exactly when Mr. Sinatra and "his people" always pushed this line.  Was it during the 1940's when he was either the most popular or the second most popular (behind Bing Crosby) male singer in the country?  Was it during the 1950's when, following his From Here To Eternity comeback, his recordings were perhaps even more popular than ever and he was a regular presence on radio, television, nightclubs, concert stages and in films?  Was it during the 1960's when, despite the youth culture shift in the music business, he was still hitting the record charts with songs like "That's Life", "Strangers In The Night", "It Was a Very Good Year", "Something Stupid" and "My Way"?  Was it during the 1970's when, after returning from his "retirement", no one really expected his records to make the pop charts any longer and yet he still managed to do so towards the end of that decade with "Theme From New York, New York"?

I'm a Sinatra fan and I've quite frankly never heard this "line" that was "always pushed", so I'm curious where and when this notion comes from.

Yeah, it's really the other way round; record companies ALWAYS want hit records; that's how they make money. But when you're dealing with an old-timer like Sinatra, you have to stop trying to push the market, because the market ain't interested. Best you can do with an old guy or lady is maybe get a fluke hit single, perhaps as a result of prodding it into an advert or the theme for a successful TV series. With comebacks, the market is ALWAYS in charge and the trick of being an A&R man is being at one with the market. Few are, because it's probably a LOT easier sticking to the latest no-talent artists and their latest things.

But Arthur Prysock managed it in the seventies because he and Hymie Weiss realised that Barry White was only an imitator of Prysock and that Arthur was miles better, so he got some hit singles and albums out of the late disco thing. In fact, Weiss reopened Old Town Records specifically for that purpose. But despite being better, Prysock didn't outsell White.

And the Acid Jazz thing gave a lot of jazz musicians second and, according to Lou Donaldson, much more financially rewarding careers in the eighties and nineties, well after that kind of Soul Jazz was dead with the black public. Not, I think, hit singles, or even hit albums, even though the records sold a good deal better than they had before, but a hell of a lot of very well paid gigs all over the world, where they'd never been before.

But there again, did Frank Sinatra ever run short of well paid gigs? I suspect not.

MG

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I would hope that Prysock got mad large residuals. If not, grrrrr.......

Probably worth noting that although Sinatra's Top 40 presences were periodic, his airplay was not. There used to be a whole lot of stations that played "Adult Pop" and Sinatra's presence there was pretty much always. Those Reprise albums - the album albums, not the singles albums, were not going unheard, nor were the records by the likes of Al Martino, Jerry Vale, Matt Munro, all those guys. But Top 40 was more than sales, Top 40 was STARDOM, and you know how that goes, mo' money for mo' peoples, yeah yeah yeah right on.

"New York New York" sucks, as Sinatra Song and as otherwise. "This Town" is the real deal. Both were hits, but the sucky one has become the iconic one. Go figure.

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, JSngry said:

 

I would hope that Prysock got mad large residuals. If not, grrrrr.......

 

Not sure what residuals are, but he got a lot of work out of that ad. Not sure Hymie Weiss did. 'Here's to good friends' (a mixed album with some great stuff - including the ad - and some not so - a bit like Sinatra's :)) was an Old Town production, the final one, but released on MCA with an Old Town logo on the back sleeve, dominating the teeny MCA logo (see attachment). It wasn't a hit album but HAD to have sold well. But I bet MCA copped the money. Well, maybe not; everyone says there were no flies on Hymie Weiss.

MG

Arthur Prysock heres to good friends back.jpg

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Residuals are a standard part of a jingle contract where you get so much per airing. Kinda like royalties for record sales, only residuals seem to be paid with far more consistency and integrity. But unless AP got royally screwed, he should have made big bucks off of the residuals from those ads, because there was a whole series of them, and Lowenbrau rode a wave of popular consumption behind them. It was a very effective campaign.

Pretty sure that the jingle got popular first, and then the record company decided to make the record.

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As I remember it, in the liner notes to a CD compilation of songs from Mr. Prysock's Milestone recordings, there was this story.  After Mr. Prysock's many years in the business and after a couple of albums for Milestone, there was frustration that he had never been nominated for a Grammy.  This was during the early to mid 1980's when singers such as Tony Bennett, Mel Torme, Johnny Mathis and others were regular contenders for Best Male Pop Vocal (or whatever the category is called).  The decision was made that there was less competition in the Best Pop Vocal Duet category, so on his next album they strategically included a couple of tracks in which he sang with some female vocalist whose name I forget (I'd never heard of her before or since).  It worked and they got a Grammy nomination the next time around in that category but did not win.

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On ‎15‎/‎11‎/‎2015‎ ‎17‎:‎31‎:‎11, duaneiac said:

As I remember it, in the liner notes to a CD compilation of songs from Mr. Prysock's Milestone recordings, there was this story.  After Mr. Prysock's many years in the business and after a couple of albums for Milestone, there was frustration that he had never been nominated for a Grammy.  This was during the early to mid 1980's when singers such as Tony Bennett, Mel Torme, Johnny Mathis and others were regular contenders for Best Male Pop Vocal (or whatever the category is called).  The decision was made that there was less competition in the Best Pop Vocal Duet category, so on his next album they strategically included a couple of tracks in which he sang with some female vocalist whose name I forget (I'd never heard of her before or since).  It worked and they got a Grammy nomination the next time around in that category but did not win.

I guess the singer was Betty Joplin, who was Arthur and Red Prysock's regular second string singer with the band, and had a few tracks with Arthur on both of his first 2 Milestone albums.

It's not surprising you never heard of her otherwise. She wasn't on his third and final Milestone, issued in 1988, and she wasn't with the band when I saw them in 1990. So she never got that big break through working with him.

 

On ‎15‎/‎11‎/‎2015‎ ‎17‎:‎04‎:‎42, JSngry said:

Residuals are a standard part of a jingle contract where you get so much per airing. Kinda like royalties for record sales, only residuals seem to be paid with far more consistency and integrity. But unless AP got royally screwed, he should have made big bucks off of the residuals from those ads, because there was a whole series of them, and Lowenbrau rode a wave of popular consumption behind them. It was a very effective campaign.

Pretty sure that the jingle got popular first, and then the record company decided to make the record.

Thanks Jim. I assume the composer gets the same residuals as the singer or whatever. And that it's the same for an ad on Japanese TV - Nat Adderley waxed poetic on his Chiaroscuro LP of the 1994 Floating Jazz Festival about 'Work song' being his favourite tune, because it was used for a Japanese TV ad, almost audibly rubbing his hands in glee!

Yes, I'm pretty sure the ad was popular first, then the LP was done. I'm pretty sure he was paid, too, because he did the song when I saw him in 1990 and if he'd been screwed, I suspect he wouldn't have bothered. But he never rubbed his hands in glee :)

On the consistency and integrity issue, of course, it's not the TV company wot pays, but the firm whose products are being advertised. The TV company would probably have to do the accounting, though, so that would make it honest.

MG

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I think it's the ad agency who pays the residuals. They would be the producers of the spots, not the sponsor. The sponsor is the one who buys the time, and I think the ad agency gets paid based on how many times the spot airs?

Not really sure about this, haven't done it myself, but back in the days when Dallas was Jingle City, I'd hear talk about it.

Here's a primer (I guess) if you want to know more...I don't. :g

http://www.rmaweb.org/?p=356

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Thanks Jim, though it doesn't cover TV ads. But if it's still the number of times an ad airs, that'll be a lot.

Jimmy Smith had a wonderful ad using his Verve recording of 'Organ grinder swing' a good few years ago. It was for a Citroen car, which smashed through a plate of glass, exactly timed with Grady Tate's kicking cymbal stroke! I've searched for that ad on YouTube in vain.

MG

Hm... perhaps it was a Renault...

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Sneaking off to make a cuppa reminded me; Etta James had ads with both the A and B sides of a record. 'At last' was used for some kind of ladies' hair stuff (who notices what's being advertised when Etta James is singing 'At last' anyway?) and 'I just wanna make love to you' was used for a Levi's Jeans ad. I dare say that's the ONLY tie an A and B side of a record have been used for an ad.

Etta's version of 'I just wanna make love to you' was a significant rip of Arthur Prysock's recording of the song from 1958, but I've got to say, much as I love both Arthur and Etta, Arthur's version would NOT have worked with the Levis ad.

MG

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  • 2 weeks later...

I thought it was said 'somewhere', that the reason Sinatra had very, very moderate 45 sales was that 'his songs were too good for the top 40' or some such reason. And of course he always introduced 'Something' as the best love song Lennon and McCartney ever wrote.....'something in the way that broad moves....attracts me like no other dame'..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crxcy5nmaec

Edited by robertoart
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3 hours ago, robertoart said:

I thought it was said 'somewhere', that the reason Sinatra had very, very moderate 45 sales was that 'his songs were too good for the top 40' or some such reason. And of course he always introduced 'Something' as the best love song Lennon and McCartney ever wrote.....'something in the way that broad moves....attracts me like no other dame'..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crxcy5nmaec

Ha. Koo koo....

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  • 2 years later...
On 10/10/2015 at 5:43 PM, alankin said:

MI0003725595.jpg?partner=allrovi.com

http://www.allmusic.com/album/come-spy-with-us-the-secret-agent-handbook-mw0002622093

 

1. A Man Alone (Theme From "The Ipcress File") - JOHN BARRY & HIS ORCHESTRA (1965 UK 7" single on CBS Records 201747, A)
2. Deadlier Than The Male (Title Song From The Film "Deadlier Than The Male" - THE WALKER BROTHERS (1966 UK 7" single on Philips BF 137, A)
3. Arabesque (From The Film "Arabesque") - THE VENTURES (1966 USA 7" single on Dolton 321, A)
4. The Look Of Love (Theme From "Casino Royale") - DUSTY SPRINGFIELD (1967 UK 7" single on Philips BF 1557, A)
5. Theme From "Danger Man" - THE RED PRICE COMBO with Orchestra (1962 UK 7" single on Parlophone 45-R 4789, A)
6. The Silencers (From The Movie "The Silencers") - VICKI CARR (1966 USA 7" single on Liberty 55857, A)
7. Secret Agent Man - AL CAIOLA (from the 1965 US Stereo LP "Al Caiola...Sounds For Spies And Private Eyes" on United Artists UAS 6435)
8. Who Needs Forever (Theme From "The Deadly Affair") - ASTRUD GILBERTO (1966 US 7" single on Verve 10457, A)
9. Theme From The Man From Uncle - THE CHALLENGERS (1965 USA 7" single on GNOP Crescendo 362, A)
10. The Last Of The Secret Agents (From The Film "The Last Of The Secret Agents") - NANCY SINATRA (1966 USA 7" single on Reprise 0461, A)
11. Mission: Impossible - LALO SCHIFRIN & HIS ORCHESTRA (1968 USA 7" single on Dot 17059, A)
12. Dr. Goldfoot And The Bikini Machine (Theme From The Film) - THE SUPREMES (1965 USA 7" single on American International 65-1335, A)
13. Our Man Flint - BILLY STRANGE (1966 USA 7" single on GNP Crescendo 367, A)
14. Wednesday's Child (Theme From "The Quiller Memorandum") - MATT MONRO (1967 USA 7" single on Capitol 5823, A)
15. Theme From "Get Smart" - BOB CRANE, HIS DRUMS & ORCHESTRA (1968 USA 7" single on Epic 5-10038, B-side of "Happy Feet")
16. We Should've (Theme From "Modesty Blaise") - CLEO LANE & RAY ELLINGTON (1966 UK 7" single on Fontana TF 704, A)
17. The James Bond Theme (Dr No) - JOHNNY & THE HURRICANES (1963 USA 7" single on Big Top 3148, A)
18. Burke's Law Theme - WYNTON KELLY (1963 UK 7" single on Verve VS 518, A)
19. Where The Bullets Fly - SUSAN MAUGHAN (1966 UK 7" single on Philips BF 1518, A)
20. High Wire (Theme From "Danger Man") - BRIAN FAHEY & HIS ORCHESTRA (from the 1967 UK LP "Time For TV" on Columbia Studio 2 TWO 175)
21. Bye-Bye (Theme From "Peter Gunn") - SARAH VAUGHAN (1965 USA 7" single on Mercury 72417, B-side of "The Pawnbroker")
22. Theme From "Where The Spies Are" - JIMMY SMITH (1966 USA 7" single on Verve VK 10382, A)
23. The Liquidator - SHIRLEY BASSEY (1966 UK 7" single on Columbia DB 7811, A)
24. I Spy - ROLAND SHAW & HIS ORCHESTRA (from the 1966 UK LP "Themes For Secret Agents" on Decca Phase 4 Stereo PFS 4094)
25. Come Spy With Me - SMOKEY ROBINSON & THE MIRACLES (1967 USA 7" single on Tamla T 54145, A)

This one is now at Amazon's lowest price - $10.99 prime

https://www.amazon.com/Come-Spy-Us-Secret-Songbook/dp/B00IC5IJNK

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